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Featured WAS THE FIRST LIE IN THE GARDEN OF EDEN YOU CAN BREAK GOD'S LAW AND NOT SURELY DIE?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by LoveGodsWord, Sep 13, 2018.

  1. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hello All, :)

    The question for discussion today is...

    WAS THE FIRST LIE IN THE GARDEN OF EDEN; YOU CAN BREAK ANY OF GOD'S COMMANDEMENTS AND NOT DIE WHEN GOD'S TOLD ADAM AND EVE NOT TO EAT THE FORBIDDEN FRUIT LEST YOU DIE?

    Let's start at John and at the beginning of Genesis 3

    Let's start here with the father of lies......

    JOHN 8:44
    [44], Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: FOR HE IS A LIAR AND THE FATHER OF IT.

    The Devil is the Father of LIES those that do not FOLLOW God follow their Father the devil and the deeds of their father they will do.

    links to...........

    1 JOHN 2:3-4
    [3], And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
    [4], He that saith, I KNOW HIM, and KEEPS NOT HIS COMMANDMENTS, is a LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM

    links to...........

    1 JOHN 4:8
    [4], Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
    [5], And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
    [6], Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
    [7], Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
    [8], He that committeth sin is of the devil; (the father of lies and the deeds of their father they will do)

    NOTE: The father of lies is from the begining. Let's go to the beginning of GENESIS and see what John is talking about?

    GENESIS 3:1-11
    [1], Now the SEPENT <Satan Rev 12:9> was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the WOMEN <Church good or bad; Jeremiah 6:2; 2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:23-27; Isaiah 1:21-27; Jeremiah 3:1-3; 6-9; Ezk 16:15-58; 23:2-21; Hos. 2:5; 3:1; Rev. 14:4>, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

    [2], And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the FRUIT of the trees of the garden: <FRUIT of OBEDIENCE (James 2:18; 20; 26; Matthew 7:12-23; Jon 15:1-10)

    [3], But of the FRUIT of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, LEST YOU DIE <God's LAW; represents God's 10 commandments which gives the KNOWLEDGE of SIN and RIGHTEUSNESS; Good and Evil; Romans 3:20; 7:7; James 2:11; 1 John 3:4; Ps 119:172; but makes nothing perfect>.

    [4], And the serpent said unto the woman, YOU SHALL NOT SURELY DIE:< The first LIE from the beginning; John 8:44)

    [5], For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, KNOWING GOOD AND EVIL. < Prior to DIOBEYING God Mankind DID NOT KNOW what EVIL (SIN) was because they were in HARMONY and OBEDIENT to God's WORD>

    [6], And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

    [7], And THE EYES OF THEM WERE OPENED, AND THEY KNEW THAT THEY WERE NAKED; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons. <God's LAW is the KNOWLEDGE of SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS; When they SINNED they now had the KNOWLEDGE of both GOOD and EVIL; Romans 3:20; 7:7; James 2:11; 1 John 3:4; Ps 119:172; The saw that they were naked and tried to cover themselves with figleaves; SIN took away their RIGHTEOUSNESS and now they are guilty before God in SIN; NAKED before God in SIN trying to cover themselves with figleaves (flithy rags) Isaiah 63:6; Righteousness to cover our nakedness only from God; Luke 15:22; If we SIN we lose it; Romans 3:19 >

    [8], And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

    [9], And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
    [10], And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
    [11], And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

    Key points and putting it all together..........

    The Serpent and father of LIES is the Devil he lied to MANKIND from the beginning. God's Commandment to Adam and Eve was NOT to eat of the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL (SIN AND RIGHTESOUNESS) lest you DIE.

    Adam and Eve did not have the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL (SIN AND RIGHTESOUNESS) because they had NEVER SINNED and where in HARMONY with God in OBEDIENCE to HIS WORD.

    THE TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL REPRESENTS GOD's Commandments. The TAKING THE FRUIT symbolizes BREAKING the TREE and DISOBEYING God's Commandment.

    God says do not eat of the fruit, lest you DIE. By eating the fruit Adam and Eve chose NOT TO BELIEVE GOD and to BELIEVE the serpent. (UNBELIEF in GOD's WORD)

    .................

    THIS IS A WARNING FOR US TODAY. THE same LIE told to ADAM and EVE is being repeated in the mainstream Churches of today.

    SIN is the transgression of GOD'S LAW and if anyone CONTINUES in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN; God's WORD says they will DIE and not ENTER THE KINGDOM of HEAVEN because they have rejected the GIFT of God's dear son (Romans 6:23; Hebrews 10:26-27; 6:4-8; Matthew 7:12-23)

    It is only by partaking of the TREE of LIFE (BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING God's Word by LOVE) through FAITH that Gods FRUITS of OBEDIENCE are seen in the life of God's true people (1 John 3:3-10; Revelation 12:17; 14:12; 22:14) and is why Jesus says if you LOVE me keep my commandments ( John 14:15; 15:10)

    If you break God's Commandments just like in the days of Adam and EVE you commit SIN (Romans 7:7; James 2:9-11; 1 John 3:4)

    Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will surely die and will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

    ...............

    God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

    Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

    There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

    Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

    In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

    May God bless you as you seen him through his Word?

    What are your thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
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  2. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    The first lie in the Garden was.

    "Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?"
     
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  3. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Genesis chapter 3 has to do with the Serpent and the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Now we have many choices to make. Life or death, blessing or curse, sickness or health, poverty or prosperity and so many more choices. Victory or defeat, overcome or be an overcomer, bondage or liberty and so on. Before the Serpent deceived Eve the only choice was if they should or should not eat of the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil.
     
  4. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Already been in deep discussion on this very subject on another thread here. Most of what you have said was the same points. Good topic though!
     
  5. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    What is it that makes my post Optimistic?

    These were the first words Satan spoke, and they were a lie, in order to gender a response whereby He could deceive with more lies.

    The Lie is designed to cause us to question, that is the door to Sin.

    But it being Optimistic, No, not at all, it's the truth.
     
  6. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It was also Satan's opportunity to become "god" over what God created....even then Satan was still trying to prove his power and authority over God's.
     
  7. drjean

    drjean Senior Veteran Supporter

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    My assumption is that Lucifer told the first lie when he promoted himself to be able to be as God, the Almighty.

    The first lie on record to humans is recorded in the story of the garden of eden.
     
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  8. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hi JIMNZ, nice to see you.

    I am a little busy right now but will have some more time to reply soon. Was what you posted earlier a question or a lie?
     
  9. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    Thank you it's nice to be seen.

    Well to tell you the TRUTH, it's what the Bible says, therfore you will have to argue your theory with God Himself, because HE was there at the time Satan Lied.
     
  10. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hi JIMNZ thanks for your post.

    Please forgive me brother as I am not sure if I understand your posts as it seems a little confusing.

    The OP is about the first lie as referred to in 1 JOHN and GENESIS 3. This is in relation to Satan decieving EVE in the Garden of Eden that if you break God's commandment you will not die * GENESIS 3:4.

    You claimed in your post # 2 linked, that the first lie was from v1...
    Brother this is not a lie it is a statement of what God said to Eve. It is a question to open the topic that leads to the lie spoken in v4. Can you see the difference?

    The lie was not told to Eve until v4 at which time it is written; [4], And the serpent said unto the woman, YOU SHALL NOT SURELY DIE:< The first LIE from the beginning; John 8:44).

    This was in reference to God's Commandment that if you touch and eat of the fruit of the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL you will surely die. There is no theory or argument my side it is the Word of God.

    This has application for us today don't you think?
     
  11. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    It is an interesting Chapter in GENESIS 3. The tree is symbolic of the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL. Eating of the fruit represented breaking God's COMMANDMENTS, given in GENESIS 2:16-17 by God when his said they were not to touch it lest they die. Satan tempted EVE by saying you will NOT surely die v4 but in the day you eat thereof you will be as God KNOWING GOOD and EVIL v5. When they disobeyed God and did eat the fruit God's said; Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil v22.

    NOW the QUESTION is this. WHAT do you think the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL represents for us today?
     
  12. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    For me this has to do with the evolution of consciousness. Both the collective unconscious as well as the ability to choose right from wrong, good from evil. The frontal cortex is the area of the brain that controls reasoning, problem solving and decision making. At the time of the Garden of Eden man went from a food gather to a food producer. This was the beginning of civilization. Science has a lot to say about what happened with Adam and Eve.

    The problem is this covers psychology, philosophy, anthropology, religion, sociology and so on. Everything can be understood by a child at a fifth grade level but so far no one has been able to simply this so that it can be taught to the average person. Einstein would say: "you do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother."

    The main issue is IF you have cancer in your brain and they want to remove the tumor then it is essential to tell you what part of your brain is going to be effected by the surgery and what your risk assessment is. So doctors have to deal with this sort of assessment on a regular daily basis. Also of course this is an issue with the evaluation of stroke patients.
     
  13. Gr8Grace

    Gr8Grace Well-Known Member

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    My thought's would be........when did God tell Adam AFTER he was redeemed,Justified and saved," You surely can still die spiritually?"

    You do realize, as Christians, we are to keep everyday as holy. You only do Saturday? One day?

    The word calls you a LOSER believer. But not a lost believer. Believers NEVER perish. John 10:28.
     
  14. Gr8Grace

    Gr8Grace Well-Known Member

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    The same as it meant in the garden. Good was divine good, Gods plan. Evil was human good, 'good' that was independent from God and mans plan took over.

    We can rightly say that the knowledge of good and evil is......the knowledge of Good(His plan) and the knowledge of evil( mans plan of 'good' or religion.)

    Eating a fruit is not an outward wicked act of violence. But an evil( I can do this on my own/human good) act.
     
  15. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for your thoughts joshua, have you ever cosidered the role of God's 10 Commandments as God giving us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and Evil?
     
  16. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hi Heart2Soul, great to meet you here and thanks for your comments. Must be the topic of the week :).

    It is an interesting subject I think as it show the origin of the first lie that is still being taught today in many churches. Have you considered what the knowledge of GOOD and EVIL represents today?
     
  17. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hello Gr8Grace, nice to meet you here brother. Salvation and God's law are not for the righteous * 1 TIMOTHY 1:9. This is what Jesus was trying to teach the Pharisees in MATTHEW 9.

    MATTHEW 9:10-13
    [10], And it came to pass, as Jesus sat to eat in the house, behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples.
    [11], And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why does your Teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?
    [12], But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.
    [13], But go and learn what that means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

    The Pharisees did not know the meaning of these scriptures as do many do not know their meaning today.

    What do you think the meaning of these scriptures are Gr8Grace?

    Jesus says those who commit sin are a servant to sin. If the son of man shall make you free you shall be free indeed (John 8:31-34).

    God's LAW is only for those who are breaking it because they reject the gift of God's dear son, then it is written for those whoknowingly continue to do so, the wages of sin is death *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-27.

    Many will be dissappointed come judgment day, because they had a form of godliness but were denying the power thereof *MATTHEW 7:13-23; 2 TIMOTHY 3:1-5. The Scribes and the Pharisees had a form of godliness but did not know they needed a new heart.

    With that in mind, what do you think is the role of God's LAW and how does it relate to the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL as expressed in GENESIS 3?

    Thanks for sharing Gr8Grace :wave:
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
  18. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Well-Known Member Supporter

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    God's Mercy and Grace, His role as a Just and Sovereign God, Free Will to choose, Freedom of the bondage of sin and death through Christ.

    Just to name a few. And something that I realized more clearly is that Adam and Eve were created not born.....we have been born first of Adam and then reborn of Christ.
    Adam and Eve were given instructions/commandments by God and they never questioned nor had any intent to disobey these.....they were in the Garden of Eden daily where they gathered fruits and other foods there......then the serpent approached Eve with the purpose of destroying what God created to be in perfect harmony with Him......he lied to Eve and said you will not die if you eat.....then when she ate her eyes were opened and she realized her sin and was ashamed....then Adam ate....

    Now Adam and Eve have been found with iniquity and God placed a curse on them and drove them out of the Garden......their children who are BORN are now born with the sin nature already in them....until Jesus came and we are reborn.
     
  19. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    How do you define what Good and Evil is if God has given us a knowledge of it?
     
  20. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    We are to love God, love our neighbor and love our-self. The 10 commandments shows us how to express that Love. "the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ" Gal 3:24
     
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