Was the Reformation an Experiment gone wrong?

[Pfaffenhofen]

Whoa, there... ! We are ALL "bad men". I didn't mean to offend, I was responding to the statement that religion is made for politics. Him not torturing was automaticaly humane despite the political shrewdness of it?
His waiting till being on his deathbed to get baptized so that he would die free of sin is only worth a shrug because he recognized he needed to legalize what a lot of of his own soldiers were doing?

It is very, very difficult to offend me. Thanks, anyhow.
Of course, Constantin did that and more than that. He was a savage.
But ... 313 is an historic mark for Europe.

 

[Pfaffenhofen]

I am a Catholic and my wife is a Protestant. I thank God that we don't argue over doctrine or Church history. Otherwise, our "mixed marriage" would not work.

I think the Church recognizes that the children of the Reformation have been born into ways of worship that makes the Catholic liturgy seem unnatural, excepting for the "high churches."

Most Protestant churches center on what we Catholics call the homily, and of course music plays a big role as well. In other words, the style of worship is different, and we cannot fairly expect every Protestant to.convert over to a style of worship that seems foreign to them.

I think that the Church is looking towards Ecumenism rather than to relive the battles of the Reformation. For example, the Catholic Church and the Lutheran Church are now in agreement on the matter of faith and works.

Catholics need to reach out to their Protestant brethren and, yes, in many instances educate them to realize we are closer than they think. We believe in the same Lord.

Most of the anti-Catholic stuff about Mary, the saints, and the Pope stem from ignorance.

We need to concentrate on what we share in common rather than on reliving the old battles.

Education is all important.

I think yours is a sensible voice.
I am Catholic and came here to know Protestants.
Did I make mistakes in dialogue? I guess I do that everyday.
But at least I am trying to learn.
If i doing it well or badly, God knows...

 

[Pfaffenhofen]

I actually do not think it would be better nor wold we have the freedoms we now enjoy.

Freedoms? I realized in New York Central Bus Station, while waiting, perusing over a text in the wall, that it is forbidden to drink a beer in public. And 10 minutes earlier I was doing that...I knew that in Saudi Arabia they had those laws, now, in America! I could spend a night in jail, maybe...so much for American Freedom...

 

[iLogos]

Perhaps the reformers felt it was time to stop elevating a man to such a high level?

I recall Paul and other apostles correct men trying to bow to them. I don't recall the Pope ever stopping or correcting any one bowing to him.

 

[Albion]

OK, you may be proud of Henry VIII, I would not be.

OOooh. A really good example of a strawman argument. Someone was just asking today for an example.




How fast this disappeared--

I am Catholic and came here to know Protestants.

Sins are sins but

Anything to avoid the obvious, huh?

 

[whitetiger1]

Perhaps the reformers felt it was time to stop elevating a man to such a high level?

I recall Paul and other apostles correct men trying to bow to them. I don't recall the Pope ever stopping or correcting any one bowing to him.

They are not doing that to a human.

 

[iLogos]

They are not doing that to a human.

So no one bows to the Pope any more? Glad he finally corrected that practice.

 

[whitetiger1]

So no one bows to the Pope any more? Glad he finally corrected that practice.

Ultimate straw man

 

[athenken]

They are not doing that to a human.

Interesting, it certainly looks like they are bowing (or more specifically, prostrating) to a human.

 

[iLogos]

Get up! I'm just a man like you!

 

[iLogos]

Two Roman Catholic youth bow down and pray in front of the heart.

The golden box that holds the claimed to be holy heart of Saint Jean-Marie Baptiste Vianney

As for Popes? Just your average every day Egyptian King..

Such humble servants

 

[whitetiger1]

Interesting, it certainly looks like they are bowing (or more specifically, prostrating) to a human.

They are prostrating themselves before Christ in the Eucharist

 

[Pfaffenhofen]

Perhaps the reformers felt it was time to stop elevating a man to such a high level?

I recall Paul and other apostles correct men trying to bow to them. I don't recall the Pope ever stopping or correcting any one bowing to him.

Bowing before the Pope ?

ah! ah! ah! ah!ah! ah! ah! ah!ah! ah! ah! ah!ah! ah! ah! ah!ah! ah! ah! ah!ah! ah! ah! ah!ah! ah! ah! ah!ah! ah! ah! ah!ah! ah! ah! ah!ah! ah! ah! ah!ah! ah!

This is the best of the year and we are still in February....
I do not even answer this sentence...Someone who speaks this way must know it all...So, I am not going to tell the meaning of this part of the ceremony.
Nevertheless, my respect for my Protestant Brothers would not dare to suspect that would worship nothing but God and His Son Jesus Christ. No matter what their attitudes and ceremonies may puzzle me, I would not dare to think that their God would be anything but the Christian God...

 

[Pfaffenhofen]

Two Roman Catholic youth bow down and pray in front of the heart.

The golden box that holds the claimed to be holy heart of Saint Jean-Marie Baptiste Vianney

As for Popes? Just your average every day Egyptian King..

Such humble servants

I do not the story of the heart. Forget it...
Do you know why the Pope was carried that way? I would carry him if I had the chance? Do you know? Do you know?
Yes, you are right. According to you, He is a God who is worshiped by Catholics. Good appetite to that idea.
For Catholics, mainly short size Catholics, it was so that He may be seen by everybody. You know, Catholics are a congregation of 1 billion not a Denomination of 10 thousand. There are millions who come to Rome to see the Pope. So, they WANT TO SEE HIM, and as you have the right to say whatever comes to your mind, even wrong, they have a right to see Him. So, that was the traditional way. Your photo is outmoded...
But I will put it WORSHIPING the Pope (according to your idea) on modern days :

I have been in these crowds 4 times and I love (and do not worship) my Popes.

 

[Pfaffenhofen]

So no one bows to the Pope any more? Glad he finally corrected that practice.

I bow before the Pope. I kneel before the Pope. I kiss His Hand.
Sorry: He is not God. He is not Jesus Christ. I do not adore Him. I do not venerate Him as a saint. I do not worship him.
I am sorry to disappoint if I do not salute him like this:

Or like this guy before the referees D )

 

[Pfaffenhofen]

Interesting, it certainly looks like they are bowing (or more specifically, prostrating) to a human.

Good:looks like. You put it in the way I accept.
But look:

Millions more I can find that look like...but are not...

 

[Pfaffenhofen]

Get up! I'm just a man like you!

Get down to your knees before a man like you, Peter, on whose rock Jesus Christ built His Church....

 

[ebia]

I certainly dont agree with Benedict XVI on everything he says, but I've read enough to know he would have as much of a fit as Ss Paul and Barnabus did if thought people were worshipping him.

 

[ebia]

Interesting, it certainly looks like they are bowing (or more specifically, prostrating) to a human.

How do you know they are prostrating to the bishop and not God? Did you bother to check?

 

[Pfaffenhofen]

I certainly dont agree with Benedict XVI on everything he says, but I've read enough to know he would have as much of a fit as Ss Paul and Barnabus did if thought people were worshipping him.

I would never dare to say of a Protestant Brother of mine what he was worshiping nothing but God and Jesus Christ.

I only explain that somebody think that a Catholic worships anything but God by hate to the Catholics. Nothing but that.

Moreover, even of Jews and Muslims, I would not dare to say, looking to a picture or a photo, that they would be adoring a camel or a stone, or an Imam or whatever. I KNOW and I have sufficient culture to KNOW that they are adamant on the idea of One God.

Nevertheless, people are free to hate Catholics...