Was Peter a member of the Body of Christ.

[msortwell]

This is a bit off-topic but I believe that Jews, being the chosen of God get a pass. Mostly because Christ lived, died, and was resurrected a Jew. He taught from the Jewish religious books quoting many of the OT prophets.

Hebrews 10:28-29 / AV
28 ‭‭He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:‭ 29 ‭‭Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?‭

I believe that you are very mistaken.

 

[rturner76]

Hebrews 10:28-29 / AV
28 ‭‭He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:‭ 29 ‭‭Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?‭

I believe that you are very mistaken.

I know it became a thing to hate Jews for executing Jesus. Still, where did Christ learn about God? At the Temple. He challenged the "high ups" at the time because they were more concerned with ritual and sacrifice to show other people their Godliness. Christ came to remind us that it is our relationship with God that is important. The law when it was given to Moses was the backbone of the whole Jewish society and the laws became secular in nature.

Matthew 5:17
“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

I don't know but Christ pretty much believed in the OT and its prophets according to this verse above..

 

[msortwell]

I know it became a thing to hate Jews for executing Jesus. Still, where did Christ learn about God? At the Temple. He challenged the "high ups" at the time because they were more concerned with ritual and sacrifice to show other people their Godliness. Christ came to remind us that it is our relationship with God that is important. The law when it was given to Moses was the backbone of the whole Jewish society and the laws became secular in nature.

Matthew 5:17
“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

I don't know but Christ pretty much believed in the OT and its prophets according to this verse above..

Pretty much believed? He was born a Jew under the Mosaic Law covenant. And He was perfectly obedient to all aspects of the law, doing always those things that pleased His father.

It is His perfect righteousness that makes him that rightious son of David that will sit eternally upon the throne of David. And it is His perfect righteousness that is imputed to those who trust in Him for salvation - trust in His death for their sins.

And lest we overlook the very plain teaching . . .

Galatians 3:26-28 / AV
26 ‭‭For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.‭ 27 ‭‭For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.‭ 28 ‭‭There is ‭neither‭ ‭Jew‭ nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.‭

 

[rturner76]

Pretty much believed? He was born a Jew under the Mosaic Law covenant. And He was perfectly obedient to all aspects of the law, doing always those things that pleased His father.

It is His perfect righteousness that makes him that rightious son of David that will sit eternally upon the throne of David. And it is His perfect righteousness that is imputed to those who trust in Him for salvation - trust in His death for their sins.

I 100% agree.

So then my question is, if Christ was the perfect fulfillment of the Mosaic Law, how can Jews not be included? He did it, he made the necessary sacrifice for his and all people. If the morality of Christianity is based on a deity who had perfect adherence to Judaism. How can we say Jews are not included in the covenant?

I can tell you why many, even most people of THe Church would believe they are not included because they don't believe in any Sacraments. They do have baptism which has a similar meaning to them of being clean upon acceptance of the life. Where I go we have multiple Sacraments. Those are something not shared in Judaism.

I also am completely aware of the human desire to be in an exclusive group of people. It makes us feel important. That is why our religion is split into so many pieces. It seems many of us are living as Christians and have completely different ideas about things.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Was Peter included in the Gospel of Grace.

Was Peter a member of the Body of Christ.

I believe, from scripture that Peter was born again and had Christ in him by faith and he was a part of the body of Christ (though somewhat hidden with Christ in mystery also.
We read of his new birth here

Matthew 16:15. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?16. And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.17. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.18. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”

mans compare that confession Peter made With this,

1 John 4:15. Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.”

1 John 5:1. Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.”

also we read that even before Peter met Jesus he belonged to the father and was saved

John 17:6. I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.10. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.12. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.”

 

[msortwell]

I 100% agree.

So then my question is, if Christ was the perfect fulfillment of the Mosaic Law, how can Jews not be included? He did it, he made the necessary sacrifice for his and all people. If the morality of Christianity is based on a deity who had perfect adherence to Judaism. How can we say Jews are not included in the covenant?

John 3:16-18 / AV
16 ‭‭[Jesus (a Jew) said, to Nicodemus (also a Jew),] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son [Jesus], that whosoever believeth [whether Jew, Gentile, or . . .] in him [Jesus] should not perish, but have everlasting life.‭ 17 ‭‭For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.‭ 18 ‭‭He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not [like each member of the Jewish religion today] is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.‭

 

[Gottservant]

The return of the apostle Peter, will be the first to be beheaded by the anti-Christ.

The revival of the apostle Peter, will be the last to be beheaded by the anti-Christ.

All will be swept up, in Him.

 

[rturner76]

John 3:16-18 / AV
16 ‭‭[Jesus (a Jew) said, to Nicodemus (also a Jew),] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son [Jesus], that whosoever believeth [whether Jew, Gentile, or . . .] in him [Jesus] should not perish, but have everlasting life.‭ 17 ‭‭For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.‭ 18 ‭‭He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not [like each member of the Jewish religion today] is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.‭

Jews today are the same Jews from the days of Moses. Moses made a covenant with God that the Jewish people or really The Israelites followed that covenant since a couple of thousand years before Christ.

Christ came as the Messiah that the Israelites prophesied about and Gentiles were included in the new covenant. That doesn't mean Jews are now excluded from the old covenant. They still live by it, practice mosaic law and have sacrifices, feast days, and days of atonement for the forgiveness of their sins.

They are the keepers of the original writings and laws. We are grafted into their salvation by Christ because Gentiles do not practice the days of atonement etc. that Jews do. We have our own covenant with Christ so we don't need to practice those.

There was always a movement in the ancient Catholic Church that vilified Jews for "killing Christ" not converting etc. There was always a movement in the Church that saw the Jews as the chosen people who brought us our religion. The anti-Jew movement was always stronger. Only we can have the answer like the verse seems to imply. Only those who have accepted Christ can be saved took root many places.

The way it is written in the Bible something has to be considered. Christ/God is known as "The Word" "The Word was with God and The Word was God." Jesus Christ is The Word of God. The Israelites were given by Moses The Word, in writing. Judaism HAS The Word (In that following The Word Moses brought down was following The Word or God), Christ (the Jew) IS The Word. The Word (God) made flesh. Christ knew and represented the entirety of The Word God written and diety. If we accept Christ, we accept God's Word, not the Hebrew written word but The Word made flesh.

That is why the Logos, The Word is so important in Christianity. THe WOrd spoke of Christ, Christ came and gave us THe Word.

..................

 

[rturner76]

The return of the apostle Peter, will be the first to be beheaded by the anti-Christ.

The revival of the apostle Peter, will be the last to be beheaded by the anti-Christ.

All will be swept up, in Him.

I don't get it

Isn't revive and return kind of the same thing?

 

[msortwell]

Jews today are the same Jews from the days of Moses. Moses made a covenant with God that the Jewish people or really The Israelites followed that covenant since a couple of thousand years before Christ.

God sovereignly made that covenant , not Moses. It promised temporal blessings for obedience. The were not obedient.

Christ came as the Messiah that the Israelites prophesied about and Gentiles were included in the new covenant. That doesn't mean Jews are now excluded from the old covenant. They still live by it, practice mosaic law and have sacrifices, feast days, and days of atonement for the forgiveness of their sins.

They do not perform sacrifices. They rejected the prophet that Moses said would come.

They awre the keepers of the original writings and laws. We are grafted into their salvation by Christ because Gentiles do not practice the days of atonement etc. that Jews do. We have our own covenant with Christ so we don't need to practice those.

The Covenant that Messiah fulfilled won the salvation in all that trust or trusted in the promised savior whether that promise was limited to the glimpse provided in Gen 3:15 or later more fully revealed in John 3:16 etc.

There was always a movement in the ancient Catholic Church that vilified Jews for "killing Christ" not converting etc. There was always a movement in the Church that saw the Jews as the chosen people who brought us our religion. The anti-Jew movement was always stronger. Only we can have the answer like the verse seems to imply. Only those who have accepted Christ can be saved took root many places.

The verse does not “seem to imply” it, along with the balance of the scriptures, plainly declare it.

The way it is written in the Bible something has to be considered. Christ/God is known as "The Word" "The Word was with God and The Word was God." Jesus Christ is The Word of God. The Israelites were given by Moses The Word, in writing. Judaism HAS The Word (In that following The Word Moses brought down was following The Word or God), Christ (the Jew) IS The Word. The Word (God) made flesh. Christ knew and represented the entirety of The Word God written and diety. If we accept Christ, we accept God's Word, not the Hebrew written word but The Word made flesh.

There is nothing in the Written Word (Hebrew or otherwise) but that which ultimately points to Jesus the Messiah.

That is why the Logos, The Word is so important in Christianity. THe WOrd spoke of Christ, Christ came and gave us THe Word.

No person in ANY dispensation was, or will ever be, saved by anything other than the grace of God in agreeing within the Trinity to the sacrifice of the Son of God on the cross - for the sin of His people - made effectual but faith in the promised savior.

 

[rturner76]

No person in ANY dispensation was, or will ever be, saved by anything other than the grace of God in agreeing within the Trinity to the sacrifice of the Son of God on the cross - for the sin of His people - made effectual but faith in the promised savior.

Many people feel this way and it is human nature to want to believe that we are the only saved ones and that nobody else has access to God. It's the same as thinking we are one of the "cool kids" in high school who get it when nobody else does.

In my religion, the Catechism says both Jews and Muslims can be saved if they live right and have faith. We all worship the one God, the God of Abraham the original monotheist. From a historical perspective, we are all sort of like newer denominations of Judaism. Christians were the Jewish reformers like the Protestants were Christian reformers. Not quite that simple but the first Christians were Jews, then Paul went to the Gentiles and over time, the Gentiles distance themselves from Israel.

So it looks like we have some differing theology. Many Christians disagree about theological issues the evidence of that is the millions of different denominations, house churches, and TV/radio congregations. People can believe whatever they want and when they run into a dispute with their church's leadership, they can just start their own church and teach what they believe. That's kind of what happened during the reformation. With English, German, and French Bibles, anybody who could read was able to start their own church and add to or take away from the Apostolic teachings of the first Churches.

I found a lot of answers in the Catholic Catechism that said God is not as exclusive as I thought and Christ's sacrifice was did what it was supposed to do, fix mankind's relationship with God.

 

[msortwell]

Rturner76 - If you are
saying that they can be in right standing with God while retaining their Jewish and Muslim religious beliefs, then you should probably consider that “Theology“ is a Christian-Only section of CF, and you should find a different section to share your views.

 

[rturner76]

Rturner76 - If you are
saying that they can be in right standing with God while retaining their Jewish and Muslim religious beliefs, then you should probably consider that “Theology“ is a Christian-Only section of CF, and you should find a different section to share your views.

I'm sorry but there are many many differing theologies within Christianity.

I searched the Catechism for 2 minutes and found this:

Who belongs to the Catholic Church?

836 "All men are called to this catholic unity of the People of God. . . . And to it, in different ways, belong or are ordered: the Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and finally all mankind, called by God's grace to salvation."320

This seems to indicate that any member of the human race can be called by God's grace. So if somebody is not Christian, they may still find grace by living Christian values. Golden rule, 10 commandments, turn the other cheek. For example Ghandi did all of these things. How can we honestly say Gandhi was not a righteous man? He grew up in a Hindu country. I believe God would not abandon him because he grew up in a Hindu country.

I am not saying I believe in universal salvation or I'm a Universalist. I believe in Christ's sacrifice being perfectly effective. I believe that it actually accomplished salvation for mankind if you take up your cross and seek to please God he will not forget you on the last day..

To me, simply calling yourself a Christian is not anything like a prepaid ticket to the afterlife in heaven. I think many Christians won't make it and many non Christians will. There are Christian serial killers who feel secure in their salvation. I don't think it works that way.

839 "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."325

The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 "the first to hear the Word of God."327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God's revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews "belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ",328 "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."329

~So there it is saying that Jews have inherited their salvation through the old covenant they have always followed.~Plus, Christ's upbringing was a Jewish one. How can we say Jews won't be saved when Christ himself is a Jew.

I do understand the mentality of thinking that our opinion is correct and our personal theology is what saves us. I will move on from this topic if people are finding my posts here offensive. I intended an interesting exchange of ideas. I'm not trying to win converts to my philosophy just expressing why I feel the way I do.

 

[msortwell]

I'm sorry but there are many many differing theologies within Christianity.

And there are some that call themselves Christian, but embraces (and espouse) a theology that is so far from the teachings of Scripture so as to show themselves to be other than Christian.

I searched the Catechism for 2 minutes and found this:

Who belongs to the Catholic Church?

836 "All men are called to this catholic unity of the People of God. . . . And to it, in different ways, belong or are ordered: the Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and finally all mankind, called by God's grace to salvation."320

This seems to indicate that any member of the human race can be called by God's grace. So if somebody is not Christian, they may still find grace by living Christian values. Golden rule, 10 commandments, turn the other cheek. For example Ghandi did all of these things. How can we honestly say Gandhi was not a righteous man? He grew up in a Hindu country. I believe God would not abandon him because he grew up in a Hindu country.

But the bible teaches that the necessary outcome of the gracious call of God is faith in Christ. To leave this life without such faith - according to the clear teaching of Scripture provided above - means leaving this life cursed by God. There is nothing in Scripture that hints at a future hope after death. Catechisms are a very valuable tool when used in light of Scripture - dangerous as a reference considered to be authoritative to the level of Scripture.

I am not saying I believe in universal salvation or I'm a Universalist. I believe in Christ's sacrifice being perfectly effective. I believe that it actually accomplished salvation for mankind if you take up your cross and seek to please God he will not forget you on the last day..

"If you take up your cross . . ." - It is not what I do, it is all about what Christ did for me. He died for me, and many many others. He gives us faith. We bring nothing of merit to the situation.

To me, simply calling yourself a Christian is not anything like a prepaid ticket to the afterlife in heaven. I think many Christians won't make it and many non Christians will. There are Christian serial killers who feel secure in their salvation. I don't think it works that way.

There are no true Christians (admittedly some have been lied to and believing that lie believe themselves to be Christian and are not) that will be cast into the lake of fire. And there are none that reject Christ, there are none that have no faith in Christ, that will end up anywhere but the hell promised in Scripture. You claim to be a Christian, and that may be true, but you are very wrong about what hope/assurance the true non-Christian has. If you have true faith in Christ you will end up in glory. But the non-Christian reading your beliefs and finding comfort in them will most certainly be cast into that dreaded lake of fire.

David and Paul understood that the were wicked sinners, each having murdered or participated in the murder of a man. By God's grace they repented and by God's grace they were forgiven.

839

"Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."325

The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 "the first to hear the Word of God."327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God's revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews "belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ",328 "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."329

And the gifts and the call of God were to Abraham and his seed which is Christ and indirectly to all who are in Him by faith. All the gifts and call of God are fulfilled in Christ.

~So there it is saying that Jews have inherited their salvation through the old covenant they have always followed.~Plus, Christ's upbringing was a Jewish one. How can we say Jews won't be saved when Christ himself is a Jew.

Because, as declared in Scripture they broke that covenant, bringing only a curse upon themselves. Yet a new covenant is established requiring only that they have faith in Christ.

Hebrews 8:7-13
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. KJV

Reading in Hebrews you will find that Jesus is the priest in that covenant.

I do understand the mentality of thinking that our opinion is correct and our personal theology is what saves us. I will move on from this topic if people are finding my posts here offensive. I intended an interesting exchange of ideas. I'm not trying to win converts to my philosophy just expressing why I feel the way I do.

Theology does not save. God saves. And He only saves as He describes clearly in Scripture. Your posts are only offensive in that they assure the lost that they need only to pursue piety consistent with their own standards and convictions and need not look to the grace offered in Christ for their hope. It is not clear in Scripture how tears will come to those in glory - if it be that God wiping away our tears is a literal statement. However, if it IS literal, and your faith in Christ is genuine, (despite any failings in your extended theology) the tears you shed in glory may well be over the many Muslims, Jews, and others that may have read and headed your words of comfort and at that present time, even as you enter into eternal comfort and joy, are burning in the eternal fires of hell, certainly because of their own sin, but perhaps by sin that included the rejection of a gospel offer while comforted by the assurance that you provided that Christ is really not needed.

 

[rturner76]

But the bible teaches that the necessary outcome of the gracious call of God is faith in Christ.

Let's see what Jesus says:

Matthew 22:36-40 New International Version (NIV)
36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself. 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Does Christ say "this is somewhat important?" No, he said All The Law and Prophets which at the time "The Law and Prophets" was basically a euphemism for the OT teachings.

WHen Christ Came, the leadership of Israel and prominant citizens were more concerned about being seen praying, going to temple, donating money, all for the admiration of the people. Christ was slapping down their legalism with the message "God is Love." "Sermon on the Mount." and open air preaching to obey God and live right. In the 2 great commandments, Christ is saying Love God, Love your neighbor and you will please God. Then he dies to temptation and the flesh and made it much easier to be counted as one of God's children..

There is nothing in Scripture that hints at a future hope after death. Catechisms are a very valuable tool when used in light of Scripture - dangerous as a reference considered to be authoritative to the level of Scripture.

I acknowledge that the message of mainstream Christianity is in a nutshell Whoever don't believe in Christ can go to hell literally. Cut and dried, yes or no, right or wrong. Get right with Christ or go down. Obviously to be Christian you must believe Jesus is the Christ and one part of the trinity unless you are Messianic or non-trinitarian but this site doesn't consider them Christian from my understanding.

While studying, I started reading philosophy written by Church doctors and Saints. The whole Sola Scriptura Sola Fide thing is relatively new. The Church has had writings that were approved by the Apostolic Church since the Biblical Cannon was approved. For example Augustine was writing in the year 400, not even 50 years after the books of the NT were Canonized.

Bishops and Church DOctors have been debating and disagreeing about these things since before the Latin Vulgate wa published.

EDIT: A while back, I started a thread about the atonement theory or theology what have you. I have been mistakenly posting on that topic here. I have strayed away from the topic of St Peter and his contribution to The Church.

End of the day, I stick with Peter was sent to the Jew and Paul was sent to the Gentile. Both of them had the fullness of truth.

 

[Danigt22]

Peter will Judge as one of the 12 Apostles when Jesus Sits on the throne

Is Paul a resplacement for Juda Iscariote, I always had that doubt about the theory of the 12 leaders of Judah.

 

[friend of]

Peter was corrected by Paul on the matter of the gospel of salvation.

 

[Marilyn C]

Was Peter included in the Gospel of Grace.

Was Peter a member of the Body of Christ.

Peter and the other 11 disciples/apostles are in Christ but NOT in the Body of Christ. They are a specific group with a specific calling. Jesus told them -

`Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed me will also SIT ON 12 THRONES, JUDGING THE 12 TRIBES OF ISRAEL.` (Matt. 19: 28)

This is fulfilled in the city part of the New Jerusalem.

`Now the wall of the city had 12 foundations, and on them were the names OF THE 12 APOSTLES OF THE LAMB.` (Rev. 21: 14)

Note that the Body of Christ has a higher calling to the third heaven, above the city.

`To him who overcomes, I will grant to sit with me on my throne, as I also overcame and sat down with my Father on His throne.` (Rev. 3: 21)

`

 

[msortwell]

Peter was corrected by Paul on the matter of the gospel of salvation.

In a sense, yes. But it was more precisely a matter of Peter responding out of fear of Circumcision proponents and therefore withdrawing from fellowship with the uncircumcised gentiles, an act that could readily have been misconstrued to mean that he sided with the Judaizers