We are the Church, so why is it a problem churches temporarily closed?

[ZNP]

Honestly, I'm not worried about Coronavirus in the least. The statistics are pretty clear, those under 55 have a 99.9% chance of survival. The average age of death is 76 in my state, half of whom have died in nursing homes. This isn't something for most of us to be concerned about, certainly no more than we worry about flu which most of us don't think twice about.

Tell that to Brazil

Coronavirus: Hospitals in Brazil’s largest city near collapse amid huge spike in cases, mayor says

The healthcare system in Brazil’s largest city is on the verge of collapse due to coronavirus, its mayor has said.

Bruno Covas, mayor of Sao Paulo, said public hospitals in the city of 12 million people had already reached 90 per cent capacity, and could run out of space within two weeks.

“It is hard to believe that some prefer the population to be subjected to Russian roulette. Indifference in the face of death is unseemly,” he said of those flouting social distancing measures, which includes the country’s far-right president, Jair Bolsonaro.

Brazil confirmed 7,938 new cases of the novel coronavirus as of Sunday, as well as 485 related deaths, according to data from the Health Ministry. It brought the total number of deaths to 16,118, and the confirmed cases to more than 240,000 - the fourth highest in the world, having overtaken Spain and Italy on Saturday.

Sao Paulo is one of the country’s worst-hit regions, accounting for around a fifth of its confirmed deaths so far.

Coronavirus: Hospitals in Brazil’s largest city near collapse amid huge spike in cases, mayor says

 

[Bobber]

Yes, if the church service is only a sermon and hymn singing, most of that can be done online--not as well, of course, but done--in some other way.

But if the service involves the Lord's Supper, as is the case with most Christians, there's no way for that to be done other than in person.

But that depends on just what paradigm one believes about this. Our church does it on line where each one gets their own juice and bread, cracker or wafer at home.

 

[ZNP]

But that depends on just what paradigm one believes about this. Our church does it on line where each one gets their own juice and bread, cracker or wafer at home.

Yes, I believe you can celebrate the Lord's table with 10 or less.

 

[Bobber]

Tell that to Brazil

Coronavirus: Hospitals in Brazil’s largest city near collapse amid huge spike in cases, mayor says

The healthcare system in Brazil’s largest city is on the verge of collapse due to coronavirus, its mayor has said.

Bruno Covas, mayor of Sao Paulo, said public hospitals in the city of 12 million people had already reached 90 per cent capacity, and could run out of space within two weeks.

“It is hard to believe that some prefer the population to be subjected to Russian roulette. Indifference in the face of death is unseemly,” he said of those flouting social distancing measures, which includes the country’s far-right president, Jair Bolsonaro.

Brazil confirmed 7,938 new cases of the novel coronavirus as of Sunday, as well as 485 related deaths, according to data from the Health Ministry. It brought the total number of deaths to 16,118, and the confirmed cases to more than 240,000 - the fourth highest in the world, having overtaken Spain and Italy on Saturday.

Sao Paulo is one of the country’s worst-hit regions, accounting for around a fifth of its confirmed deaths so far.

Coronavirus: Hospitals in Brazil’s largest city near collapse amid huge spike in cases, mayor says

Keep in mind Sao Paulo has a populaton of 12 million. New York has a little over 8. Plus I also like to talk to actual people that work in the medical facilities like I do here. What's said in the media doesn't always reflect exactly what people working in these places say. No I'm not saying there's not a serious problem but....still like to hear from people not connected to the media. Happen to have a friend whose spouse is from San Paulo. Like to ask her what all her relatives are saying.

 

[Archivist]

Honestly, I'm not worried about Coronavirus in the least. The statistics are pretty clear, those under 55 have a 99.9% chance of survival. The average age of death is 76 in my state, half of whom have died in nursing homes. This isn't something for most of us to be concerned about, certainly no more than we worry about flu which most of us don't think twice about.

As I said, I hope and pray that everyone in your church stays healthy and that no infected people come to one of your services. I am glad that my church is abiding by the Commonwealth’s laws.

 

[ZNP]

Keep in mind Sao Paulo has a populaton of 12 million. New York has a little over 8. Plus I also like to talk to actual people that work in the medical facilities like I do here. What's said in the media doesn't always reflect exactly what people working in these places say. No I'm not saying there's not a serious problem but....still like to hear from people not connected to the media. Happen to have a friend whose spouse is from San Paulo. Like to ask her what all her relatives are saying.

By 2030, it’s estimated that it 1 in 4 people on the planet will live in a slum or other informal settlement. Let’s take a tour of the world’s biggest slums:

• Khayelitsha in Cape Town (South Africa): 400,000
• Kibera in Nairobi (Kenya): 700,000
• Dharavi in Mumbai (India): 1,000,000
• Neza (Mexico): 1,200,000
• Orangi Town in Karachi (Pakistan): 2,400,000

Perhaps I am pessimistic, but I do not trust the government reports on covid deaths from these areas. I suspect that they don't test, have no inclination to classify them as Covid, so the only real way you'll know is by mass graves and high death rates.

Now according to Worldometer

South Africa — 2% of closed cases were death

Kenya — 5% of closed cases were death

India, Pakistan — 7% of closed cases were death

Mexico — 13% of closed cases were death

So this tells me either they aren't classifying many of those who have covid as having it, only those who actually got to the hospital and were tested, hence the very high death rate, or else their health care is so poor that the death rate is so high.

In my opinion, based on some recent reporting from NYTimes on very high death rates in various countries from which they infer underreporting of the Covid19, that we'll see the most extreme under reporting in slums.

 

[Monksailor]

My mother, who is in her 90s, can remember quarantines if someone in a house had measles—no one was allowed to enter or leave that house.

I was raised in a family of six. Whenever one of us kids came down with measles, chicken pox, mumps, etc. my mother would make sure that the rest of us got it from the the one with it as it was MUCH safer to have those when young and an immunity would develop for most at that time. Bach then if one got that stuff as an adult it could be fatal. My mother and father were both college educated and my father with three degrees, by the way.

 

[Archivist]

I was raised in a family of six. Whenever one of us kids came down with measles, chicken pox, mumps, etc. my mother would make sure that the rest of us got it from the the one with it as it was MUCH safer to have those when young and an immunity would develop for most at that time. Bach then if one got that stuff as an adult it could be fatal. My mother and father were both college educated and my father with three degrees, by the way.

I had mumps as a child but missed chickenpox and measles. Since I teach I have to get the shot for them. BTW, my dad also has three graduate degrees with his doctorate being from Penn State.

 

[Monksailor]

By 2030, it’s estimated that it 1 in 4 people on the planet will live in a slum or other informal settlement. Let’s take a tour of the world’s biggest slums:

• Khayelitsha in Cape Town (South Africa): 400,000
• Kibera in Nairobi (Kenya): 700,000
• Dharavi in Mumbai (India): 1,000,000
• Neza (Mexico): 1,200,000
• Orangi Town in Karachi (Pakistan): 2,400,000

Perhaps I am pessimistic, but I do not trust the government reports on covid deaths from these areas. I suspect that they don't test, have no inclination to classify them as Covid, so the only real way you'll know is by mass graves and high death rates.

Now according to Worldometer

South Africa — 2% of closed cases were death

Kenya — 5% of closed cases were death

India, Pakistan — 7% of closed cases were death

Mexico — 13% of closed cases were death

So this tells me either they aren't classifying many of those who have covid as having it, only those who actually got to the hospital and were tested, hence the very high death rate, or else their health care is so poor that the death rate is so high.

In my opinion, based on some recent reporting from NYTimes on very high death rates in various countries from which they infer underreporting of the Covid19, that we'll see the most extreme under reporting in slums.

My state has been in the upper three to upper ten for most of this time of cases and deaths. What is odd is that when I calculate the death to case ratio for many, many other states I get under 5% and many around 2-3% death rate but MI's is and has been around 10%?????? Any ideas. I am thinking larger numbers of high risk age victims? Any one know for sure?

 

[Archivist]

My state has been in the upper three to upper ten for most of this time of cases and deaths. What is odd is that when I calculate the death to case ratio for many, many other states I get under 5% and many around 2-3% death rate but MI's is and has been around 10%?????? Any ideas. I am thinking larger numbers of high risk age victims? Any one know for sure?

By rights West Virginia where I live should have gotten hit hard. We have an older population with conditions such as black lung. Fortunately our governor acted quickly. I didn’t vote for him when he ran the first time, but he will get my vote in the fall.

 

[charsan]

our church is doing virtual communions where we have our wine and bread at home while service is live streamed but i agree it isnt the same...am glad this wont be forever. most churches will re open eventually even if takes a year or two. some may not. which is sad . but we are the church and our faith is eternal

Our Church, Anglican, Catholic, Orthodox, and others can't just take the Eucharist at home because to us it is more than just communion and of course I know I shared this before. That's why for us Traditional Christians church is more than getting together.

 

[Junia]

Our Church, Anglican, Catholic, Orthodox, and others can't just take the Eucharist at home because to us it is more than just communion and of course I know I shared this before. That's why for us Traditional Christians church is more than getting together.

i understand. but it isn't forever. it is hard in the meantime though. but when churches open again i will be the first one through the door

 

[charsan]

But that depends on just what paradigm one believes about this. Our church does it on line where each one gets their own juice and bread, cracker or wafer at home.

As I said above the Eucharist for Traditional Christian is much, much more than a mere memorial. The Eucharist itself contains the Real Presence of Christ.

 

[Albion]

...when I calculate the death to case ratio for many, many other states I get under 5% and many around 2-3% death rate but MI's is and has been around 10%?????? Any ideas. I am thinking larger numbers of high risk age victims? Any one know for sure?

The most affected part of the state is the Metropolitan area. There, the deaths are about 13% (Detroit city), and 14% (rest of Wayne County and in Oakland County).

Therefore, the ratio has to be much lower for the rest of the state.

 

[ZNP]

My state has been in the upper three to upper ten for most of this time of cases and deaths. What is odd is that when I calculate the death to case ratio for many, many other states I get under 5% and many around 2-3% death rate but MI's is and has been around 10%?????? Any ideas. I am thinking larger numbers of high risk age victims? Any one know for sure?

There are probably 10x the number of people have it as are confirmed.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

feast days are a matter of personal choice. the NT is our guide for today. we are in the Church Age, and therefpore ROmans 14 is very apt. i think the onlky feast i keep is the communion. oh and i sort of keep christmas but that isn't a biblical feast anyway.

Yeah, the only solemn feast in the new covenant age is the eucharist or communion.

However, there is that mimicry of the old testament histories in church history.

Since we're well past the divided kingdom, and even in captivity where the beast tells us how to worship - the part where God spoke of the solemn feasts as dung in Malachi, if it hasn't come then it may.

The thought occurred to me since the in person meetings are simply not possible now.

When examining the prophetic element to anything, one must also examine if God is chastising His people. For He loves as much as He chastises - and Judgment begins with the house of God - judgment day for everyone else comes later on.

 

[Junia]

Yeah, the only solemn feast in the new covenant age is the eucharist or communion.

However, there is that mimicry of the old testament histories in church history.

Since we're well past the divided kingdom, and even in captivity where the beast tells us how to worship - the part where God spoke of the solemn feasts as dung in Malachi, if it hasn't come then it may.

The thought occurred to me since the in person meetings are simply not possible now.

When examining the prophetic element to anything, one must also examine if God is chastising His people. For He loves as much as He chastises - and Judgment begins with the house of God - judgment day for everyone else comes later on.

churches are closed for now. no one knows how long for. this could go on years or end in weeks. God knows we do not. we do have the Bible though as you suggested.

we are in the Church Age. the age of the new testament. until Jeus comes agian only God knows when that is coming.,

not sure about the divided kingdom

as for judgement, could be although i have heard of born again christians and churches being affected. if God i sjudging, only the false believers and churches will be affected. which doesnt add up to what i have seen so far.

 

[Junia]

the Wrath is poure dout on unbelievers not the saved.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

churches are closed for now. no one knows how long for. this could go on years or end in weeks. God knows we do not. we do have the Bible though as you suggested.

we are in the Church Age. the age of the new testament. until Jeus comes agian only God knows when that is coming.,

not sure about the divided kingdom

as for judgement, could be although i have heard of born again christians and churches being affected. if God i sjudging, only the false believers and churches will be affected. which doesn't add up to what i have seen so far.

For believers our whole life is our judgment day. Then once Love has been matured in us we will have confidence on the day of Judgment.

I agree we're in the age of the new testament. Not sure about the phenomenon I'm observing, it's a parallel phenomenon from what I can tell.

 

[Junia]

For believers our whole life is our judgment day. Then once Love has been matured in us we will have confidence on the day of Judgment.


I agree we're in the age of the new testament. Not sure about the phenomenon I'm observing, it's a parallel phenomenon from what I can tell.

sorry i respectfully disagree, when we are born again we are now saved and sealed into Sonship. we are no longer appointed to wrath but made righteous by Jesus' atonement for our sins. we get disciplined, corected, but that not same as the end times WRATH which God unleashes during the tribulation. we are spared that wrath as we are now righteous. the judgement in the hous eof God is convicting us of Sin, not destroying us christians do not go to hell if they are truly born again