We dont have to become the apocalypse preppers

R. Hartono

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Second Coming will be like "the days of Noah" (Matthew 24:37) and "the days of Lot"
Nobody knows the timing of the Rapture as it will be like the days of Noah/ Lot, so the world will mourn because they shall be left behind.
Rev 1:7
“Look, he is coming with the clouds,”and “every eye will see him, even those who pierced him”; and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”
13 “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.

The Parable of foolish virgins clearly indicates that Jesus will fetch His bride at the unknown hour.
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But at the 2nd coming of Christ there will be no more virgins awaiting Him but the DEVIL AND KINGS OF THE WORLD WILL KNOW THE DAY as they will be prepared for the Armageddon battle.

Rev 16 13
Then I saw three impure spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 They are demonic spirits that perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the *GREAT DAY of God Almighty. *GREAT DAY = 2ND COMING OF CHRIST
Rev 19:19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army.

Rev 19:21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.


Jesus will return from heaven with His raptured saints after the Feast of the Lamb, to battle at Armageddon.


Rev 19:11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war.
12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself.
13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.
14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.

This Army of Jesus are the resurrected early church and the raptured end time wise virgins who will judge the angels and the wicked people.
1 Cor 6:2 Or do you not know that the Lord's people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases?
3 Do you not know that we will judge angels?

JESUS WILL RULE THE NATIONS AFTER ARMAGEDDON BATTLE
Rev 19:15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.”
 
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jgr

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Matthew 16:18 . . . upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

It is sometimes thought that this means that the Church cannot be physically overcome by evil forces.

But note that just as Roman emperors and Satan were allowed by God to physically overcome some Christians in the first century AD (e.g. Revelation 2:10), so during the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will be allowed by God to prevail physically against Christians (not in hiding) in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4, Matthew 24:9-13). And there are no Christians outside of the Church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

Matthew 16:18 meant that the literal gates of Hades would not prevail against the "rock" in Matthew 16:18, which is Jesus Christ Himself (Matthew 16:16b,18b), the rock/stone on whom the Church/New Covenant Israel is built (Ephesians 2:20, Matthew 16:18b; 1 Peter 2:6), the rock/stone who was rejected and crucified (Romans 9:33, Acts 4:11; 1 Peter 2:4,8), the same rock/Christ who followed Old Covenant Israel/the church in the wilderness (1 Corinthians 10:4-5, cf. Acts 7:38), and the same rock/Christ revered by New Covenant Israel/the Church (1 Peter 2:4-10).

That is, Matthew 16:18 was prophesying of when the literal gates of Hades would not prevail against Jesus Christ (Psalms 107:16), when, after His physical resurrection, He went down and liberated the souls of the dead Old Testament believers from Hades (1 Peter 4:6; 1 Peter 3:18c-19, Ephesians 4:8-9, Hebrews 11:13-16, Hebrews 12:22-24).
Christ's descriptions of the gates of hell and the church in Matthew 16:18 are exclusively metaphorical and spiritual.

It is against the church, a spiritual edifice in whose spiritual foundation Christ is the spiritual chief corner stone (1 Peter 2:6-7), that Christ declares that the gates of hell will not prevail.

Literal gates do not prevail, for literal gates are stationary and immovable. Christ is metaphorically describing the spiritual opposition waged by hell as the gates of hell, and declaring that their spiritual opposition (which, unlike literal gates, is active, relentless, and determined) will still not overcome the church.

The church is a spiritual edifice (1 Peter 2:4-7). Literal gates are incongruous with a spiritual edifice and a spiritual conflict (Ephesians 6:12), but the spiritual gates of hell wage incessant spiritual war against the spiritual edifice of the church.

But Christ declares that they will not prevail.

The church will be the ongoing and ultimate victor in its spiritual battle against the spiritual gates of hell.
 
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R. Hartono said in post #61:

Nobody knows the timing of the Rapture as it will be like the days of Noah/ Lot . . .

Note that Matthew 24:37-41 refers to "the coming of the Son of man" (Matthew 24:37,39), which Jesus Christ had just finished saying will not occur until "immediately after" the Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-30).

Matthew 24:37-41 means that non-Christians will have no idea that most of them are going to be killed (by Jesus Christ Himself: Revelation 19:15-21, Isaiah 63:3) at Jesus' future, Second Coming, until it actually happens. For they could think that the Second Coming had already occurred with the coming into power of the future Antichrist's miracle-working False Prophet (of Revelation 13:13-14, Revelation 19:20), who could claim to be Jesus returned (via "reincarnation"). And just as the people of the world shortly before Noah's Flood, even though they could see or hear about Noah building his huge ark, no doubt rejected the idea that YHWH God had the power to actually cause a global flood which would kill them, so non-Christians at the end of the future Tribulation could reject the idea that YHWH has the power to actually defeat them.

For during the future Tribulation's second half, the world will see the power of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) and his fallen angels (Revelation 12:9); and the power which Lucifer will give to the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") to take over the entire earth (Revelation 13:4-8), and to utterly revile YHWH year after year without being destroyed (Revelation 13:5-6, Daniel 11:36); and to physically overcome and kill people in the Church (not in hiding) in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13). And the world will see the amazing miraculous powers which Lucifer will give to the Antichrist's False Prophet, by which he will be able to even call fire down from heaven in the sight of everyone (Revelation 13:13, cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:9).

And near the end of the future Tribulation, the world will see the Antichrist's defeat of YHWH's amazingly-powerful Two Witnesses (Revelation 11:3-9), after which defeat the world will rejoice and make merry and send gifts to each other because the Two Witnesses had been sending plagues on the world (Revelation 11:10,6). And even though those plagues will be shortly followed by even more plagues from YHWH, poured out directly from heaven (Revelation 16, the Tribulation's final stage), the people of the world will not lose their confidence that YHWH can still be defeated. For after almost all of the plagues from heaven are over, the world will see the amazing miraculous powers of some unclean spirits, convincing the world's armies to gather together for a battle against YHWH (Revelation 16:13-14, Revelation 19:19). And so the world could come to that battle at the very end of the Tribulation with the same careless attitude as some people at the start of the American Civil War, who held picnics at the expected first battleground of Bull Run/Manassas in order to watch the battle and what they expected to be a quick and easy victory.

R. Hartono said in post #61:

[Mt. 25] 13 “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.

Note that in the Bible, when Christians are told to "watch" for Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Mark 13:35-37), the original Greek word (G1127) translated as "watch" does not mean to stare with their eyes hoping to see someone appear at any moment. Instead, it means "to keep awake" (Strong's Greek Dictionary), like in Matthew 26:40, 1 Thessalonians 5:6, and Mark 13:36-37.

Christians are to keep spiritually awake as they wait for Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming. For if they fall spiritually asleep, that is, fall into backsliding, there is no assurance that they will recover their right relationship with Jesus before His Second Coming (Matthew 24:48-51), just as if they fall physically asleep waiting for something to happen, there is no assurance that they will wake back up in time to see it happen.

During the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18, Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, Christians will have to "watch" (stay awake, spiritually) for Jesus Christ's Second Coming (Matthew 24:42-43, Matthew 25:13, Luke 21:36), which Jesus has just finished saying will not occur until "immediately after" the Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6). For if a Christian is not "watching" (staying awake, spiritually) for the Second Coming, it will take that Christian by surprise (compare the if principle of Revelation 3:3b). And that Christian will lose his or her salvation at that time because of such things as unrepentant sin (Luke 12:45-46, Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27), or unrepentant laziness (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a, Romans 2:6-8), or apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12b).

Also, even when Christians know the truth that Jesus Christ's Second Coming will not occur until "immediately after" the future Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31), they still need to live each day knowing that any of them could die at any time (Luke 12:20, James 4:14).
 
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R. Hartono said in post #61:

[Mt. 25] 13 “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.

Note that the same idea is found in Matthew 24:36,42,44, which refers to Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Matthew 24:37,42,44), which He had just finished saying will not happen until "immediately after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29-31). So in Matthew 24:42,44, Jesus can mean that only if Christians do not watch (stay awake, spiritually) during the future Tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18, then the Second Coming will happen at an hour they do not know/think not (compare the if principle of Revelation 3:3b). In the context of Matthew 24:36,42,44, Jesus suggests that it is possible for Christians to know when the Second Coming will occur and to watch for it (Matthew 24:43-44a; 1 Thessalonians 5:4). Also, the rapture (the gathering together) of the Church will occur at the Second Coming (Matthew 24:30-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8).

Also, Jesus says "of that day and hour knoweth no man" (Matthew 24:36); He does not say "of that day and hour no man will know". So it is possible that at a certain point in our future, some Christians will come to know the date (as in the year, month, and day) of Jesus' Second Coming before it happens. Also, if we mistakenly think that Jesus can come back today or tomorrow (as is sometimes claimed by the pre-tribulation and partial preterist views), then how can we also claim that He will come back when nobody thinks He will (Matthew 24:44)?

Also, compare the following: "of that day and hour knoweth no man" (Matthew 24:36), "the things of God knoweth no man" (1 Corinthians 2:11). If we claim that the first verse means that no man will ever know the date of Jesus Christ's Second Coming until it happens, then to be consistent we would have to also claim that the second verse means that no man, not even Christians, can know the things of God until the Second Coming. But who would say that? For God's Holy Spirit can currently reveal to Christians the things of God (1 Corinthians 2:12-13). He can currently guide them into all truth and show them what will happen in the future (John 16:13), including the date of Jesus' Second Coming. For, again, Jesus suggests that it is possible for Christians to know when the Second Coming will occur and to watch for it (Matthew 24:43-44a; 1 Thessalonians 5:4). Also, what Amos 3:7 says would include the Second Coming: that is, surely God the Father will not send Jesus back without having first revealed to some Christians the secret of the date of the Second Coming.

Jesus could return on the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in a future, third Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15, Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15).

R. Hartono said in post #61:

Jesus will return from heaven with His raptured saints . . .

Note that Jesus Christ's coming for His saints, and with His saints, will occur at the same Second Coming. For 1 Thessalonians 3:13 and 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 show that at Jesus' Second Coming, the souls of all obedient dead Christians of all times will be brought down from the third heaven with Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:14-15). And their souls will descend to the earth, and their physical bodies will resurrect/rise from their graves (1 Thessalonians 4:16). Then they and all Christians who will survive the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 on the earth, those who will still be "alive and remain", will be raptured up high into the air above the places all around the globe where they will be (1 Thessalonians 4:17a). And then they will be gathered together from the sky (the first heaven) all around the globe (Matthew 24:31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1) to the one place in the sky where the returned Jesus will be (1 Thessalonians 4:17b), which will be in the clouds above Jerusalem, before He descends to set His feet on the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:4-5, Acts 1:11-12).

It is because of this Second-Coming rapture into the sky, and then the gathering to where in the sky Jesus Christ will be (and then the marriage of the obedient part of the Church there to Jesus: Revelation 19:7-8, Matthew 25:1-12), that the obedient part of the Church will already be with Jesus when He subsequently descends from the sky (the first heaven) to the earth (Revelation 19:14, Revelation 17:14, Zechariah 14:5c,4). Jesus and the obedient part of the Church will then physically reign on the earth for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).
 
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jgr said in post #62:

Literal gates do not prevail . . .

Note that literal gates can prevail, in the sense of prevailing defensively against an attack. Indeed, gates are defensive structures.

But the literal gates of Hades failed to prevail defensively against the Lord Jesus Christ after His resurrection:

Psalms 107:16 For he hath broken the gates of brass, and cut the bars of iron in sunder.

Ephesians 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

1 Peter 3:18 ¶For Christ [was] . . . quickened [resurrected] by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison . . .

1 Peter 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

jgr said in post #62:

Christ is metaphorically describing the spiritual opposition waged by hell as the gates of hell, and declaring that their spiritual opposition (which, unlike literal gates, is active, relentless, and determined) will still not overcome the church.

Daniel 12:7b shows that at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming, He will come to a Church which will have been completely defeated physically by the Antichrist. For during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign, he will be allowed by God to make war against the Church and to overcome it physically in every nation (Revelation 13:5-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13). It is only when the Antichrist has completely broken all of the physical power of the Church that the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 will end (Daniel 12:7b), and Jesus' Second Coming will immediately occur, at which time He will physically resurrect and rapture (gather together) the Church (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), of all times. And at His Second Coming, Jesus Christ will tread the winepress of God's wrath alone (Isaiah 63:3, Revelation 19:15-21), and so He/God will get all of the glory for defeating the power of evil on the earth (Deuteronomy 32:39-43). For He/God will not share this glory with the Church (cf. Isaiah 42:8-14, Isaiah 26:18).
 
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R. Hartono

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It is because of this Second-Coming rapture into the sky, and then the gathering to where in the sky Jesus Christ will be (and then the marriage of the obedient part of the Church there to Jesus: Revelation 19:7-8, Matthew 25:1-12),
Just wait and see.
 
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jgr

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Note that literal gates can prevail, in the sense of prevailing defensively against an attack. Indeed, gates are defensive structures.

Matthew 16:18
From the Greek, translated "prevail":
Strong's Concordance
katischuó: to overpower
GRK: ᾅδου οὐ κατισχύσουσιν αὐτῆς
NAS: of Hades will not overpower it.

"Overpower" describes animate offensive, not inanimate defensive, action. Literal gates are inanimate and immobile. Christ's declaration is metaphorical and spiritual.

Psalms 107:16 For he hath broken the gates of brass, and cut the bars of iron in sunder.

Ephesians 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

1 Peter 3:18 ¶For Christ [was] . . . quickened [resurrected] by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison . . .

1 Peter 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

All incontrovertibly true, but with no reference to the "gates of hell" or the church, which are seen in Christ's declaration in Matthew 16:18.

Is Psalms 107:16 literal?

Daniel 12:7b shows that at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming, He will come to a Church which will have been completely defeated physically by the Antichrist. For during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign, he will be allowed by God to make war against the Church and to overcome it physically in every nation (Revelation 13:5-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13). It is only when the Antichrist has completely broken all of the physical power of the Church that the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 will end (Daniel 12:7b), and Jesus' Second Coming will immediately occur, at which time He will physically resurrect and rapture (gather together) the Church (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), of all times. And at His Second Coming, Jesus Christ will tread the winepress of God's wrath alone (Isaiah 63:3, Revelation 19:15-21), and so He/God will get all of the glory for defeating the power of evil on the earth (Deuteronomy 32:39-43). For He/God will not share this glory with the Church (cf. Isaiah 42:8-14, Isaiah 26:18).

Unrelated to the spiritual conflict between the gates of hell and the church, to which Christ refers in Matthew 16:18. Temporally and physically, the church always has and will experience tribulation (John 16:33, Acts 14:22, 2 Corinthians 1:4, 2 Thessalonians 1:4), and always has and will experience antichrists (1 John 2:18); but spiritually, always has and will survive, and spiritually, always has and will emerge victorious (1 Corinthians 15:57, 1 John 5:4).

The spiritual gates of hell never have and never will prevail against and overcome the spiritual living stones of the spiritual edifice of the church which Christ is continuously constructing (1 Peter 2:4-7, Matthew 16:18).
 
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jgr said in post #67:

Matthew 16:18
From the Greek, translated "prevail":
Strong's Concordance
katischuó: to overpower

In Matthew 16:18, the original Greek word (katischuo: G2729) translated as "prevail" is derived from two words (kata: G2596, and ischuo: G2480). "Kata" can mean "against" (Matthew 12:30), and "ischuo" can mean "be of strength" (Hebrews 9:17). So "katischuo" can simply refer to something having "strength against" something else, such as an attack. So gates that have strength to withstand an attack can be said to "prevail"/"katischuo" against that attack. But the gates of Hades did not prevail against Jesus Christ's, the "Rock's", attack upon them (Psalms 107:16; 1 Corinthians 10:4b, Matthew 16:18b).

Indeed, that is why all obedient believers who died during Old Testament times are now part of the Church in heaven (Hebrews 11:13-16, Hebrews 12:22-24). For now there are no believers outside of the Church (Ephesians 4:4-6). And 1 Peter 4:6, 1 Peter 3:18c-19, and Ephesians 4:9 show that there was a post-resurrection descent of Jesus Christ into Hades to preach the fulfillment of the Gospel (of 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) to the souls of the dead in Hades, after which preaching, Jesus ascended into heaven with all of the souls of those in Hades who had died in faith (Ephesians 4:8-9, Hebrews 11:13-16, Hebrews 12:22-24).

jgr said in post #67:

Christ's declaration is metaphorical and spiritual.

Note that Matthew 16:18b, like Psalms 107:16, can refer to literal gates of the literal hell Hades, also called Sheol.

Similarly, note that in Job 33:22, the original Hebrew word (H7845) translated as "the grave" can mean "the pit" (Job 33:28,30), as in the extremely-deep pit which is in hell/sheol (Isaiah 14:15, Psalms 30:3, Job 11:8). In the sides of this pit are the graves of the conscious souls of the unsaved dead (Isaiah 14:15,9-10, Ezekiel 32:21-23), who experience pain there (Psalms 116:3). This pit is in the "nether" (the lowermost, Hebrew: tachtiy, H8482) parts of the earth (Ezekiel 32:18-32, Psalms 63:9), and so it could reach down to the center of the earth (in the spiritual dimension). And it could continue past the center of the earth and continue on in a straight line up the other side of the earth almost to the surface, so that the pit is "bottomless" in that its lowest point is empty space at the center of the earth (in the spiritual dimension). Satan/Lucifer will be cast into this literal "bottomless pit" by an angel at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:3, Isaiah 14:15,12).

The Bottomless Pit may have a physical manifestation as a deep underground cavern. The top of this cavern could be deep under the city of Abadan (in Iran), just as the Bottomless Pit is under the angel Abaddon (Revelation 9:11). At one point during the first half of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, strange locust-like beings will swarm up from the Bottomless Pit to torment (but not kill) mankind with excruciating stings for five months (Revelation 9:2-10).

The Bottomless Pit could have a downward-winding spiral pathway like that in the Guggenheim Museum in New York City. But instead of artworks displayed on the outer wall of the pathway, there could be the graves/prison cells (1 Peter 3:19) of the conscious souls/spirits of the unsaved dead.
 
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jgr said in post #67:

Temporally and physically, the church always has and will experience tribulation (John 16:33, Acts 14:22, 2 Corinthians 1:4, 2 Thessalonians 1:4) . . .

But note that Revelation chapters 6 to 22 are still future to us, because they are about "things which must be hereafter" (Revelation 4:1b). And just as Jesus' Christ's Second Coming in Revelation 19:7 to 20:3 has never been fulfilled, for nowhere in history books do we find its fulfillment, so the highly-detailed events of the preceding Tribulation in Revelation chapters 6 to 18 have never been fulfilled, for nowhere in history books do we find their fulfillment. Similarly, even this Tribulation as it is described in Matthew 24 cannot have happened yet, because Jesus' Second Coming must occur immediately after this Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31).

jgr said in post #67:

. . . and always has and will experience antichrists (1 John 2:18) . . .

Any person is an antichrist who denies that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ (1 John 2:22), or who denies that Jesus is the human/divine Son of God (1 John 2:22b), or who denies that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). The spirit of antichrist which will animate the future Antichrist has been working since the first century AD (1 John 4:3; 2 Thessalonians 2:7a), animating many antichrists since that time (2 John 1:7).

But the existence of many antichrists (1 John 2:18) does not contradict that there will be an individual man (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4,9, Revelation 13:4-18) who is commonly called the Antichrist; just as on the side of good, the existence of many sons of God (John 1:12) does not contradict that there is an individual man, Jesus Christ of Nazareth, who is the Son of God (John 20:31).

Also, the idea of the individual-man Antichrist does not have to be explicitly referred to in the Bible as "the Antichrist" in order for it to be true and supported by the Bible; just as, for example, the idea of the Trinity does not have to be explicitly referred to in scripture as "the Trinity" in order for it to be true and supported by the Bible (e.g. Matthew 28:19, John 1:1,14, Acts 5:3-4).

The man commonly called the Antichrist will be the fulfillment of the individual "man of sin" (2 Thessalonians 2:3), who will sit (at least one time) in a future, third Jewish temple building in Jerusalem and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). He will fulfill the individual "man" aspect of the "beast" who will come (Revelation 13:18), and bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon), and himself (Revelation 13:4,8, Revelation 12:9). He will rule the earth for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:5-10, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7), and will have a miracle-working False Prophet (Revelation 19:20, Revelation 16:13), who by amazing, Satanic miracles (2 Thessalonians 2:9b), such as calling fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13), will deceive the people of the world into worshipping a speaking (possibly an android) image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:15), and receiving a mark of the Antichrist's name or gematrial name-number (666) on their right hand or forehead (Revelation 13:16-18). The Antichrist and his False Prophet will ultimately be cast into the lake of fire at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Revelation 19:20), while at that time Satan will be bound in the Bottomless Pit for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-3). None of these things has happened yet.

Any mistaken teaching which claims that the Antichrist has already come and gone could be employed in our future by the real Antichrist to fool some Christians into thinking that he is not the Antichrist.

The idea of a future, individual-man Antichrist was correctly recognized in the Bible by the Church from early on. Irenaeus (born c. 140 AD) used the term: "speaking of Antichrist, [Paul] says, 'who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped'" (Against Heresies 3:6:5; 2 Thessalonians 2:4); "...by means of the events which shall occur in the time of Antichrist is it shown that he, being an apostate and a robber, is anxious to be adored as God" (Against Heresies 5:25:1; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36, Revelation 13:8); "...when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem" (Against Heresies 5:30:4b; Revelation 13:5; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7); "...the number of the name of the beast ... the name of Antichrist" (Against Heresies 5:30:1; Revelation 13:17c-18).

The gematrial numerical values of the letters in the Antichrist's personal name will add up to six hundred and sixty-six (Revelation 13:17c-18).

jgr said in post #67:

. . . but spiritually, always has and will survive, and spiritually, always has and will emerge victorious (1 Corinthians 15:57, 1 John 5:4).

But note that no Bible verse says or requires that every individual in the Church will emerge victorious, instead of, for example, being deceived into committing apostasy.

Some people deny any such possibility, and point to Matthew 24:24. But note that there the original Greek does not say: "if it were possible", in the sense of it not being possible. Instead, it says: "if possible", meaning that false Christs and false prophets will in our future perform great miracles by the power of Satan (2 Thessalonians 2:9, Revelation 13:13-18, Revelation 19:20), as part of his intention to deceive as many of the elect as possible. The Bible nowhere says that it is impossible for any elect person to ever be deceived. Instead, Jesus Christ had started out in Matthew 24 by specifically warning the elect: "Take heed that no man deceive you" (Matthew 24:4), meaning that it is possible for the elect to be deceived, if they do not take heed to Jesus' warning regarding great-miracle-working false Christs and false prophets who will appear in our future (Matthew 24:4-5,23-25, Revelation 13:13-18, Revelation 19:20).

The elect can also be deceived in other ways, whether before they become Christians (Titus 3:3, Romans 7:11), or after (1 John 3:7; 1 Corinthians 6:9; 1 Corinthians 15:33, Galatians 6:7, Ephesians 5:6; 2 Thessalonians 2:3). The apostle Paul warns the elect: "The Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils" (1 Timothy 4:1). The time will come when some "shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables" (2 Timothy 4:4). For it is possible for Christians to commit apostasy, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12b).

The fact that Christians can be deceived into committing apostasy does not mean that Satan is stronger than God, or that God would for no reason abandon a Christian, but means that the principle of the "deceivableness of unrighteousness" (2 Thessalonians 2:10, Proverbs 17:4a) applies even to Christians.

That is, one way that a Christian could be brought to the point where he commits apostasy would be if he finds a particular sin to be very pleasurable, so pleasurable and so fulfilling (in the short term) that he continues in it over time until his heart becomes hardened by the deceitfulness of sin (Hebrews 3:13), to where his love for God grows cold because of the abundance of iniquity (Matthew 24:12), to where he quenches the Spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:19), to where he sears his conscience as with a hot iron (1 Timothy 4:2), to where he begins to listen to the lies of demons and latch onto them, to the point where he departs from the faith (1 Timothy 4:1). In a wrong desire to continue in their lusts without repentance, Christians can reach the point where they are no longer able to endure the sound doctrine of the Bible, and instead seek out and latch onto other teachings which will help to support them in their lusts (2 Timothy 4:3-4).
 
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jgr

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In Matthew 16:18, the original Greek word (katischuo: G2729) translated as "prevail" is derived from two words (kata: G2596, and ischuo: G2480). "Kata" can mean "against" (Matthew 12:30), and "ischuo" can mean "be of strength" (Hebrews 9:17). So "katischuo" can simply refer to something having "strength against" something else, such as an attack. So gates that have strength to withstand an attack can be said to "prevail"/"katischuo" against that attack. But the gates of Hades did not prevail against Jesus Christ's, the "Rock's", attack upon them (Psalms 107:16; 1 Corinthians 10:4b, Matthew 16:18b).

For some reason, the entirety of what I presented in my previous post did not get transcribed into yours, thus information necessary for fully accurate analysis was omitted. So here it is again:

Matthew 16:18
From the Greek, translated "prevail":
Strong's Concordance
katischuó: to overpower
GRK: ᾅδου οὐ κατισχύσουσιν αὐτῆς
NAS: of Hades will not overpower it.

If you go to the Greek interlinear here, you'll notice that the Greek word translated "prevail" in the KJV is "katischysousin", which is a derivation, or conjugation, of the root word "katischuó". That conjugation is unique to Matthew 16:18.

The NAS version, which is virtually universally acclaimed as the most literally accurate version, translates that conjugation with a word denoting animated offensive action: "overpower".

Nor is it alone. Among all English versions, a clear majority of those that choose to translate using a word other than "prevail", use one of the following words denoting animated offensive action: "overpower", "overcome".

It is evident that Christ was referring to the spiritual attack of the gates of hell upon the church which He is continually building.

But that attack never has, and never will, succeed.
 
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jgr

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But the gates of Hades did not prevail against Jesus Christ's, the "Rock's", attack upon them (Psalms 107:16; 1 Corinthians 10:4b, Matthew 16:18b).

Psalms 107:16
For he hath broken the gates of brass, and cut the bars of iron in sunder.

There is no mention of Christ, no mention of hell, and no mention of Christ's attack upon its gates. The foregoing verses in the chapter describe God's deliverance when His people cried out to Him. The psalmist writes in the past tense, thus what he had observed and experienced had already occurred. The metaphors in verse 16 are partially clarified previously, and verse 16 refers to the entirely of the previous verses in the chapter.

Psalms 107
9 For he satisfieth the longing soul, and filleth the hungry soul with goodness.
10 Such as sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, being bound in affliction and iron;
14 He brought them out of darkness and the shadow of death, and brake their bands in sunder.


Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Christ is referring in this verse not to Himself, but to His church, and not to His attack upon the gates of hell, but spiritually to those gates' attack upon His church.
 
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jgr

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Note that Matthew 16:18b, like Psalms 107:16, can refer to literal gates of the literal hell Hades, also called Sheol.

Some literal questions about Psalms 107:16:
For he hath broken the gates of brass, and cut the bars of iron in sunder.

1. Does God have a handy heavenly hacksaw that He uses to cut the bars of iron?
2. Are the gates of hell composed of both brass gates and iron bars?
3. God is Spirit, and can move above, below, around, and through anything. Why does He need to break and cut anything?
4. Similarly, Satan and his emissaries are spirits with equal mobility. If the gates were intended to confine them, they obviously have not been effective.
5. Who originally built the gates of hell, and what purpose were they intended to serve?
6. God broke (past tense "hath broke") the gates of hell in the psalmist's day. Therefore there is nothing left for Christ to attack.


OK, gotta go take my antipsychotic meds.
 
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jgr said in post #71:

It is evident that Christ was referring to the spiritual attack of the gates of hell upon the church which He is continually building.

Gates are defensive structures. They do not attack. Although they can "overpower" an attack in the sense of having more power than the attack, in the sense of prevailing over the attack and standing their ground.

But the gates of Hades could not prevail against the attack of Jesus Christ against them (Psalms 107:16, Ephesians 4:8-9, 1 Peter 3:19; 1 Peter 4:6).

And yet the future Antichrist will still prevail against the Church:

Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

This shows that the future Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast"), during his literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-10), will be allowed to physically overcome Biblical Christians in every nation (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 14:12-13, Matthew 24:9-13), just as, for example, the Roman emperors and Satan were allowed to physically overcome some Biblical Christians in the first century AD (e.g. Revelation 2:10). There are no Biblical Christians outside of the Church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

But Revelation 13:7-10 does not mean that every person in the Church will be overcome by the future Antichrist. For some in the Church will be in God-protected wilderness places (Revelation 12:6,14-16). And so they will still be "alive and remain" on the earth at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming to be raptured (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17), immediately after the Tribulation (Mark 13:24-27; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

-

For the woman in Revelation 12 represents the Church (which is Israel: Romans 11:1,17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). For she is clothed with the sun (Revelation 12:1) of righteousness (Malachi 4:2) through her faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 3:22), just as later we see the Church clothed with righteousness (Revelation 19:8). And the moon under her feet (Revelation 12:1) represents Satan under her feet (Romans 16:20) as she overcomes him spiritually by her faith in Jesus (Revelation 12:11). And the crown of twelve stars on her head (Revelation 12:1) represents the twelve apostles (of Matthew 10:2-4, Acts 1:16-26) who have been placed over the Church (1 Corinthians 12:28).

Her giving birth to the "man child" and his being caught up to the throne of God (Revelation 12:5) immediately before she flees into the wilderness for a literal 3.5 years (Revelation 12:6) represents the future, mid-tribulation catching up of the 144,000 male-virgins part of the Church in their mortal bodies to the throne of God in heaven (Revelation 14:1,4-5, Textus Receptus), like how Enoch and Elijah were caught up in their mortal bodies to heaven (Hebrews 11:5; 2 Kings 2:11).

Her fleeing into and remaining in a protected wilderness place for a literal 3.5 years (Revelation 12:6,14) represents those in the Church who will flee into and remain in divinely-protected wilderness places during the future Antichrist's literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), which will occur during the latter half of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

The remnant of her seed (Revelation 12:17) represents those in the Church during that time who will not flee into wilderness places, but will remain in the cities and will be persecuted in every nation, being imprisoned and beheaded by the Antichrist (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

Also, Genesis 37:9-10 is not (as is sometimes claimed) being referred to in Revelation 12:1. For in Revelation 12:1, the Church/Israel is not clothed with the man Jacob (Genesis 37:9-10), but with the sun of righteousness (Malachi 4:2) through her faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 3:22), just as later we see the Church/Israel clothed with righteousness (Revelation 19:8, cf. also Revelation 21:2,9,12). Also, the Church/Israel does not have the woman Rachel under her feet (Genesis 37:9-10), but Satan (Romans 16:20), as the Church/Israel overcomes him spiritually by her faith in Jesus (Revelation 12:11). And the Church/Israel does not have Jacob's twelve sons placed over her (Genesis 37:9-10), but the twelve apostles (1 Corinthians 12:28, Matthew 10:2, Acts 1:26), each one of whom will rule over one of her twelve tribes (Matthew 19:28, Luke 22:30).
 
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jgr said in post #72:

The psalmist writes in the past tense, thus what he had observed and experienced had already occurred.

Note that Isaiah 53:5-10 uses the past tense even though it was referring to Jesus Christ's (at that time) future crucifixion for our sins.

Similarly, Psalms 107:3 could refer to the start of the future Millennium (of Revelation 20:4-6).

Psalms 107:17-21 applies to any time that YHWH heals someone from a deadly disease.

Psalms 107:29 was fulfilled by Mark 4:39, for example.

*******

jgr said in post #73:

Does God have a handy heavenly hacksaw that He uses to cut the bars of iron?

He has something better (Revelation 19:15).

jgr said in post #73:

Similarly, Satan and his emissaries are spirits with equal mobility. If the gates were intended to confine them, they obviously have not been effective.

The gates of Hades can be spiritual themselves, and so be able to contain spirits, whether of some fallen angels (2 Peter 2:4) or of some dead humans (Luke 16:23), within Hades.

Similarly, the binding of Satan by an angel in Revelation 20:1-3, at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:3), will involve Satan being bound with a literal, spiritual chain; just as the Bottomless Pit, which at that time Satan will be cast down into and locked within, is a literal, spiritual place.
 
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Gates are defensive structures. They do not attack.
True in the physical realm. Untrue in the spiritual realm. These are spiritual gates. They attack.
They attack but cannot overpower.
They attack but cannot overcome.
Other words used in various Bible versions: conquer, defeat, destroy
They attack but cannot conquer, defeat, or destroy.

These gates attack. But they never prevail. That is a Divine Guarantee.

But the gates of Hades could not prevail against the attack of Jesus Christ against them (Psalms 107:16, Ephesians 4:8-9, 1 Peter 3:19; 1 Peter 4:6).

There is no attack by Christ on the gates of Hades in any of these verses.

And yet the future Antichrist will still prevail against the Church:

Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

This shows that the future Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast"), during his literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-10), will be allowed to physically overcome Biblical Christians in every nation (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 14:12-13, Matthew 24:9-13), just as, for example, the Roman emperors and Satan were allowed to physically overcome some Biblical Christians in the first century AD (e.g. Revelation 2:10). There are no Biblical Christians outside of the Church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

You're again confusing the physical and spiritual realms. Physically, over her lifetime, the church has been overcome countless millions of times in the deaths of her saints at the hands of antichrists. This will continue until Christ returns. Physically, each such death of a saint is a defeat.

But spiritually, each such death of a saint is a victory. For no antichrist can prevail against the soul of any saint. And as the congregation of the saints is the church, Christ has given His Divine Guarantee that nothing including the gates of hell will prevail against her. In contrast, the saints will prevail against Satan and his antichrists "by the blood of the Lamb, and the word of their testimony", even as they experience physical death. (Revelation 12:11)
 
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When will Jesus claim back this earth and establish peace and justice and heal mankind from sorrows and grief ?

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.


Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

.
 
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jgr

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Also, the idea of the individual-man Antichrist does not have to be explicitly referred to in the Bible as "the Antichrist" in order for it to be true and supported by the Bible; just as, for example, the idea of the Trinity does not have to be explicitly referred to in scripture as "the Trinity" in order for it to be true and supported by the Bible (e.g. Matthew 28:19, John 1:1,14, Acts 5:3-4).

This argument is not scripturally reconcilable.

The expression “the trinity” was first used in Greek by Theophilus of Antioch in about 170 AD. It was subsequently used by Tertullian in the 3rd century AD, and defined by him essentially as it has been understood since then, i.e. referring to the three-person Godhead.

Thus the expression and its definition are extra-scriptural, i.e. originating outside of scripture, but capturing reality seen within scripture.

By contrast, the expression “the Antichrist”, with a capitalized “A”, invariably used to refer to a single future individual, is found nowhere in the KJV, NAS, or YLT translations. The expression “the antichrist”, with a decapitalized “a”, is found in the NAS and YLT. The composite definition is found in the following four verses in John's epistles, these from the KJV:

1 John 2:18
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1 John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2 John 1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Therefore, unlike “trinity” or “the trinity”, the word or expression “antichrist” or “the antichrist”, is intra-scriptural, i.e. found within scripture, along with the accompanying composite definition seen in the above verses. Thus any interpretation or exegesis of this particular word or expression must adhere strictly to the information about it which scripture gives us, free of any private interpretations.

The two primary irreconcilabilities between a claimed single future individual “the Antichrist” and John's descriptions are:

1. Antichrist is not limited to a single individual, but is many. (1 John 2:18, 2 John 1:7)

2. Antichrist is not limited to a future individual, but was already present when John wrote. (1 John 2:18, 1 John 4:3, 2 John 1:7)

Scripture thus does not identify any entity which uniquely qualifies as “the Antichrist”, to the exclusion of any other entities which have or will manifest the characteristics of an antichrist as described by John.

It is evident that, when the history of the true Christian Church is examined, she has suffered at the hands of many antichrists; and will undoubtedly continue to do so until Christ returns.

It is further evident that various eras in Christian Church history have seen the emergence and dominance of particular antichrists over those time periods. That of the apostate papacy of the Dark Ages is a cogent example. The ultimate success of the Reformation was due in no small part to the Reformers' declarations, often to the death, that the apostate papacy was antichrist. Various of the Reformers would at times use the expression “the Antichrist” to identify the apostate papacy as the predominant antichrist of that era. But they were also aware from John's descriptions in his epistles that there had been previous antichrists in the past, and would continue to be other antichrists to follow in the future.

In relation to antichrists, the Church's experiences may or will continue to unfold consistent with John's descriptions.

But those descriptions are not reconcilable with a single future individual “the Antichrist”.
 
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jgr said in post #76:

These are spiritual gates. They attack.

Note that nothing in the Bible says or requires that spiritual gates attack. For the purpose of gates is defensive.

jgr said in post #76:

These gates attack. But they never prevail. That is a Divine Guarantee.

The Diving Guarantee is only that the gates of Hell would not prevail defensively against the "Rock", Jesus Christ (Matthew 16:18b; 1 Corinthians 10:4b, Psalms 107:16, Ephesians 4:8-9, 1 Peter 3:19; 1 Peter 4:6).

For note that the future Antichrist will prevail against the Church (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

jgr said in post #76:

Physically, each such death of a saint is a defeat.

But spiritually, each such death of a saint is a victory.

That's right.

But some people mistakenly think that Matthew 16:18b means that the Church cannot even be physically defeated, and they refer to Luke 10:19.

But if Luke 10:19 refers to physical protection, then the verse could have applied only to the seventy people sent forth by Jesus Christ (Luke 10:1, Luke 10:17-20). If Luke 10:19 applies to the entire Church, then it means that the power of Satan cannot hurt obedient Christians spiritually. For Satan, when allowed by God, can hurt and even kill obedient Christians physically (Revelation 2:10, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13). But obedient Christians overcome Satan spiritually even when they are physically killed by him (Revelation 12:11). For they are more than conquerors spiritually even when they are physically led like sheep to the slaughter (Romans 8:36-37). For death is a gain for obedient Christians, as it brings their still-conscious souls into heaven to be with Jesus (Philippians 1:21,23; 2 Corinthians 5:8). So obedient Christians need have no fear of death (Hebrews 2:15).

And at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming, He will bring with Him from heaven all of the souls of all of the obedient Christians who have ever died (1 Thessalonians 4:14-15). And they will all be resurrected into immortal physical bodies at that time (1 Thessalonians 4:16; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23; 1 Corinthians 15:52-53). They will then reign on the earth with Jesus for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). And sometime after that, they will live forever on a future, New Earth (Revelation 21:1 to 22:5). So no matter what evil forces have done to obedient Christians physically in the past, or are doing to them physically now, or in the future, such as during the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13), all obedient Christians of all times will ultimately have the victory (1 Corinthians 15:57; 1 John 5:4, Revelation 12:11, Revelation 15:2).
 
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