Was the Last Supper a Seder?

[ralliann]

The Passover is to be eaten in the family dwelling.

Yeah but it is to be brought as a sacrifice to the priest.
The Lord Jesus is our priest for his seder. He is a real priest Hark. He is our priest continually for every liturgical service

 

[HARK!]

He is not just our passover, he is our offering for sin as a yom kippur.

He is our High Priest for Yom Kippur; but you have not made the case that he is the Yom Kippur sacrifice. He's not a goat. We however might be that sacrifice; but that's a discussion for another thread.

 

[HARK!]

Yeah but it is to be brought as a sacrifice to the priest.

Can you prove that with scripture?

 

[ralliann]

He is out High Priest for Yom Kippurl but you have not made the case that he is the Yom Kippur sacrifice. He's not a goat. We however might be that sacrifice; but that's a discussion for another thread.

Well this is going beyond the scope of this thread. So I am done.

 

[ralliann]

Can you prove that with scripture?

I just did. And it would go to far for this thread to go further.

 

[HARK!]

I just did. And it would go to far for this thread to go further.

You didn't specifically answer this question:

Where, in the scripture concerning the Tabernacle period, can we find instructions that the lambs for each family must be slaughtered by a priest?

You talked about bringing daily neat to be slaughtered by priests; to help ensure that daily meat didn't turn into demon sacrifice.

You talked about eating at will when in foreign lands; but you didn't specifically respond to this question.

There is no active Levitical Priesthood near me. YHWH commands that I keep the Passover forever. He tells me the ingredients; and he tells me how they are to be prepared.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

This was not a vow according to the Torah of a nazir (cf. Bamidbar (Numbers) 6). Messiah Yeshua clearly accepted the vinegar that was given to Him (cf. Yochanan (John) 19), which was forbidden to those accepting the vow of a nazir. Since Messiah was and is not a violator of Torah, He would not have taken such a vow, only to break it a few hours later.

In Matthew and Mark, He refused. This was done to fulfill Psalm 69:21. We also know He was fasting (Ta'anit B'khorim...the fast of the firstborn) so He would have refused it.

 

[chunkofcoal]

The Passover is to be eaten in the family dwelling.

The Passover is not to be sacrificed just anywhere.
Deu 16:5-6 Thou mayest not sacrifice the passover within any of thy gates, which the LORD thy God giveth thee: (6) But at the place which the LORD thy God shall choose to place his name in, there thou shalt sacrifice the passover at even, at the going down of the sun, at the season that thou camest forth out of Egypt.

 

[chunkofcoal]

The Passover is to be eaten in the family dwelling.

That is incorrect. Passover/Unleavened Bread is one of the three pilgrimage feasts when the men were to appear before God. The men wouldn't be at their "family dwelling."
Deu 16:16 Three times in a year shall all thy males appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose; in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles: and they shall not appear before the LORD empty:

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

That is incorrect. Passover/Unleavened Bread is one of the three pilgrimage feasts when the men were to appear before God. The men wouldn't be at their "family dwelling."
Deu 16:16 Three times in a year shall all thy males appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose; in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles: and they shall not appear before the LORD empty:

That means that they should not appear "empty" before Adonai...meaning without a sacrifice.

 

[AbbaLove]

You can't roast a whole lamb by fire in 70 minutes. You have failed to produce otherwise.

You've failed yet once again to understand the Words of Yahweh due to man's religious indoctrination (pharisaical leaders of the Sanhedrin). Apparently hark! doesn't know the difference between "slay" and "roast" or he's blind to the Words of Yahweh in (Exodus 12) as clearly evident in his very own CLV Bible ... if he would only open his eyes and heart.

Exodus 12:6 (CLV)
6 And it will become a charge of yours until the fourteenth day of this month. They will slay it, every assembly of the congregation of the sons of Israel, between the evening hours.​

Even a 5th grader that hasn't been indoctrinated by a man-made religious tradition knows that "between the evening hours" (twilight) isn't from noon to sunset.

We are not to leave our homes during the night. That means that the lamb must be inside before sundown.

This is further evidence of hark!'s indoctrination by a man-made tradition. What does Yahweh say about false interpretation of His Words to His Commands. Exodus 12:6 (CLV) reads "between the evening hours" (between sunset and sundown ... aka twilight).

Open your eyes, unless you're too blind to the proper interpretation of the Words of Yahweh that even a 5th grader can understand. The truth be told you really don't want to accept the Words of GOD, but rather put your trust in the pharisaical leaders of the Sanhedrin.

You're mistaken; and I find your continued false accusations to be offensive. I follow Torah.

NO, it's you that is mistaken. Your indoctrination of man's religious traditions has blinded you. It's only to be expected that someone indoctrinated with the man-made traditon of the pharisaical leaders of the Sanhedrin would get defensive to the point of being offended. What did Yahshua/Yeshua say to them ...

Matthew 23:13-15 CLV))
13 Now woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you are locking the kingdom of the heavens in front of men. For you are not entering, neither are you letting those entering to enter." 14 - 15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you are going about the sea and the dry land to make one proselyte, and whenever he may be becoming one, you are making him more than double a son of Gehenna than you are."
Matthew 15:12-14 (CJB)
12 The talmidim came to him and said, “Do you know that the P’rushim were offended by what you said?”
13 He replied, “Every plant that my Father in heaven has not planted will be pulled up by the roots.
14 Let them be. They are blind guides. When a blind man guides another blind man, both will fall in a pit.”​

You put your trust in the timeline of these pharisaical leaders of the Sanhedrin instead of the Words of Yahweh. You misinterpret Exodus 12:6-18 just as Israel's blind guides still misinterpret Isaiah 53 to this day. You are a blind guide to this thread with your misunderstanding of Yahweh's timeline as clearly evident in Exodus 12.

 

[TreWalker]

That means that they should not appear "empty" before Adonai...meaning without a sacrifice.

I believe that she is referring to the other appear in the verse.

 

[AbbaLove]

The Passover is to be eaten in the family dwelling.

What verse in Exodus 12 instructs the Israelites not to step outside for even a minute while eating portions of their roasted lamb? Certainly you aren't so indoctrinated as to believe the lamb has to be slain or roasted in the family dwelling. Just had to clarify as you misunderstand Exodus 12:6 and other verses. GOD only knows what other verses in the Torah you misunderstand.

Do you actually think we're suppose to believe your indoctrinated version when you are obviously blind to the correct interpretation of Exodus 12:6 and Exodus 12:18 just to mention these two verses. Instead you put your trust in the man-made Passover tradition of the pharisaical leaders of the Sanhedrin.

IF you could only open your eyes to the correct timeline interpretation in Exodus 12, instead of being blinded by the man-made religious tradition of the pharisaical leaders of the Sanhedrin that Yahshua/Yeshua calls them blind guides and hypocrites ...

Matthew 23:14 (CJB)
14 Let them be. They are blind guides. When a blind man guides another blind man, both will fall in a pit.”
Matthew 23:15 CLV))
15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you are going about the sea and the dry land to make one proselyte, and whenever he may be becoming one, you are making him more than double a son of Gehenna than you are."​

 

[AbbaLove]

Deu 16:16 ... and they shall not appear before the LORD empty:

Isn't that referring to bringing (or buying) a lamb or at the very least a dove for a sacrificial offering. Joseph possibly couldn't afford to buy an offering from the Temple money changers or more likely he knew better. Mary brought forth the best offering of all ... the Lamb of GOD.
.

 

[chunkofcoal]

​

Isn't that referring to bringing (or buying) a lamb or at the very least a dove for a sacrificial offering. Joseph possibly couldn't afford to buy an offering from the Temple money changers or more likely he knew better. Mary brought forth the best offering of all ... the Lamb of GOD.
.

My post was directed to Hark because he said: "The Passover is to be eaten in the family dwelling". The Passover/Unleavened Bread was a pilgrimage festival, so the men wouldn't be at their "family dwelling".

 

[GedaliahMaegil]

In Matthew and Mark, He refused. This was done to fulfill Psalm 69:21. We also know He was fasting (Ta'anit B'khorim...the fast of the firstborn) so He would have refused it.

That was the wine mixed with the bitter herb, which He refused. He is, however, testified by Yochanan as receiving vinegar before He died, clearly, as a response to His statement that He was thirsty. If you want to say this is untrue, then you hold the rest of the testimony of Messiah in question; good luck with that ...

Did you read Yochanan's account? Have you truly read Tehillah 69, specifically verse 21, in which Melekh David prophesied this very thing, or did you simply read into it something you wanted to see in it?

I certainly do not know that He participated in Ta'anit B'khorim. He certainly was not obliged to, as that was only tradition and not Torah.

 

[AbbaLove]

My post was directed to Hark because he said: "The Passover is to be eaten in the family dwelling". The Passover/Unleavened Bread was a pilgrimage festival, so the men wouldn't be at their "family dwelling".

Yes, was aware of that. Thus, my response.

By now you may have picked up that hark! thinks he is the most knowledgeable on Exodus 12, which is similar to today's successors (Rabbinic Judaism) of the pharisaical leaders of the Sanhedrin. If you want to go down that path then listen to their spin on Isaiah 53 or Exodus 12, but hopefully your not so easily deceived. Unfortunately, hark! has been unduly influenced by the man-made religious traditions of Rabbinic Judaism. Unfortunately some Messianics have more trust in man-made Jewish traditions than the Word of GOD (e.g. Exodus 12:6-18).

 

[AbbaLove]

Ex 12:14 And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.
5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD’S passover.
6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.

What sacrilegious Bible translation is ralliann using where verse six reads "on the fifteenth day of the same month" ??? That sacrilege is sufficient enough to get ralliann banned from this MJ forum.

Verse 6 in all reputable translations reads as follows ...

Exodus 12:6 (CLV)
6 And it will become a charge of yours until the fourteenth day of this month. They will slay it, every assembly of the congregation of the sons of Israel, between the evening hours. (between sunset to sundown at the beginning of Nisan 14 NOT Nisan 15).
Exodus 12:6 (KJV)
6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening (between sunset and sundown at the beginning of Nisan 14 NOT Nisan 15)
Exodus 12:6 (CJB)
6 “‘You are to keep it until the fourteenth day of the month, and then the entire assembly of the community of Isra’el will slaughter it at dusk. (between sunset and sundown at the beginning of Nisan 14 NOT Nisan 15)
Exodus 12:6 (ESV)
6 and you shall keep it until the fourteenth day of this month, when the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill their lambs at twilight.[a] (between sunset and sundown at the beginning of Nisan 14 NOT Nisan 15))
a. Exodus 12:6 Hebrew between the two evenings (between sunset and sundown)​

 

[chunkofcoal]

​

Yes, was aware of that. Thus, my response.

By now you may have picked up that hark! thinks he is the most knowledgeable on Exodus 12, which is similar to today's successors (Rabbinic Judaism) of the pharisaical leaders of the Sanhedrin. If you want to go down that path then listen to their spin on Exodus 53 or Exodus 12, but hopefully your not so easily deceived. Unfortunately, hark! has been unduly influenced by the man-made religious traditions of Rabbinic Judaism. Unfortunately some Messianics have more trust in man-made Jewish traditions than the Word of GOD (e.g. Exodus 12:6-18).

I responded to your post because you were the second person that brought up that part of the scripture I posted and it was not the point I was trying to make.

As for Hark!, I know no such thing about Hark!

(I edited my post since you edited yours)

Do you classify all of Rabbinic Judaism as "man-made religious traditions" and "man-made Jewish traditions"? Because there are Messianics who respect Rabbinic Judaism and find a lot of meaning in their teachings. Even in the SOP of this forum it states:
Literature: While we believe that the Bible is the Word of G-d, we also believe that it can be educational and informative to study other Jewish Literature such as the Mishnah Torah, Talmud etc. We believe, as Yeshua taught, that this does not overrule the Torah, nor is on equal basis with Torah, but it can be used to clarify ambiguous passages in the Bible.

 

[pinacled]

​

What sacrilegious Bible translation is ralliann using where verse six reads "on the fifteenth day of the same month" ??? That sacrilege is sufficient enough to get ralliann banned from this MJ forum.

Verse 6 in all reputable translations reads as follows ...

Exodus 12:6 (CLV)
6 And it will become a charge of yours until the fourteenth day of this month. They will slay it, every assembly of the congregation of the sons of Israel, between the evening hours. (between sunset to sundown at the beginning of Nisan 14 NOT Nisan 15).
Exodus 12:6 (KJV)
6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening (between sunset and sundown at the beginning of Nisan 14 NOT Nisan 15)
Exodus 12:6 (CJB)
6 “‘You are to keep it until the fourteenth day of the month, and then the entire assembly of the community of Isra’el will slaughter it at dusk. (between sunset and sundown at the beginning of Nisan 14 NOT Nisan 15)
Exodus 12:6 (ESV)
6 and you shall keep it until the fourteenth day of this month, when the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill their lambs at twilight.[a] (between sunset and sundown at the beginning of Nisan 14 NOT Nisan 15))
a. Exodus 12:6 Hebrew between the two evenings (between sunset and sundown)​

Leviticus 23:5-6
It looks as though they imposed leviticus onto exodus.

The intent is vague but I agree it is very irresponsible to post in such a manner.
And worth reporting.

Blessings Always