• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Was the Nicene Creed divinely inspired?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Apex, Jul 15, 2017.

  1. Apex

    Apex Mind Reformer

    698
    +307
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    As a succinct statement of faith, those who composed this creed had to make several interpretational and semantic decisions. I happen to agree with them, but...

    Was the Nicene Creed divinely inspired?
    If so, does this make it equal to divinely inspired Scripture?
    If not, how can we trust it is perfectly without error?
     
  2. 2PhiloVoid

    2PhiloVoid One man's trash........ is another man's Treasure! Supporter

    +1,984
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    ...I'm going to have to go with my Restorationist Movement's point of view on this. However, I do very much appreciate how the Nicene Creed sums things up into a tidy, but detailed, statement of faith. :cool:
     
  3. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

    +2,204
    Christian
    Single
    Best I can tell, CF does not allow us to speak our minds on this particular subject unless are thoughts are positive.
     
  4. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

    +12,770
    Anglican
    Married
    I don't believe there's any reason to think that.
     
  5. PloverWing

    PloverWing Episcopalian

    556
    +532
    Anglican
    Married
    I see the Nicene Creed, and the other statements that came out of early ecumenical councils, as carrying the authority that comes from the wide agreement of a large group of church leaders who were well-educated in their faith and were trying to be faithful to the God they loved and served. Thus, a human (and fallible) authority, but one well worth listening to.

    I don't see the creed as inspired in the sense of dictated word-for-word by God to human scribes; but God was present and active in the lives of the people who produced the creed. You might or might not want to call that "inspiration".
     
  6. -V-

    -V- Well-Known Member

    +488
    Non-Denom
    Single
    It certainly may have been inspired by God, but it is not "divinely inspired" in the same sense as the Bible.

    How do we know if it has errors? By comparing what it says to the Bible.

    I agree with what it says, but I do think it could have been worded slightly better. The way it's written sounds a bit confused in regards to who God is.

    It seems to start out saying the Father is *the* one God, then adds Jesus as also being God (but didn't it just say the Father is the only God?). Then it adds the Holy Spirit as being "worshiped with the Father & Son". Is that supposed to mean He is worshiped, but isn't God? Or is He God also, despite originally saying the Father is the only God?

    (Note that *I* don't have these questions, I believe the Trinity. I'm simply pointing out that the specific wording of the Creed seems a bit awkward.)
     
  7. Apex

    Apex Mind Reformer

    698
    +307
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Is it possible for it to be in error?
     
  8. Apex

    Apex Mind Reformer

    698
    +307
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    I'll have to check the rules. Thanks. I accept the Nicene Creed, but seems odd we can't honestly explore what this means.
     
  9. Apex

    Apex Mind Reformer

    698
    +307
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    I've been doing some research on inerrancy. Since the Scriptures are divinely inspired, this also means they are inerrant or infallible. The reverse seems to be true too. I came across this article in the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia under Infallibility.

    "While such concepts as infallibility, inerrancy, and reliability have commonly been predicated of the Scriptures, they are theological rather than biblical terms. Because they arose within the Church’s theological reflection upon its Scriptures, their validity cannot be deduced from biblical usage. Their validity and justification, therefore, depend on their serviceability in expressing the Bible’s own thought about itself. For only what the Bible thinks about itself belongs to the truth of the Bible and to that faith which must be surely believed. Everything else lacks those qualities of infallibility, inerrancy, authority, and trustworthiness that adhere alone in the nature of the Church’s sacred writings."

    I agree with the conclusions of the Nicene Creed, but what does it mean if we can't assign the qualities of inspiration or inerrancy to it?
     
  10. -V-

    -V- Well-Known Member

    +488
    Non-Denom
    Single
    It means that its truth is not dependent on itself. As I already said, it is dependent on being verified by Scripture.
     
  11. Apex

    Apex Mind Reformer

    698
    +307
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Does that mean it isn't immutable like Scripture too?
     
  12. PeaceB

    PeaceB Well-Known Member

    +502
    United States
    Catholic
    In Relationship
    Well of course not. But each person's private interpretation of Scripture on the other hand, those are definitely inspired.
     
  13. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

    +2,204
    Christian
    Single
    I agree. I've never gotten into any official trouble for it but I have had two mods call me on comments that I simply didn't subscribe to it, one telling me I could get a warning (appreciated). So technically you may not be in violation with the OP, but I'm sure you can understand why my comment.

    I think the site doesn't consider one Christian unless they accept the NC.
     
  14. -V-

    -V- Well-Known Member

    +488
    Non-Denom
    Single
    Of course the Nicene Creed isn't immutable.
     
  15. Apex

    Apex Mind Reformer

    698
    +307
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    The implications of this would suggest that the Nicene Creed has the potential to be further modified. Looking at the history of the Nicene Creed, it appears that the one we commonly call the Nicene Creed (Niceno–Constantinopolitan Creed, 381 AD) is actually a modification of the original one first drafted in 325 AD.
     
  16. -V-

    -V- Well-Known Member

    +488
    Non-Denom
    Single
    Yes, it has been modified, and the potential exists for it to be modified again.
     
  17. Apex

    Apex Mind Reformer

    698
    +307
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    I sometimes wish God would have inspired Paul to write out a formal and systematic statement of faith.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2017
  18. Apex

    Apex Mind Reformer

    698
    +307
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Now this is more like it:

    paulsystheo.png
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2017
  19. Halbhh

    Halbhh Hubble telescope saw in empty sky....galaxies! Supporter

    +701
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    When I first heard it in a church service about 7 years ago, I was surprised to hear the congregation reciting it, as an act, and I felt a need to investigate each phrase that sounded a bit newish to me. I worried about exactly your question -- is it all true, or does it have new error we have introduced?

    But, that's not hard, and most anyone will recognize right off that most parts they already know are true, so only some parts might need a close look.
    Here are the U.S. conference of Catholic Bishop and the Reformed versions --

    The Nicene Creed

    (Catholic version)
    I believe in one God,
    the Father almighty,
    maker of heaven and earth,
    of all things visible and invisible.

    I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
    the Only Begotten Son of God,
    born of the Father before all ages.
    God from God, Light from Light,
    true God from true God,
    begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
    through him all things were made.
    For us men and for our salvation
    he came down from heaven,
    and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
    and became man.
    For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
    he suffered death and was buried,
    and rose again on the third day
    in accordance with the Scriptures.
    He ascended into heaven
    and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
    He will come again in glory
    to judge the living and the dead
    and his kingdom will have no end.

    I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
    who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
    who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
    who has spoken through the prophets.

    I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
    I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
    and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
    and the life of the world to come. Amen.
    ----

    (Reformed version)

    We believe in one God,
    the Father almighty,
    maker of heaven and earth,
    of all things visible and invisible.

    And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
    the only Son of God,
    begotten from the Father before all ages,
    God from God,
    Light from Light,
    true God from true God,
    begotten, not made;
    of the same essence as the Father.
    Through him all things were made.
    For us and for our salvation
    he came down from heaven;
    he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary,
    and was made human.
    He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate;
    he suffered and was buried.
    The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures.
    He ascended to heaven
    and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
    He will come again with glory
    to judge the living and the dead.
    His kingdom will never end.

    And we believe in the Holy Spirit,
    the Lord, the giver of life.
    He proceeds from the Father and the Son,
    and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified.
    He spoke through the prophets.
    We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church.
    We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
    We look forward to the resurrection of the dead,
    and to life in the world to come. Amen.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2017
  20. Apex

    Apex Mind Reformer

    698
    +307
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    I am not saying parts of the creed are not true. I'm just curious about the integrity of the creed itself. For example, CF has deemed it necessary to clarify what "catholic" and "one baptism for the remission of sins" means. Instead of the asterix, why don't modern Christians just add these clarifying marks into the creed itself? Or at least update the wording?
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2017
Loading...