Was the Mystery Hidden in Prophecy?

[Danoh]

Was the Mystery Hidden in Prophecy?

graceambassadors.com/mystery/was-the-mystery-hidden-in-prophecy

“…the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began…” – Rom 16:25

This should be clear enough, but it is often rejected by claiming that the mystery of Christ was prophesied but hidden in the old testament, the law, or the promises given to Abraham.

This is an outright denial of what Paul says by inspiration that the mystery of Christ was “kept secret since the world began”.

If something was revealed since the world began until Paul, it can not be the mystery of Christ revealed to Paul.

“Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:” – Col 1:26

The mystery was hidden from past ages of time. There is no time in the past in which this mystery was made known, until now.

“But Peter says the prophets prophesied of grace in 1 Pet 1:10”

Then what was prophesied about grace cannot be the mystery of Christ, even if they did not understand what they prophesied.

That they prophesied at all means God revealed and did not keep it secret (Deu 29:29).

God’s word says the mystery was hid “from generations”. There is no generation of men that was given this information until Paul.

“Then, where was the mystery of Christ hid if not in the Old Testament writings?”

Eph 3:9 explains that the mystery was “from the beginning of the world hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ”.

God the creator, before the world began, decided to keep this mystery a secret, hidden, and unknown until He revealed it to the apostle Paul by the Spirit (Eph 3:3-5; Gal 1:15-16; Rom 15:15-16).

It was not hidden in the Old Testament writings, nor in the New Testament writings, nor in the promises given to Abraham.

“But the prophets did speak of Christ’s death, forgiveness of sins, and grace to Gentiles.”

Then those things cannot be the mystery kept secret, unknown to ages and generations, hidden from the beginning in God as the Scripture states.

If the mystery was in prophecy then it ceases to be a mystery.

This is the foundation of rightly dividing the word of truth, and the only way to keep from denying the secret nature of the mystery.

To Paul was revealed the mystery of Christ’s headship in heaven with one body called the church united to him freely by God’s grace through Christ’s death, blood, and resurrection.

This mystery of Christ is not found at all in prophecy.

If something was revealed since the world began until Paul, it cannot be the mystery of Christ revealed first to Paul.

“This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.” – Eph 5:32

 

[FIRESTORM314]

Was the Mystery Hidden in Prophecy?

If the mystery was in prophecy then it ceases to be a mystery.

Not at all - the mystery is still hidden to those who cannot see it.

Faith in Christ himself is the key that unlocks the Mystery. Without a revelation of Christ the message is still hidden to those that can't see Christ. Even if you point out the words and scripture that reveal Christ - they cannot see it. Paul saw Christ first then he understood the scriptures. Faith comes from hearing the word and the Holy Spirit is the one who reveals him to those that accept the word.

Jesus made the invisible God visible but only to those that receive him. They didn't just get a revelation of the written word - they got a revelation of God himself.

Colossians 1:15
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

I think

 

[ac28]

Absolutely!!!

 

[LastSeven]

Then what was prophesied about grace cannot be the mystery of Christ

I think you're reading too much into what Paul said. When he said it was "kept secret" he didn't mean it wasn't prophesied about or talked about. He simply meant Jesus did not appear until the time that he did, and so he was hidden, in a sense. Perhaps the word "secret" is not the best translation.

 

[FIRESTORM314]

And that revelation was...

Christ IN YOU the hope of Glory.

You can't possibly KNOW that until you have experienced it.

COLOSSIANS 1
the mystery that was hidden for ages and generations but is now revealed to His saints, 27to whom God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. 28We proclaim Him, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone perfect in Christ.…

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The mystery hidden was the church, or That Christ himself would be the suffering servant spoken of in the OT as the one who would take away the sins of the people. (The OT view of the messiah and suffering servant appeared to be 2 different people. The messiah would be king and looked up to and never die. The suffering servant would be looked down on, and die) You could also say the 2 advents of the messiah was hidden (the OT appears to show only one advent, where he restores Israel and rules the world)

This is why up to the very end, the disciples themselves could not even understand that the christ must die.

Remember, the whole issue was Satan's lie against God, The Lie was that God was nto a loving God, but a dictator who demanded you do his will, you were basically his puppet. How did God destroy that lie? By getting satan himself to kill the Christ, If Satan knew Christ came to die for sins, He never would have done what he did to make sure the messiah was killed. Satan killed Christ and God allowed him to because as Paul said in Col, God disarmed the powers that be and made a spectacle of them, by using them as a means to coerce men to kill the messiah.

As I heard once, and it made a powerful statement, Imagine Satan wherever he is, having a party because he has prevented the messiah from gaining power and setting up his kingdom on earth (since God hid the truth from him) then Jesus starts to quote Psalm 52. all of a sudden, Satan remembers, God used him to destroy his own lie. and never again will the lie be able to be used again.

 

[ac28]

The mystery hidden was the church, or That Christ himself would be the suffering servant spoken of in the OT as the one who would take away the sins of the people. (The OT view of the messiah and suffering servant appeared to be 2 different people. The messiah would be king and looked up to and never die. The suffering servant would be looked down on, and die) You could also say the 2 advents of the messiah was hidden (the OT appears to show only one advent, where he restores Israel and rules the world)

This is why up to the very end, the disciples themselves could not even understand that the christ must die.

Remember, the whole issue was Satan's lie against God, The Lie was that God was nto a loving God, but a dictator who demanded you do his will, you were basically his puppet. How did God destroy that lie? By getting satan himself to kill the Christ, If Satan knew Christ came to die for sins, He never would have done what he did to make sure the messiah was killed. Satan killed Christ and God allowed him to because as Paul said in Col, God disarmed the powers that be and made a spectacle of them, by using them as a means to coerce men to kill the messiah.

As I heard once, and it made a powerful statement, Imagine Satan wherever he is, having a party because he has prevented the messiah from gaining power and setting up his kingdom on earth (since God hid the truth from him) then Jesus starts to quote Psalm 52. all of a sudden, Satan remembers, God used him to destroy his own lie. and never again will the lie be able to be used again.

I see that you have made 5 posts today, and you accomplished all that without quoting ANY scripture to back up what you said, not even once. You must think that everyone knows that you are always correct and that they will accept whatever you say as gospel (no pun intended), without scriptural proof. Not on this forum.

If you had any knowledge of the 3 basic forms of dispensationalism, you would have known that the mystery in question is the 1st one below, Rom 16:25-26. As far as I know, it's the only mystery said to be found in the scriptures of the prophets. Danoh, the OP, is an Acts 9 dispensationalist (A9D). Danoh says that this means, "scriptural writings" and that the scripture it is found in is in Paul's post-Acts epistles, seeing that, since Paul prophesied about the end times in 2Tim, he can be called a prophet. The A9D are very devious and, like the Catholics and The JWs, they have many fake inventions that seem right to the ignorant. Never accept anything they say at face value. Think about it and look for sleight-of-hand.

The A9D MUST prove that the mysteries in Rom and Eph/Col are the same in order to prove that Paul's Acts dispensation is the same as his post-Acts dispensation. Anyone that can read objectively knows that is pure malarkey.

You could probably show these 2 verses below to 100 knowledgeable Christians, who are not A9D, and all 100 would say that it means the OT prophets and they would be right, especially after Paul said, in Ac 26:22, that everything he taught was based on the OT.

Rom 16:25-26
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Danoh does that in a futile attempt to prove that the mystery in Romans is the same as this one. That way, he can retain the rapture in his spiel, even thought he'll never get it. It's only for the elite of Israel and those few saved Gentiles in Acts who were grafted into Israel. That way he can suck in the fools that don't want to give up the fake rapture.
Eph 3:9
And to make all men see what is the fellowship (dispensation) of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Col 1:25-26
25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

There are at least 7 different mysteries (secrets) in the NT. Some say there are 15. but some may be duplicates, although they have different titles. Since they were all once a secret, they were all hidden somewhere, until they were revealed.

Here's why Danoh is wrong.
1- Since there are from 7-15 different Mysteries in the NT and very little are told about any of them, how could one prove they were the same mystery. Very difficult, if not impossible. In order to prove his point, Danoh would have to prove, with scripture, that these 2 mysteries are identical in their makeup.

There are 4 or 5 different mysteries in the prison epistles and it's hard enough keeping them separate. The one in Eph 3:9 and Col 1:25-26 (and several other places) is the one in question. It is the dispensation that fulfils, or COMPLETES, the Word of God to humanity. The one in Romans is the Mystery of Christ.

2- These are more logical reasons. Prophecy is the prediction that something specific will occur in the future. When it does occur, it is called the fulfillment of prophecy. Danoh cannot be correct for 2 reasons.
-----(A) If they are the same mystery, that would make Paul a liar, since, in Romans, he said it was hid in "prophetic writings" and in Eph. it was hid in God. Can't have both.
-----(B) In order to be a "prophetic writing", it would have to be written somewhere in scripture before it actually occurred. In what specific scripture was it prophesied? The answer, of course, is the same as (A). It was hid in God and therefore it is impossible that it appeared prophetically anymore, whether in the OT or the NT.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I see that you have made 5 posts today, and you accomplished all that without quoting ANY scripture to back up what you said, not even once. You must think that everyone knows that you are always correct and that they will accept whatever you say as gospel (no pun intended), without scriptural proof. Not on this forum.

So you judging me without knowing me is ok? I have been a dispensationalist since i was born agian as a young child (over 40 years). i have been taught different forms of dispensationalsim, and if you read my posts, you would see that i said there are differing views.

If your trying to welcome someone and show the love of christ in doing it, you failed miserably.

If you had any knowledge of the 3 basic forms of dispensationalism, you would have known that the mystery in question is the 1st one below, Rom 16:25-26. As far as I know, it's the only mystery said to be found in the scriptures of the prophets. Danoh, the OP, is an Acts 9 dispensationalist (A9D). Danoh says that this means, "scriptural writings" and that the scripture it is found in is in Paul's post-Acts epistles, seeing that, since Paul prophesied about the end times in 2Tim, he can be called a prophet. The A9D are very devious and, like the Catholics and The JWs, they have many fake inventions that seem right to the ignorant. Never accept anything they say at face value. Think about it and look for sleight-of-hand.

The A9D MUST prove that the mysteries in Rom and Eph/Col are the same in order to prove that Paul's Acts dispensation is the same as his post-Acts dispensation. Anyone that can read objectively knows that is pure malarkey.

You could probably show these 2 verses below to 100 knowledgeable Christians, who are not A9D, and all 100 would say that it means the OT prophets and they would be right, especially after Paul said, in Ac 26:22, that everything he taught was based on the OT.

Rom 16:25-26
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Danoh does that in a futile attempt to prove that the mystery in Romans is the same as this one. That way, he can retain the rapture in his spiel, even thought he'll never get it. It's only for the elite of Israel and those few saved Gentiles in Acts who were grafted into Israel. That way he can suck in the fools that don't want to give up the fake rapture.
Eph 3:9
And to make all men see what is the fellowship (dispensation) of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Col 1:25-26
25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

There are at least 7 different mysteries (secrets) in the NT. Some say there are 15. but some may be duplicates, although they have different titles. Since they were all once a secret, they were all hidden somewhere, until they were revealed.

Here's why Danoh is wrong.
1- Since there are from 7-15 different Mysteries in the NT and very little are told about any of them, how could one prove they were the same mystery. Very difficult, if not impossible. In order to prove his point, Danoh would have to prove, with scripture, that these 2 mysteries are identical in their makeup.

There are 4 or 5 different mysteries in the prison epistles and it's hard enough keeping them separate. The one in Eph 3:9 and Col 1:25-26 (and several other places) is the one in question. It is the dispensation that fulfils, or COMPLETES, the Word of God to humanity. The one in Romans is the Mystery of Christ.

2- These are more logical reasons. Prophecy is the prediction that something specific will occur in the future. When it does occur, it is called the fulfillment of prophecy. Danoh cannot be correct for 2 reasons.
-----(A) If they are the same mystery, that would make Paul a liar, since, in Romans, he said it was hid in "prophetic writings" and in Eph. it was hid in God. Can't have both.
-----(B) In order to be a "prophetic writing", it would have to be written somewhere in scripture before it actually occurred. In what specific scripture was it prophesied? The answer, of course, is the same as (A). It was hid in God and therefore it is impossible that it appeared prophetically anymore, whether in the OT or the NT.

Not sure what your talking about her in relation to my post, can you please if you want t judge me show me what you disagree with?

 

[Danoh]

I see that you have made 5 posts today, and you accomplished all that without quoting ANY scripture to back up what you said, not even once. You must think that everyone knows that you are always correct and that they will accept whatever you say as gospel (no pun intended), without scriptural proof. Not on this forum.

If you had any knowledge of the 3 basic forms of dispensationalism, you would have known that the mystery in question is the 1st one below, Rom 16:25-26. As far as I know, it's the only mystery said to be found in the scriptures of the prophets. Danoh, the OP, is an Acts 9 dispensationalist (A9D). Danoh says that this means, "scriptural writings" and that the scripture it is found in is in Paul's post-Acts epistles, seeing that, since Paul prophesied about the end times in 2Tim, he can be called a prophet. The A9D are very devious and, like the Catholics and The JWs, they have many fake inventions that seem right to the ignorant. Never accept anything they say at face value. Think about it and look for sleight-of-hand.

The A9D MUST prove that the mysteries in Rom and Eph/Col are the same in order to prove that Paul's Acts dispensation is the same as his post-Acts dispensation. Anyone that can read objectively knows that is pure malarkey.

You could probably show these 2 verses below to 100 knowledgeable Christians, who are not A9D, and all 100 would say that it means the OT prophets and they would be right, especially after Paul said, in Ac 26:22, that everything he taught was based on the OT.

Rom 16:25-26
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Danoh does that in a futile attempt to prove that the mystery in Romans is the same as this one. That way, he can retain the rapture in his spiel, even thought he'll never get it. It's only for the elite of Israel and those few saved Gentiles in Acts who were grafted into Israel. That way he can suck in the fools that don't want to give up the fake rapture.
Eph 3:9
And to make all men see what is the fellowship (dispensation) of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Col 1:25-26
25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

There are at least 7 different mysteries (secrets) in the NT. Some say there are 15. but some may be duplicates, although they have different titles. Since they were all once a secret, they were all hidden somewhere, until they were revealed.

Here's why Danoh is wrong.
1- Since there are from 7-15 different Mysteries in the NT and very little are told about any of them, how could one prove they were the same mystery. Very difficult, if not impossible. In order to prove his point, Danoh would have to prove, with scripture, that these 2 mysteries are identical in their makeup.

There are 4 or 5 different mysteries in the prison epistles and it's hard enough keeping them separate. The one in Eph 3:9 and Col 1:25-26 (and several other places) is the one in question. It is the dispensation that fulfils, or COMPLETES, the Word of God to humanity. The one in Romans is the Mystery of Christ.

2- These are more logical reasons. Prophecy is the prediction that something specific will occur in the future. When it does occur, it is called the fulfillment of prophecy. Danoh cannot be correct for 2 reasons.
-----(A) If they are the same mystery, that would make Paul a liar, since, in Romans, he said it was hid in "prophetic writings" and in Eph. it was hid in God. Can't have both.
-----(B) In order to be a "prophetic writing", it would have to be written somewhere in scripture before it actually occurred. In what specific scripture was it prophesied? The answer, of course, is the same as (A). It was hid in God and therefore it is impossible that it appeared prophetically anymore, whether in the OT or the NT.

Personally, I have believed that your confused understanding has merely been a result of incompetence on your part.

Case in point, in Scripture, a Prophet is merely someone who speaks for or on behalf of someone else.

In the case of a Prophet of God: such is sone through whom the LORD speaks, tells forth, or makes His will known.

Said forth telling is much more the case in Scripture than foretelling some future event is.

Exodus 7:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. 7:2 Thou shalt speak all that I command thee: and Aaron thy brother shall speak unto Pharaoh, that he send the children of Israel out of his land.

Numbers 12:6 And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.

Deuteronomy 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

Deuteronomy 18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.

Jeremiah 27:14 Therefore hearken not unto the words of the prophets that speak unto you, saying, Ye shall not serve the king of Babylon: for they prophesy a lie unto you.

Jeremiah 23:16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD.

In this, the Apostle Paul had been both kinds of Prophet - forth-teller of God's Words through Paul, and fore-teller of various future events through him.

Fore-telling...

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Forth-telling...

1 Corinthians 14:36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

Overall narrative, scope, and context determine the intended sense of any word, and or phrase.

Thus, this...

Romans 16:24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: 16:27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.

Is this...

Romans 15:15 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God, 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 15:17 I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God. 15:18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed, 15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ. 15:20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation: 15:21 But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand.

Of course, that passages like that last one, there, throw you 28ers off.

Because your study approach is off.

As for the rest of your post, til your above dribble, I had never believed you were up to no good, going in.

Merely that you never learned how to properly study these things out.

Big difference.

It is why I have always signed off with the words "Romans 14:5, in memory of Romans 5:6-8 - in each...our stead."

Still, misrepresent, and slander away all you need to, if you think that somehow helps prove your case.

I know it does not.

And I know that up until now, I had always given you the benefit of the doubt (Rom. 14:5).

But most of all, I know...the Lord.

And that, is all the fair treatment from anyone, that anyone could ever need - Amen!

2 Corinthians 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Bring it on , Ac - Romans 5:8-9 is more than sufficient. Always!

 

[ac28]

Danoh,

As usual, you have used a lot of gobblety-gook to say nothing. For word definitions, I use 2 sources, Strong's (mainly) and Bullinger's Critical Lexicon and Concordance (sometimes). Bullinger was essentially mid-Acts when he wrote that book. There are several definitions but, for the phrase, "the Prophets", it most always refers to the OT Prophets.

In the NT, the phrase, "the Prophets", plural, is used 56 times - twice in 1Cor 14, where it is used for those who then had the Gift of prophesy. Of course, those Gifts ceased to exist when Israel was fully set aside in Ac 28:25-27. There are 3 instances of "the Prophets" in Revelation, but those are all future. That leaves 51 cases, 50 which, by context, are obviously the Prophets, which wrote the books of "the Prophets" in the OT. That leaves one, the verse in question, Rom 16:26, which says, "the scriptures (plural) of the Prophets (plural)." Neither "the's" are in italics. Unless they had a hidden, biased agenda, only a fool would truly believe that the "scripture of the Prophets" would refer to anything but the scripture of the OT Prophets. And, in all 56 occurrences of "the Prophets" in the NT, there is zero reason to believe that any of those don't fall into the Strong's definition of a Prophet being, "one who speaks forth by divine inspiration". NONE of them fit, by context or by common sense, any other definition. If the occurrence in Rom 16:25-26 means, "prophetical writings" that were written by Paul the prophet, as you suggest, the other 50 occurrences could have been the same, which is absurd.

Your hidden agenda is to prove that Paul's After-Acts epistles are just a progressive continuation of His Acts epistles, and you desperately need to prove that the mystery in Romans 16 is the same mystery as in Paul's new dispensation found only in his post-Acts epistles, in order to prevent your mansion built purely out of straw from being blown away. My new list of why this is impossible.

(1) The mystery in Romans was absolutely hid in the OT scriptures of the Prophets. Any deviation from this is an obvious dishonest attempt to twist the scriptures to fit one's private agenda. The mystery in Ephesians and Colossians was hid in God until revealed After Acts, just like it says it was. Things that differ are not the same.
(2) Prophets, plural, means more than one. Since only Paul wrote after Acts, and assuming he was a prophet, it is impossible that more than one prophet could have written about the mystery hid in God and found only in Eph and Col.
(3) Paul never said he was a prophet and no other writer said Paul was a prophet. The "Last Days", covered in 2Tim 3, was also discussed 3 times in the OT and 3 other times in the NT, by 3 different NT writers. Paul could have learned about the last days from those others. Or, he could of had the gift of prophecy during Acts and applied what he remembered from that in 2Tim. Anyway, questioning what the scriptures say is just dishonest BS
(4) If they are the same mystery, that would make Paul a liar, since, in Romans, he said it was hid in "prophetic writings", whether OT or NT, and in Eph. it says it was hid in God. Can't have both.
(5) In order to be a "prophetic writing", it would have to be written somewhere in scripture before it actually occurred. In what specific scripture was it prophesied? The answer, of course, is the same as (A). It was hid in God and therefore it is impossible that it appeared prophetically anymore, whether in the OT or the NT.
(6) Depending on who writes about them, there are somewhere between 7 to 15 different "mysteries" in the NT. To prove the mysteries in Rom and Col are the same, you would have to first figure out WHICH mystery is in Rom and WHICH is in Col. Good luck.
(7) The mystery in Eph and Col is about the Gentiles, alone, without the existence of Israel. This portion, of the ongoing mystery of Christ, tells us that our calling is in the highest Heaven, where Christ sits at the right hand of God. It tells us that our resurrection hope occurs when we are translated to these Heavenly places, the instant before He appears to His creation in Heavenly Places. My favorite version of Phil 3:20
"But for us, the commonwealth of God exists in the heavens, from where also we are waiting for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;"
Col 3:1-4
1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

I sometimes believe that all the mysteries, or secrets, in the Bible are parts of the Mystery of Christ, starting in Gen 1:1, and they are dealt out to us progressively. The latest revelation of a secret is that the Gentiles are now (temporarily) the chosen people, Eph 1:4. They have a calling of heaven, which no one during the entirety of Acts had. They are Christ's actual Body (Eph 5:30) where He is the Head. It's not like the body in 1Cor 12, where some members are part of the head - eye and ear. Actually, everything in 1Cor 12 is about the gifts, which no longer exist. Same with 1Cor 14. All dead and gone.

Hey Danoh. What is Acts 28:25-27 all about? In Rom 11:8, about Ac 20, it sure seems like Paul partly pronounced the curse of Isa 6:9-10 on Israel, which made them partly blinded. They certainly set aside before that. Of course,they weren't completely set aside. Just a few branches were broken off to allow room for some Gentiles to be grafted in, later in Rom 11. Also, why was Paul still going to the Jew in Ac 28, 5 years after Romans was written?

Every time Isa 6:9-10 was quoted, something bad happened to Israel. It was quoted by Christ in Mt 13:14-15 and Christ went into a mystery phase, where everything he spoke to the Pharisees was in the form of parables, so that the Pharisees wouldn't understand anything he said. At that point, they were partly set aside and this only reversed when Christ, at the cross, asked His Father to forgive them. So, hey got a 2nd chance to accept Christ during Acts during Acts. They muffed that, starting in Rom 11, with partial blindness. Then, in Acts 28:25-27, Paul quoted Isa 6:9-10 fully annd we haven't heard from Israel in nearly 2000 years. The full setting aside of Israel didn't happen until Ac 28.

What went on here, Dan? Sure looks like a crisis point to me. Why do A9D never talk about it?
Ac 28:25-27 ?
25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

A9D also never talk about this verse. What does it mean the Salvation of God was sent to the Gentiles, at that time? Didn't they have Salvation before then? If they didn't, doesn't that screw up all that grace stuff you say started for Gentiles in Acts 9, 26 years before? I think the Salvation of God is Jesus Christ. We know the Gentiles didn't have Christ or God during the time they were called the uncircumcision by the Circumcision, Eph 2:11-12. The only time in the Bible where the word uncircumcision is ever used to address Gentiles is during the Acts period
Ac 28:28
28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

No one ever seems to understand the ONLY purpose of Acts. It certainly wasn't to start a Gentile church or a Jew/Gentile church!!! It's ONLY purpose, from start to finish, was to convince Israel to repent and accept Christ as the promised Messiah. Why. because Christ said He would not return until that happened - see Mt 23:39 and Ac 3:19-21, and all those verses that say John the Baptist would have been Elijah, had Israel accepted Christ. And, until Israel repents, Elijah returns and restores ALL things, Israel's earthly K of H will never start. Paul's only purpose was to convert Israel. The ONLY purpose of the Gifts were to provide a better witness to and to provide signs, which Israel required if they were ever to convert. The ONLY purpose of grafting Gentiles into Israel was to provoke Israel to jealousy, so they might repent. There absolutely was never an all-Gentile church formed in Acts. The church at the end was the exact same one there was at the start - the all-Israel church that started in Acts 2 at Pentecost, plus those token Gentiles grafted into Israel for the purpose of provoking Israel to jealousy, ONLY. That church ceased to exist along with the nation Israel in Ac 28:25-27.

 

[Danoh]

Sorry, Ac, but I don't go by books "about" words (dictionaries, etc.) for their definitions, I go by how they are being used, by whom, where, when, why, in light of what, and so on.

But as I have previously noted, and you have repeatedly proven - yours is books based "understanding."

In your case, largely your seemingly ever endless 28er books, lol.

While I'm at it, honestly, I could not care less if you were Acts 2, or 9, or 13, or hybrid 9 / 28, or 28, or even Acts 29.

I find people's perceptions the more fascinating study.

And I am well aware that in Romans 16: 26, both words are in the plural.

So what. You still failed to prove your erroneous view that Paul was not referring to his own writings (plural) as a Prophet or Forth-teller of God's will through Paul in Written form.

Amusing how you and your pals stick to the KJV where one or another of its' various, Church of England based misinterpretations as a translation appear to make a case here and there for one or another of your many errors, lol.

Acts 28:28?

All Paul is doing is repeating there, what he'd declared decades earlier, in Acts 13:46, 47.

Which he also repeated some time after that, in Acts 18:5, 6.

Thus, Acts 28:28's "is."

In light of the Gentile response in contrast to Israel's from Acts 9 forward, Paul's intended sense is his experience with both, all those years - how that, in contrast to Israel, the Gentiles will hear it - they have proven themselves more willing to hear of the salvation of God that Paul has been preaching - Paul is not...announcing some new gospel, or some coming gospel, there, in Acts 28 - that is your [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]-a-mamie 28er taught notion.

Lol - put away your, what was it you said you have - some 5,000 Acts 28er based books or writings, or some such - put away their notions and get...in...THEE...Book, Matthew 4:4.

Rom. 14:5; Rom. 5:6-8.

 

[ac28]

Sorry, Ac, but I don't go by books "about" words (dictionaries, etc.) for their definitions, I go by how they are being used, by whom, where, when, why, in light of what, and so on.

That's a shame. You sound like one of those people that believe Jn 16:13 is for us today, that the Holy Spirit will guide you in all truth. I sure hope you haven't dipped that low. If you have, it's no wonder you don't know much.

So you've never read Stam or O'Hair or Baker? I have, back when I only drank milk. Maybe if you would eat some meat and read some Welch or Oscar Baker, you might know something.

As contorted, twisted, and warped, as A9D is, no one could EVER discover it on their own - EVER. With A9D, there are 100s of little dishonest things, that falsely appear as truth to the unknowledgeable, that one must believe in order to get into that nonsense.

With A28D, you only have to do one purely honest, Biblical thing - obey 2Tim 2:15 and make ONE single straight cut through God's Word, in a place that is 100% Israel on one side and 100% Gentiles on the other side. The only place that's possible is at the very end of Acts. It certainly isn't Ac 9 or Rom 11, because Paul is still, as always, preaching to the Jewish leaders in Ac 28 - still the Jew First - no change at all. Then, as far as things that apply directly to you, only as a Gentile today, you eliminate the all-Israel side. That's it. Couldn't be easier. As a bonus, you will then be approved unto God, which, with your erroneous beliefs, you certainly aren't now and you will no longer have a need to feel ashamed, all according to 2Tim 2:15.

I've always believed that, if a Bible washed up on a desert island, and that the person that found it could read English and knew he was a Gentile, but had never seen or heard of a Bible or anything in or about the Bible nor any other religion, he would end up seeing what we Bible Believers see, that the only possible way that the Bible works, in order to eliminate ALL contradictions and confusion, is what is erroneously called Acts 28 dispensationalism. Acts 9 introduces more contradictions and confusion than was there to start with.

The only thing that keeps people into Acts, and thus prevents them from their calling of Heaven (many are Called but few are Chosen), is Satan's Grand Hoax, the huge lie that there are 2 second comings, the first of which, the fake rapture, will take all the resurrected saints to Heaven. Satan and Hitler use the same propaganda - the bigger the lie, the greater the numbers of believers.

Much of what I said is tongue in cheek, sort of. I still believe that you know more than anyone else reading this, even with your disease.

Your turn.

 

[ac28]

Danoh,

Romans was written in about Ac 20, 57-58AD.
Rom 16:25-26
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Ac 26:22 Acts 26:22 was written about 62AD
Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:

Since, in Ac 26:22, 62AD, Paul had never taught anything, up to that point, that was not in the OT, the Mystery in Rom 16:25-26, 58AD, MUST have been prophesied in the OT. Rom 16:25-26

This is even made stronger if the mystery in Rom 16 is the Mystery of Christ, which you have said, since Ac 26 refers to Christ in prophecy.

One other point I must add. In Rom 16:26, it says the mystery of vs 25 is NOW made manifest by the scriptures of the prophets. You say that the prophetical writings in vs 25 are those in 2Timothy. Romans was written in about 58AD. The earliest of Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles was Ephesians in about 63-64AD. Therefore, if the mystery was NOW made manifest, at the time that Romans was written, it is impossible that those prophetical writings are in any of the 7 post-Acts epistles. They would HAVE to be found in something written before Romans, most likely the OT.

I just read that the definite article, "the", in Rom, before the word, "Mystery", doesn't appear in the manuscripts. Also, all OT prophesy can be called "prophetic writings" Here's what Charles Welch, a top real scholar that runs rings around all Ac9 pseudo-scholars, says about it.

"What are the "prophetic writings" that Paul refers to? The words
translated in the A.V., "the scriptures of the prophets," are not exactly
the same as those used in Romans i. 2. In Romans i. 2 the original
reads: Dia ton propheton auton en graphais hagiais? whereas, Romans
xvi. 26 reads: Dia te graphion prophetikon. The suggestion is made by
some that not only a difference of expression is intended here, but a
real difference, and that the reference in Romans i. 2, is to O.T.
prophets, whereas that in Romans xvi. is to N.T. prophets. It may be
so, but the reader should be aware that nothing in the language used
constitutes a proof of this. Propbetikos is to propbites, what pncumatikos·
is to pneuma, simply the adjectival form. As the only other occurrence
of the word will show, every one of the O.T. prophecies
are "prophetic writings" (2 Pet. i. 21)

This secret has been hushed in aionion times. We read of some part
of God's purpose as being related to a period "before aionion times"
(Tit. i. 2; 2 Tim. i. 9), and in 1 Corinthians we read of "the wisdom of
God in a mystery," which has been "hidden", and which God "foreordained before the ages" (I Cor. ii. 7). The mystery of the prison epistles was "hidden from the ages, and from the generations" (Col. i, 26). These hidden subjects had "their own seasons" of manifestation, which manifestations were through the medium of "preaching," and ."according to" a "commandment" (Tit. i. 3). The mystery of Romans xvi. is not said to be related to a period "before age times," but silenced in age times."

 

[Danoh]

Lol - Ac, you ever so obvioisly, endlessly books based, bookworm, you.

Rom. 14:5; Rom. 5:6-8.

 

[ac28]

Lol - Ac, you ever so obvioisly, endlessly books based, bookworm, you.

Rom. 14:5; Rom. 5:6-8.

Truth is truth, no matter who you get it from. All of the authors I read back up everything they say with scripture and, if they can't back it up, they tell you so. I wouldn't read them if they didn't. And I check the scriptures to make sure they're right, especially what goes before and after, the context. There's always a KJV Bible, with at least 5000 notes scrawled in it, and a Strong's next to me when I read. The Bible is held together with scotch tape and duct tape and the big heavy Strong's is about as bad.

In many cases, I don't exactly agree with these authors. Like my idea that, in 2Tim 2:15, only one cut is intended, in a place where it's 100% Israel on one side of the cut and all Gentile (with a few saved Jews, who, since there is no Israel today, are essentially Gentiles) on the other side. The only place that works is at the very end of Acts. The purpose of right division is to eliminate everything given to Israel that was not given to the Gentiles, based on scripture. Otherwise, there are contraditions and, therefore, confusion. God is not the author of confusion and He surely doesn't seem to like it. That's why He approves of you when you rightly divide His word and get rid of all that Jewish stuff, that you'll never really get, anyway.

The 100% all-Israel rapture is your Achilles Heel. In truth, the only Gentiles in the rapture are those grafted into Israel during Acts. Probably, 99% of those raptured will be Jews. Jews NEVER were told they had an opportunity to go to Heaven and no Jew will ever go to Heaven, unless they believe in the D,B,& R of Jesus Christ. If your mislead foundling fathers hadn't selected the rapture and other ridiculous Israel things from Acts, your position would be much stronger. Of course, hanging in there with the fake rapture got you a lot more members, since nobody wants to give up the rapture. That is obviously the reason Ac9 kept the rapture. There's certainly no scriptural reason for keeping it. It certainly isn't the same as the after-Acts Appearing. That's why they're spelled differently, don't you know - the Parousia vs the Epiphaneia. Of course, there is no word in the Bible for the pre-trib second second coming coming, since it doesn't exist in the Bible. They invented a name for it anyway - the RAPTURE - Satan's Grand Joke on Christianity. All he had to do was give that little girl in Scotland a vision and the suckers all went for it. Anyway, believing in the rapture sure keeps people into Acts and the White Throne Judgment and the New Earth (assuming they pass the WTJ) - and out of Heaven.