Was the original Catholic Church created by power hungry zealots?

redleghunter

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Quoting Catholic text to a Catholic is actually an argument for the Catholic position.
The catholic text in question teaches all in Christ are a holy priesthood. Not a separate sacerdotal class.
 
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SolomonVII

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The normal practice in Orthodox churches and was the case in more traditional Catholic ones, is to have the priest facing the front of the Church with the people. The intent is to show that the priesthood is not separate from the people.
 
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prodromos

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The normal practice in Orthodox churches and was the case in more traditional Catholic ones, is to have the priest facing the front of the Church with the people. The intent is to show that the priesthood is not separate from the people.
And in the Orthodox Church, a bishop or priest cannot serve the Divine Liturgy alone. There must be laity present. "λειτουργία" has always been understood to be a work of the people.
 
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mark kennedy

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Maybe later. There were multiple elders/overseers who came out to see Paul from Ephesus as he returned to Jerusalem.

Acts 20:17-28
Such an interesting point, I don't know why I never saw that before. The term Bishop really correlates with the office of elder which was a team of senior saints, the team in Antioch (Syria) had five members, and commissioned all three of the missionary journeys of Paul. How different from the idea of there being only one Bishop governing a specific area. I think you have something there Red, interesting insight.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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mark kennedy

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And in the Orthodox Church, a bishop or priest cannot serve the Divine Liturgy alone. There must be laity present. "λειτουργία" has always been understood to be a work of the people.
Do you believe the term Bishop correlates to the term 'elder', just curious really.
 
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prodromos

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Maybe later. There were multiple elders/overseers who came out to see Paul from Ephesus as he returned to Jerusalem.

Acts 20:17-28
That's true. As I have already stated, the Church was in its infancy and this was the model which worked while the churches were small and centralised. As the Church grew in numbers and spread over larger areas, it matured and adapted. If it remained as it was in the New Testament, the logistics of dealing with widespread heresies which had begun to spring up within the Church as St Paul had foretold, would have been insurmountable. Even if just one of the elders from each church attended council, there would have been thousands involved. Nothing would be decided and heresy would go unchecked, tearing apart the Church.
Instead, by having one bishop responsible for all the churches in a city or geographical area, it kept the numbers manageable and enabled the Church to deal effectively with heresies as they arose.
 
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prodromos

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Maybe later. There were multiple elders/overseers who came out to see Paul from Ephesus as he returned to Jerusalem.

Acts 20:17-28
This is also how the Church in Rome was initially governed, which is why no one can agree on a list of succession for the early bishops of Rome.
 
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Root of Jesse

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The Catholic priesthood is a distinct class which presides over the sacrifice of the mass.
Same as your ordained ministry. Not a separate class, though they have duties which can't be done by anyone else.
 
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Root of Jesse

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No what was said was how the Eucharist or Holy Communion became the sacrifice of the mass.
How the Eucharist became the sacrifice of the mass is that the apostles were told to do this in remembrance of Me, and they did.
 
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Root of Jesse

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What you describe cannot be found in the NT. That was the point. It was a later development.
Matthias took the place of Judas. Apostolic succession, which was further practiced as the apostles died.
 
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Root of Jesse

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Her reaction to Jesus starting his ministry was to try to get him to come home (Matthew 12:47-49). Your interpretation of Revelation 12 completely igbores the context of Revelation 11 that clearly says this is 3 1\2 years into the Tribulation, the sounding of the trumpets, the ministry of the two prophets, the abomination that causes desolation, the repentance and flight of Israel from the Antichrist. Your allegorizing a text that is clearly and obviously describing Israel.
Her reaction to Him starting his ministry? Not quite. She said, paraphrasing, "Do something. I know you can." He said "It's not my time." She said not one other word to him, as though He would do whatever she suggested. She pushed him to start his ministry. "A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and on her head a crown of 12 stars..." who was with child and gave birth to Jesus. Who gave birth to Jesus? Mary, who was shown as a queen alive in heaven. That's just the way it is, and always was, understood by the Catholic Church.
 
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Root of Jesse

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It wasn't a nisunderstandoing, he told them they wanted him to be king because they ate and there bellies were filled. He said you must believe in me and they turned and followed him no more. Pretty cut and dried.
Wrong. He stated that they must eat his flesh and drink his blood to have eternal life, and they were disgusted and left. They misunderstood him. That, my friend, is the cut and dry.
 
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