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Water Baptism

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by Hervey, Jan 14, 2002.

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  1. Hervey

    Hervey Member

    Water Baptism

    Was water baptism a part of the Law ?

    The answer is "yes" !

    In the OT it was called "cleansing" -- or "water cleansing".

    Here is one example of "water cleansing" in the OT, of which Israel was under the Law, of those things that were not clean.

    Leviticus 11:32 ----"it "must" be put into water, and it shall be unclean until the even; so it shall be cleansed ( read the context , by reading verses 22 thru verse 47

    Jesus Christ fulfilled the law, and thus was "water baptized" - "water cleansed". Jesus Christ said this is my body which is given for you - "take eat", and this is my blood of the new and everlasting convenant, take and drink. Before Jesus Christ could offer himself, he needed to fulfill the law of "water cleansing" - "water baptism". John "cleansed" - "baptized" with water, which fulfilled the law. This is the "reason" that Jesus Christ was baptized with water.

    Another record of water cleansing is in Leviticus 15:13

    Jesus Christ had no need to be water cleansed, as he was sinless. But he came also to "fulfill" the law of Moses, also called the Law of God.

    So, is there a "need" to be "water baptized" anymore ?

    NO ! The Law has been fulfilled, and there is no need to continue to "do" the law. If we were to continue to "do" the law, then Christ has been made of no affect unto you , and you then who have been saved , fall from grace - Galatians chapter 5.

    In the unity of the Spirit, there is only "one" baptism (cleansing). That "one" baptism occured when we were baptized into the death and resurrection of Christ. Because when he died, we died with him and when he was raised, we were raised with him -- Romans 6:3 - Baptized into his death --- Romans 6:4 - buried with him by baptism into death: And raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father.

    Jesus Christ's own words in his resurrected body, just before he ascended up into heaven were -- > Acts 1:4 - "wait for the promise of the Father" --- verse 5 - "For John truly baptized ( water cleansed) with water; but "ye" shall be baptized (cleansed) with the Holy Spirit not many days hence.

    The first spiritual Christian baptism took place on the day of pentecost, when the day of pentecost was fully come - Acts 2:1

    And the gift of holy spirit came "upon" them like as of "fire" and it "sat" upon them, and they were filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance"

    Water baptism (cleansing) was "under" the law !

    Being baptized into his death, and receiving the baptism of the gift of holy spirit upon , is the baptism unto Christians - "the chosen" - Ephesians 1:4.

    We are a "new creature" IN Christ - Galatians 6:15 , and neither water cleansing or no water cleansing availeth anything !

    Love IN Christ - HErvey
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. VeraciousMaven

    VeraciousMaven Jesus Saves!

    >adjusts monocle<

    Here, here -- I object.

    ... not really.

  3. homebild

    homebild New Member

    In as much as the Law was but a foreshadowing of the reality fulfilled in Christ, water baptism is the fulfillment of the foreshadowing of the purpose of circumcision.

    Christ ORDAINED water baptism APART from the Law.

    Water baptism is a New Testament command and ordinance of Jesus Christ. not the Law.

    In fact, it is the act of baptism itself that removes sins and circumcized the old flesh away to make room for the new man.

    The apostles taught that only through water baptism was a person identitified with the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

    Without water baptism, repentance is meaningless and the joining with the Body of Christ incomplete.

    Those who object to the necessity of water baptism in regards to salvation do not understand that indeed, water baptism is a work, however it is a 'working of God' in the life of him baptised.

    Salvation is impossible without water baptism. This Christ ordained and apostolicly confirmed doctrine was so important to the early church that, all were baptized IMMEDIATELY upon conversion and without exception in all accounts in scripture.
  4. Hervey

    Hervey Member


    You made a lot of claims , without backing up your statements with scripture !

    Would you like to discuss this, or are you just making a claim without any references ?

    Love IN Christ - Hervey
  5. homebild

    homebild New Member

    I didn't think it was necessary to post the scriptures, but perhaps it is well I do it since your position is certainly not at all a scriptural one.

    Here's a great article about Paul's Teacing concerning the necessity of Water Baptism:


    << Previous | Index | Next >>
                        Baptism In The Teaching Of Paul
    1. In our first lesson we saw where baptism played a prominent role in    apostolic preaching...
       a. In every case of conversion described in the book of Acts,
          baptism is mentioned
       b. As G. R. Beasley-Murray, a Baptist scholar, observed:  "Baptism
          is...a part of the proclamation of Christ. In an Apostolic sermon
          it comes as its logical conclusion." - G. R. Beasley-Murray,
          Baptism In The New Testament, Grand Rapids:  Wm. B. Eerdmans
          Publishing Co., 1962, p. 393)
    2. And what did the apostles proclaim regarding baptism?  We noticed    that...
       a. It was commanded "for the remission of sins" - Ac 2:38    b. It was done to "wash away sins" - Ac 22:16
       c. It involved "water" - Ac 8:36-38; 10:48
       d. It was done "immediately", with no delay even if after midnight
          - Ac 16:25-33
    3. This would certainly suggest that baptism is necessary for     salvation...
       a. But is this a fair conclusion drawn from the "preaching" of the
       b. Is this conclusion consistent with the "teaching" of the
          apostles, as found in their epistles?
    [In this lesson, we will examine what Paul taught in his epistles regarding baptism.  Let's start with by noticing what he said about baptism...]
        1. It is a baptism into the death of Christ - Ro 6:3
          2. It is a burial with Christ into death (His death, we are 
             crucified with Him!) - Ro 6:4
          3. It is done in order that we might walk in newness of life 
             - Ro 6:4-5
          4. It involves crucifying the old man, that the body of sin may
             be destroyed - Ro 6:6
          6. It thereby frees us from sin as we die to sin, that we might
             live with Christ - Ro 6:7-11
          1. Paul does not say that baptism "symbolizes things which had
             already occurred"
             a. Many say this is the purpose or design of baptism, often
                quoting this passage
             b. But read the passage carefully;  Paul says no such thing!
          2. But rather, Paul describes baptism into Christ as WHEN such
             things occur
             a. We were buried with Him "through baptism into death" -
                Ro 6:4
             b. It is in baptism we are buried with Christ into death (His
                death); we thereby die to sin in baptism
             c. We were buried with Him, why?  "That just as Christ was
                raised...even so we also should walk in newness of life" 
                - Ro 6:4
             d. We are baptized in order to rise to walk in newness of life
                just as Christ did!
          3. Note also Paul's preface to these remarks: "as many as were 
             baptized into Christ Jesus were..."
             a. What blessings he describes pertain only to those who had
                been baptized!
             b. What of those not baptized?  The blessings described would
                not apply!
    [In his commentary on Romans, Martin Luther wrote:  "Baptism has been instituted that it should lead us to the blessings (of this death) and through such death to eternal life.  Therefore IT IS NECESSARY that we should be baptized into Jesus Christ and His death."  (Commentary On Romans, Kregel Publications, p.101).
    Though believing that we are justified by grace through faith (and he would say "by faith alone"), Luther understood that salvation by faith did not preclude the necessity of baptism!  Why, we shall see shortly; but let's go on to consider what Paul wrote of baptism...]
          1. From Ga 3:26-27 we learn that baptism is involved in the
             process of becoming sons of God by faith in Christ Jesus
          2. The "for" beginning verse 27 begins an explanation as to HOW
             we become sons of God through faith
          3. Baptism is therefore the means by which we "put on Christ",
             and become sons of God!
          1. Paul wrote:  "For as many of you as were baptized into Christ
             have put on..."
             a. "For as many" means no more or no less
             b. Only those who have been baptized into Christ have really
                received Christ into their lives!
          2. Many teach "receive Jesus Christ by saying the sinner's
             a. But the Bible nowhere teaches that this is how one 
                "receives Christ"
             b. Rather, one "puts on" (or receives) Christ when they are
                baptized into Christ!
    [In his commentary on this verse, Luther concluded:  "Wherefore baptism is a thing of great force and efficacy." (Commentary On Galatians,  Kregel Publications, p.222).  How true, if in baptism we "put on  Christ"!
    How this is possible without being a form of works-salvation becomes clearer as we consider what Paul taught concerning baptism...]
          1. A "spiritual circumcision" in which sins are "cut away" 
             - Co 2:11
          2. A burial with Christ, and also a resurrection with Him 
             - Co 2:12
          3. Made effective "through faith in the working of God" - Co 2:12
          4. In which GOD makes us "alive together with Him, having
             forgiven you all trespasses" - Co 2:13
          1. Here we learn that baptism is a work of God, not man
             a. Just as it was God who raised Jesus, so it is He who makes
               us alive, having forgiven our sins! - Co 2:13
             b. Our part is "faith in the working of God" as we are buried
                with Christ in baptism - Co 2:12
          2. God is the "Great Physician", who is cutting away our sins
             (through the blood of Christ)
             a. We are simply the patient, who humbly submits in faith to
                the surgeon's scalpel
             b. He is the One who makes us alive, that we might rise to 
                walk in newness of life
    [Again, this is something Martin Luther clearly recognized, when he responded to those who would call this a kind of works-salvation:  
       "Yes, it is true that our works are of no use for salvation.      Baptism, however, is not our work but God's."  (as quoted by 
       Jack W. Cottrell in Baptism And The Remission of Sins, College    Press, 1990, p. 32-34)
    Finally, let's consider what Paul taught concerning baptism...]
          1. Is Paul talking about baptism in Ti 3:5?
             a. The figure "washing" certainly alludes to the baptismal 
            b. We have already seen where in baptism we are:
               1) Raised to walk in newness of life - Ro 6:4
                2) Made alive by God - Co 2:12-13
                -- Does this not suggest a "washing of regeneration..."?
             c. Martin Luther and many others understood this verse to 
                refer to baptism
          2. Thus God saves us in baptism:
             a. It is a "washing of regeneration" - a washing in we are 
             b. It is a "renewing of the Holy Spirit" - a renewal in which
                the Spirit is at work
             -- Just as Jesus said:  "...unless one is born of water and
                the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." - Jn 3:5
          1. This "washing" and "regeneration" does not occur because we 
             have earned it!
             a. Baptism is not a work of righteousness by virtue of which
                we merit salvation!
             b. We are saved by the kindness, love, and mercy of God! 
                - Ti 3:4-5
          2. It is by God's mercy that HE (not we) saves us!
             a. Which HE does through the washing of regeneration and 
                renewing of the Holy Spirit!
          b. Which HE does when we are baptized into Christ!
        3. Through such mercy in Christ Jesus, we are truly "justified by
             His grace" - Ti 3:6-7
    1. Paul taught that baptism is...
       a. A burial into the death of Christ
       b. How we die to sin as we are crucified with Him
       c. A resurrection with Christ so we can rise to walk in newness of
       d. A putting on Christ, thereby becoming a child of God    e. A spiritual circumcision in which sins are cut away    f. The working of God, whereby we are buried with Christ, made alive
          as our sins are forgiven, and then raised with Him
       g. An act of God's grace and mercy, in which we experience a washing
          of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit
       -- If all these things when one is baptized, how can anyone say that
          it is not necessary?
    2. Sadly, many who say it is NOT necessary...
       a. Misunderstand those who say it is necessary
         1) Thinking that they believe in salvation by works
          2) When they truly believe in salvation by grace through faith!    b. Misunderstand Martin Luther
          1) Whose coined phrased "saved by faith only" they themselves use
             so often
          2) When he differs with them on the necessity of baptism    c. Misunderstand the apostle Paul
          1) Having him say things about the purpose of baptism he does not
          2) Failing to appreciate what he clearly teaches about baptism    -- All this, in their zeal to oppose what they mistakenly view as
    Author: Mark Copeland

  6. homebild

    homebild New Member

    Peter's views on the necessity of Water Baptism:

    Author is Mark Copeland:

    << Previous | Index | Next >>
                        Baptism In The Teaching Of Peter
    1. In our first lesson we saw where Peter included baptism as part of    his apostolic preaching...
       a. He commanded the people at Pentecost to be baptized - Ac 2:36-38    b. He commanded the household of Cornelius to be baptized - Ac 10:
    2. From the accounts in Acts, we saw that for Peter baptism was...    a. For the remission of sins - Ac 2:38
       b. An act that involved water - Ac 10:47
    3. But one might properly ask:  was Peter teaching...
       a. That baptism was for the forgiveness of sins, and therefore
          necessary for salvation?
       b. That one is saved by baptism in water?
    4. Fortunately, we do not have wonder, for in his first epistle Peter    wrote...
       "There is also an antitype which now saves us; baptism (not the    removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good     conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,"
                                                 (1 Pe 3:21)
    [As stated in the KJV, "...baptism doth also NOW save us"!  But while teaching that baptism saves us, Peter is careful to explain in what  way.  Let's take a closer look at the text to see what Peter is saying about baptism...]
          1. The Greek word is antitupon {an-teet'-oo-pon}, which means "a
             thing formed after some pattern; that which corresponds to a
          2. So you have two things that some how relate or correspond to
        each other; one is a type, the other is the antitype
          1. In the text, the waters of the flood are the "type", and the
         waters of baptism are the "antitype" - 1 Pe 3:20-21
          2. In his commentary, Albert Barnes says...
             a. "The meaning here is, that baptism corresponded to, or had
                a resemblance to, the water by which Noah was saved; or 
        that there was a use of water in the one case which 
                corresponded in some respects to the water that was used in
                the other; to wit, in effecting salvation." (Commentary on
                1st Peter)
             b. "The apostle does not say that it corresponded in all 
                respects; in respect, e.g., to quantity, or to the manner
                of the application, or to the efficacy; but there is a 
                sense in which water performs an important part in our 
                salvation, as it did in his." (ibid.)
          3. Thus Peter was comparing Noah's salvation with our own...
             a. Remember that Noah was saved by:
                1) Grace - Gen 6:8
                2) Faith - He 11:7
                3) Water - 1 Pe 3:20
                -- Grace was God's part, faith was Noah's part; water was
                   simply an element by which God carried out His plan to 
                   save Noah
             b. So we are saved by:
                1) Grace - Ep 2:5
                2) Faith - Ep 2:8
                3) Water - 1 Pe 3:21
                -- Grace is God's part, faith is our part; baptism is 
                   simply an element by which God carries out His plan to
                   save us through the blood of Christ
    [Because baptism in water is somehow related to our salvation, Peter could speak of it as an antitype that saves us, just as Noah and his family were "saved through water"!
    How can this be?  Aren't we saved by the blood of Jesus?  Of course!   The answer can be seen as we continue to note what Peter taught  concerning baptism...]
          1. As Peter makes clear when he says "not the removal of the 
             filth of the flesh"
          2. For indeed it is only through the blood of Jesus Christ one 
             can be saved
             a. We are justified through His blood - Ro 5:9
             b. We have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of 
                sins - Ep 1:7
          3. To this Peter would definitely agree - 1 Pe 1:18-19
          1. If He had not been raised, we would still be in our sins
             a. As Paul declares in 1 Co 15:17
             b. Without His resurrection, His death would have been 
          2. But because Jesus was raised from the dead...
             a. Those baptized into His death can rise to walk in newness 
                of life - Ro 6:4
             b. Those united together in the likeness of His death (i.e.,
        baptism) can share in the power of His resurrection 
                - Ro 6:5
          3. In other words, the same power of God that raised Jesus from
             the dead is what saves us in baptism so we can be "made alive"
             - cf. Co 2:12-13
    [By God's saving grace and resurrecting power, then, baptism can indeed save us!  Not because of any cleansing power in the water, but because of what GOD is doing at that moment through the blood of Jesus and the regeneration of the Holy Spirit (cf. Ti 3:4-5).
    But notice finally, how Peter teaches that baptism saves because...]
          1. A difficult phrase, but it most likely means "an appeal to God
             for a clear conscience"
         2. This is supported by the following translations:
             a. "the craving for a conscience right with God" (Goodspeed)
             b. "the prayer for a clean conscience before God" (Moffat)
             c. "the request unto God for a good conscience" (Rotherham)
          d. "an appeal to God for a clear conscience" (RSV)
          e. "an appeal to God for a good conscience" (NASV)
          -- Thus one is baptized because they desire a clear conscience
             (i.e., to have their sins forgiven)
          1. In apostolic preaching, baptized was commanded:
             a. "For the remission of sins" - Ac 2:38
          b. To have one's sins "washed away" - cf. Ac 22:16
          2. In N.T. times people who realized they were sinners were 
           anxious to be baptized as soon as possible - cf. Ac 8:35-38
          3. Therefore one is baptized...
             a. To have a good conscience before God; indeed, to have their
           conscience "purged" by the blood of Christ - cf. He 9:14
             b. To have their sins washed away by blood of Jesus and so
                they can rise to a new life through the same power of God
                that raised Jesus from the dead!
    1. Does baptism save us?
       a. Many say "Baptism does NOT save us!"
       b. But Peter clearly taught "...baptism doth also NOW save us" (KJV)
    2. How does baptism save us?  According to Peter...
       a. Through the resurrection of Jesus Christ!
       b. As an appeal for a good conscience!
    3. This helps us to understand...
       a. Why he commanded it for the remission of sins - Ac 2:38    b. Why he commanded it even for those who had in some sense received
          the Spirit - Ac 10:47-48
    Yes, through the power of God that raised Jesus from the dead, working in conjunction with our faith in the blood of Jesus, baptism does  indeed save those who are making an appeal for a clear conscience!
    Is baptism essential to salvation?  Let the preaching and teaching of Christ's apostles provide the answer!  I believe that when we do, we can see why one should takes Jesus' own words with no equivocation:
       "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does    not believe will be condemned." - Mk 16:16
    It is my prayer that if you have not yet properly responded to the Word of the Lord, you will heed the same words given to Paul:
       "And now why are you waiting?  Arise and be baptized, and wash    away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord." - Ac 22:16
    Have you made an appeal to God for a good conscience by being baptized into Christ?
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  7. homebild

    homebild New Member

    The necessity of Water Baptism in the Apostle's teachings:

    Author again is Mark Copeland:
    << Previous | Index | Next >>
                    Baptism In The Preaching Of The Apostles
    1. Shortly before He ascended into heaven, Jesus gave His apostles The    Great Commission:
       And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been    given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples    of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of    the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things    that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to    the end of the age." Amen. (Mt 28:18-20)
    2. In the gospel of Mark, The Great Commission is worded in this way:
       And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel    to every creature.  He who believes and is baptized will be saved;    but he who does not believe will be condemned."  (Mk 16:15-16)
    3. In both places we notice the mention of baptism...
       a. In Matthew, it is related to the process of making disciples    b. In Mark, it is mentioned in connection with salvation    -- Whatever the purpose of baptism, it must be important to Jesus,
          for He commanded it!
    4. But one might ask...
       a. What is baptism?
          1) Is it pouring, sprinkling, or immersion?
          2) Is one baptized in water, or in the Spirit?
       b. What is the purpose of baptism?
          1) Is it for the remission of sins, or because our sins have 
             already been forgiven?
          2) Is it to be saved, or a public confession of faith having 
             already been saved?
       c. Who should be baptized?
          1) Should infants be baptized?
          2) Should just anyone be baptized?
       d. Is there ever a need to be "re-baptized"?
          1) What if I was baptized as an infant?
          2) What if I was baptized for the wrong reason?
          3) What if I have sinned greatly after being baptized?    -- These and many other questions are often asked when the subject
          of baptism is raised
    5. This series is devoted to answering these and other questions     related to baptism...
       a. Since it was commanded by Christ, it is certainly worthy of 
          careful consideration
       b. It is my intention to glean from the Bible what is actually
          taught on this subject
       c. It is my prayer that you will have the attitude of those in Berea
          - cf. Ac 17:11
          1) To receive the word with all readiness (i.e., listen carefully
             with a desire to at least understand, if at first you do not
          2) To search the Scriptures (i.e., to read the Bible carefully to
             see if what I am saying is true)
    [In this lesson, we will simply consider how the apostles carried out The Commission Jesus gave them; i.e., to see what they said about  baptism in their preaching.  We begin with...]
          1. In the first gospel sermon, Peter commanded people to be 
             baptized "for the remission of sins" - Ac 2:38
          2. Upon exhorting his audience to be saved, the response was for
             many to be baptized - Ac 2:41-41
          3. Does "for" mean "in order to" or "because of"?
             a. Note: We find the same grammatical construction in Mt 26:28
       1) Where Jesus said His blood would be shed for many "for
                   the remission sins"
                2) Clearly Jesus meant "in order to" provide remission of
       sins, and not "because" remission of sins had already
         3) With rare exception, the Greek word (eis) means "into,
                   to, unto, for, toward"
             b. Note also: "be baptized" is joined by the conjunction "and"
                to the command "repent" - Ac 2:38
           1) Both are commanded "for the remission of sins"
                2) Just as people were commanded to repent "for" (in order
                   to) the remission of sins...
                3) ...so they were commanded to be baptized "for" (in order
                   to) the remission of sins
          1. In the first gospel sermon to the Gentiles, Peter followed up
            by commanding his audience to be baptized - cf. Ac 10:44-48
          2. It is evident that what Peter commanded involved a baptism in
             water - Ac 10:47-48
          3. A future study will examine whether the people were saved when
             the Spirit fell upon them, or when they were baptized as 
             commanded by Peter
    [At the very least, we can say that Peter's preaching was in harmony with the statements of Jesus in the Great Commission:  Preach the  gospel, command people to be baptized.  
    So far the indication appears that it was a baptism in water, and done for the remission of sins.  Let's consider now one who was not actually an apostle, but certainly filled with the Spirit...]
       1. Though not an apostle, Philip went to Samaria and "preached
             Christ" - Ac 8:5
          2. The response to such preaching:  "...when they believed Philip
             as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and
             the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized."
             - Ac 8:12
          1. To this very religious man, Philip "preached Jesus" - Ac 8:35
          2. Though we are not told the content of Philip's sermon, from 
             the eunuch's question we can deduce that it included baptism 
             - Ac 8:36-38
    [Like Peter, Philip "preached Jesus" not only by telling people about Jesus, but also what Jesus commanded.  Baptism was an immediate result of such preaching.  Is this surprising in light of Jesus' statements in Mt 28:19 and Mk 16:15-16?  Let's now consider...]
          1. We note that again baptism followed apostolic preaching 
             - Ac 16:13-15
          2. As evidence that she "gave heed" to the things spoken by Paul,
             she and her household were baptized!
          3. Notice also her comment in Ac 16:15
             a. How could Paul have judged her to be faithful to the Lord?
             b. By her response to the command of the Lord concerning 
          1. Paul tells the jailor that he must believe on the Lord to be
             saved - Ac 16:30-31
          2. Paul went on to speak concerning the Word of the Lord to him
             and his family - Ac 16:32
          3. In response, they were immediately baptized! - Ac 16:33-34
             1) Evidently the word of the Lord stressed the need to be 
                baptized quickly
             2) In fact, in EVERY detailed example of conversion found in
                the Book of Acts, people were baptized after only one 
                lesson! (see chart below)
          1. Paul recounts his own conversion to the Lord - Ac 22:10-16
             a. He describes how he was told to go to Damascus, for there
       he would be told "all things appointed for you to do"
                ("what you must do" - cf. Ac 9:6)
             b. One of the things he was told was to be baptized without
                delay - Ac 22:16
          2. He was told to baptized in order to "wash away your sins"
             a. NOTE WELL: Despite seeing the Lord on the road to Damascus,
               having spent three days fasting and praying (Ac 9:9-11), he
                was STILL IN HIS SINS!
                1) Seeing the Lord had not saved him
                2) Accepting Jesus as Lord (cf. Ac 22:10) had not saved him
                3) Praying and fasting for three days had not saved him
             b. Not until he was baptized were his sins "washed away"! 
                (exactly how we will examine later)
    1. That baptism played a prominent role in apostolic preaching becomes    evident when we compare what is revealed in the examples of     conversion...
       Mt 28:18-20          EXAMPLES OF CONVERSION          Mk 16:15-16
       PENTECOST                       Repented                Baptized
       Ac 2:14-41                37-38                 38-41
       SAMARIA             Believed                            Baptized
       Ac 8:5-13              12                       12,13
       ETHIOPIAN           Believed                Confessed   Baptized
       Ac 8:35-39            36-37            37          38
       SAUL                                                    Baptized
       Ac 9,22,26                                      22:16
       CORNELIUS           Believed                            Baptized
       Ac 10:34-38            43                          48
       LYDIA               Heeded                              Baptized
       Ac 16:13-15           14                           15
       JAILOR              Believed                            Baptized
       Ac 16:30-34            31                          33
    2. In every case of conversion described in detail in the book of Acts,    baptism is mentioned...
       a. Clearly it is was an important theme of apostolic preaching    b. G. R. Beasley-Murray, a Baptist scholar, has observed:
          "Baptism is...a part of the proclamation of Christ. In an
       Apostolic sermon it comes as its logical conclusion."


  8. pokey

    pokey New Member

    I got this from http://www.biblepath.com/salvation12.html
    The word baptism is derived from the Greek word "baptizo" which means to immerse or submerge. Christian baptism symbolizes the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ Jesus. In Christian baptism, the one being baptized is testifying that they were in Christ Jesus on the cross of Calvary when sin was judged (2 Corinthians 5:21), that they died with Jesus, were buried with Him, and arose to a new life in Him (Romans 6:3-4).

    In the New Testament, Christian baptism is for Believers and represents their new life in Christ Jesus (2 Corinthians 5:17). It follows one's repentance towards God and faith in Jesus (Acts 2:38; 8:35-38). For one to be baptized in water apart from personal commitment to Christ Jesus is to no avail. If water baptism were a requirement for salvation, none who died prior to Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection would have been saved. Christian baptism is not required for salvation, but, rather, is a testimony of what has taken place in the life of the one being baptized, it's an act of obedience (Matthew 28:19), and is the first step towards discipleship.

    A pretty good explanation I think...
  9. Hervey

    Hervey Member

    Wow homebild, this teaching by Mark Copeland is a mess ! Talk about taking things out of context ! Then adding his own remarks when and whereever he desires !

    Where does it say we are suppose to be baptized in water ? Copeland never answered this question !

    Yes, baptism saves, but which baptism ?

    Being "baptized" into Christ's death - Romans 6:1 - 10

    Are not we cleansed from sin by the death and shedding of his blood ? > Romans 6:10 & 11. So then there is no need for water , which was John's baptism ?

    In Mark Copeland's teaching he states > "[Because baptism in water is somehow related to our salvation, Peter could speak of it as an antitype that saves us, just as Noah and his family were "saved through water"!

    What a lie !

    Noah and his family were saved "by" water, and that is only a figure of speech ! God saved Noah and his family because of the Faith of Noah, and Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. God told Noah how to build the Ark, because God was going to kill everything living creature upon the face of the earth.

    Water baptism does "Not" save ! Water baptism was for the "remission" of sins, not the "forgiveness" of sins. Being baptized into Christ's death and receiving the baptism of holy spirit upon you, is how you receive the "forgiveness" of sins, which "this" baptism does save.

    I Peter 3:21 tells us that "baptism" < and we are dealing with the death and resurrection here, also now saves us, buy the resurrection of Jesus Christ"

    Mark Copeland did not make reference to the fact that the baptism that Peter was speaking about was "not" water baptism, but what it says in Romans chapter 6 - that we were baptize into the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. To know this, all one would have to do is read the next couple of verses in I Peter 3. Context reveals ! After reading I Peter 3:20 & 21 - keep reading until you're finished reading verse 22.

    Love IN Christ - Hervey
  10. Hervey

    Hervey Member

    Here is an example of the "untruths" ( lies ) within Mark Copeland's teaching .

    Mark said > 2. He was told to baptized in order to "wash away your sins"
    a. NOTE WELL: Despite seeing the Lord on the road to Damascus,
    having spent three days fasting and praying (Ac 9:9-11), he
    1) Seeing the Lord had not saved him
    2) Accepting Jesus as Lord (cf. Ac 22:10) had not saved him
    3) Praying and fasting for three days had not saved him
    b. Not until he was baptized were his sins "washed away"!
    (exactly how we will examine later)

    #2 - Acts 22:10 does not even show or say anything about "Accepting Jesus as Lord" ! So why did Mark Copeland make such a claim ? ?

    Notice, look at 3) b -- notice anything wrong here ? Oh - you saw it - thats right - "No scripture reference" ! That is because Paul was "not" water baptized !

    But he was baptized into the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, as are all Christians.

    This part of his teaching is implying that one "needs" to be baptized by water , in order to be saved. Just another untruth (lie).

    These types of teachings , such as Mark Copelands teaching on baptism. Is nothing more than a teaching from a false teacher !

    "Water cleansing" (baptism) was a part of the law ! To "do" the law, one will fall from grace, and Christ will be no affect unto you - Galatians chapter 5.

    Love IN Christ - HErvey
  11. pokey

    pokey New Member

    All the scripture I posted was from the NT....am I being ignored because I am new??? :rolleyes:
  12. Hervey

    Hervey Member

    Hi Pokey:

    No, not at all. I liked your explanation. Except for one small statement - You said that Christian baptism was not required for salvation.

    On the contrary - being baptized into Christ's death was a very necessary baptism . If we did not die with Christ, then we were not baptized into his death.

    Love IN Christ - Hervey
  13. pokey

    pokey New Member

    So what about someone who asks Jesus to come into their hearts on Sunday morning at church and will be baptised Sunday night....but they are killed on the way home from church - are they going to hell just because they didn't get the chance to be baptised??
  14. rkbo

    rkbo Member

    Well Hervey we agree to a degree on this one. I would like to take a look at this.
    Acts 10:46-48
    46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
    47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
    48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

    These folks recieved the Holy Spirit, meaning they were born again Christians. That is "saved". Now they should not be forbad to be water bapized. The act of salvation being done by the Holy Spirit now the ordinance of baptizm should be done.
  15. barbara

    barbara New Member

    Hi Pokey,

    I admit, I am a very new Christian, but in answer to your question, I'd like to say, I believe that God knows what is truly in our heart, and only he can with certainty answer that question. I take by faith that God truly knows us and our motivations, and if they are in him, then we will be saved. I cannot back it up by scripture, 'cause I'm not sure which one would do it, but that's what I believe. Barbara
  16. rkbo

    rkbo Member

    Hi Babara: I think you are on the right track. I have a verse about the "heart" and about water baptizm.
    Acts 8:36-37
    36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
    37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
  17. homebild

    homebild New Member

    But Mr Copeland's treatise on baptism is the same teaching that orthodox believers since the first century have come to understand as the true gospel.

    In has only been in recent centuries that the significance and necessity of baptism has been diminished and even rejected.

    Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandments."

    Water Baptism in Christ is His command, and is, at the very least, our intial expression of our love for Him through obedience.

    One who rejects Christ's water baptism is not in full fellowship with Christ nor with His Body, for he remains unrepentant and uncircumcised in heart.

    Since you reject sound and clear teaching on the matter, I can only conclude that you are not part of Him
  18. edjones

    edjones Active Member

    I agree with Hervey.
    I believe N.T. Baptism is the answer of a good conscience toward God.

    Baptism doesn't = water in every case in the Bible.

    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

  19. Hervey

    Hervey Member

    Hi Pokey:

    The greatest record in the Word, of someone being saved by faith, and not of water baptism, is the theif on the cross.

    Simply ask yourself if he was water baptized. And if you say no, then you will know for sure, without any doubt in your mind, that water baptism does not save !

    As edjones said -- Baptism doesn't = water in every case in the bible.

    Baptism means - "to cleanse" , but "cleansing" does not just mean to take water , and get wet, and clean yourself.

    When Moses lead Israel out of bondage from Egypt . God used Moses, as the man of God to follow. The "faith" of Israel, to follow God by way of Moses, is something that is consistent throughout the Word of God. When they came to the red sea, the Egyptian soldiers were not far behind, and their intent was to kill everyone.

    God told Moses to have faith, and to lift his staff up toward heaven, and God would part the red sea, and all of Israel could pass through the sea without getting wet.

    The Apostle Paul tells us in I Corinth. 10:2 that all of Israel was "baptized" unto Moses in the cloud and the sea. This is a usage of the word "baptized" ( cleansed ), by them leaving their old ways in Egypt, where there were many idols , and idolatry worship of many gods. And by their faith to follow God by way of Moses. God "cleansed" ( baptized ) Isreal unto Moses, by the faith of Israel to follow Moses, as God worked in Moses, and God parted the red sea, and all Israel pass through without getting wet.

    Those who did get wet, were the soldiers of Egypt, who died when the sea closed back up , and fell down upon them. Yet, they were "not" baptized, and the soldiers are the one's who got wet.

    "All" salvation is by/through "faith".

    Israel by faith were saved from the Egyptian soldiers when they passed through the red sea.

    The thief on the cross was saved by faith, when he ask the Lord to remember him when he comes into his kingdom.

    And followers of the Lord Jesus Christ are saved by faith, when they believe that they have been saved , by the saving grace through our Lord Jesus Christ

    And Christians are saved from before the foundations of the world, to be holy and without blame in Christ in love. And our "faith" (believing) that we were saved (past tense) - not of works , but by grace, is still by "faith"

    Love IN Christ - HErvey
  20. Hervey

    Hervey Member


    Jesus Christ "never" commanded water baptism !

    In fact, he said the opposite !

    Acts 1:5 - "For John truly baptized with water, but now you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days hence"

    And you can conclude anything you would like about me, but what do you say about the theif on the cross whom Christ said that he would be with him in paradise , and he never was, nor did Jesus ever say to him that he needed to be water baptized before he could enter the kingdom. My gosh, the man was dying on the cross when these words were being spoken.

    What ? Is Jesus Christ a liar, and Mark Copeland a truth teller ?

    Love IN Christ - Hervey
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