Was Moses accepting Jethro's advice good or not?

[visionary]

Was it a good idea to accept Jethro's advise?

Ex 18:14 And when Moses' father in law saw all that he did to the people, he said, What is this thing that thou doest to the people? why sittest thou thyself alone, and all the people stand by thee from morning unto even? 15 And Moses said unto his father in law, Because the people come unto me to enquire of God: 16 When they have a matter, they come unto me; and I judge between one and another, and I do make them know the statutes of God, and his laws.

17 And Moses' father in law said unto him, The thing that thou doest is not good. 18 Thou wilt surely wear away, both thou, and this people that is with thee: for this thing is too heavy for thee; thou art not able to perform it thyself alone. 19 Hearken now unto my voice, I will give thee counsel, and God shall be with thee: Be thou for the people to God-ward, that thou mayest bring the causes unto God: 20 And thou shalt teach them ordinances and laws, and shalt shew them the way wherein they must walk, and the work that they must do. 21 Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place such over them, to be rulers of thousands, and rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens: 22 And let them judge the people at all seasons: and it shall be, that every great matter they shall bring unto thee, but every small matter they shall judge: so shall it be easier for thyself, and they shall bear the burden with thee. 23 If thou shalt do this thing, and God command thee so, then thou shalt be able to endure, and all this people shall also go to their place in peace.

24 So Moses hearkened to the voice of his father in law, and did all that he had said.

 

[Hank77]

23 If thou shalt do this thing, and God command thee so, then thou shalt be able to endure, and all this people shall also go to their place in peace.

I believe it was good that Moses did this. Jethro seems to be saying in this verse, if God commands it /agrees with it...
Moses took his advise but there is no reason to believe that Moses, considering his relationship with God, did not know in his spirit that Jethro was right.

 

[gadar perets]

Having to deal with the problems of over 2 million people by himself would have quickly taken its toll on Moses' health. I believe Jethro gave him good advice and Moses knew it to be such.

 

[Lulav]

I don't see it as going against anything that HaShem told him, he was just showing him how to do his duty and how to delegate. It was too big a job for one man top handle so I see it was good advice. Also Moses also met G-d when he was staying with Jethro so it wasn't as if Jethro was a heathen or someone like Balaam misleading him away from Torah.

 

[visionary]

I have no disagreement with the advice, for it seems to be of sound reasoning. It is the need to take a second look at it that I am doing. It is not decreed from God. It doesn't seem to be double checked with God to make sure it is the way to go. You know, the way of man is not always good, even though it seems to be.

We know that many policies and procedures that are used today come from the way it was sent up then. The advice that Jethro gave on the type of men to choose ..."thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness" is still great advice in a world of politicians, judges, leaders and CEO's even today.

 

[Lulav]

I should think that if Jethro's advice was against what G-d wanted he surely would have let him know, directly or through Aaron. We also know that not everything that passed between them was written down.

 

[BukiRob]

I believe it was good that Moses did this. Jethro seems to be saying in this verse, if God commands it /agrees with it...
Moses took his advise but there is no reason to believe that Moses, considering his relationship with God, did not know in his spirit that Jethro was right.

Bad idea.... I was listening not too long ago to christian radio and happened to catch Dr Vernon McGee speaking about this very topic.... What an anointed teacher he was... What he pointed out that was spot on is Moses FAILED to go to G-d.

Moses should NOT have acted on Jethro's advice without first speaking to G-d about it. G-d knew exactly how many people were in the company and G-d told Moses what to do. He should have consulted G-d and asked HIM how to deal with the load on his shoulders.

What Moses should NOT have done is acted without insuring that the advice he was getting was what the Father wanted.

 

[Hank77]

Bad idea.... I was listening not too long ago to christian radio and happened to catch Dr Vernon McGee speaking about this very topic.... What an anointed teacher he was... What he pointed out that was spot on is Moses FAILED to go to G-d.

Moses should NOT have acted on Jethro's advice without first speaking to G-d about it. G-d knew exactly how many people were in the company and G-d told Moses what to do. He should have consulted G-d and asked HIM how to deal with the load on his shoulders.

What Moses should NOT have done is acted without insuring that the advice he was getting was what the Father wanted.

Did McGee have any reason for saying that Moses shouldn't have taken this action, such as did he point to some rebuke from God or some negative consequence because of it?

 

[BukiRob]

Did McGee have any reason for saying that Moses shouldn't have taken this action, such as did he point to some rebuke from God or some negative consequence because of it?

Yes. G-d gave Moses the instructions which he was following until Jethro came in and said to him... you should do this instead.

Moses failed to go to G-d to ensure that was what G-d wanted

 

[Hank77]

Yes. G-d gave Moses the instructions which he was following until Jethro came in and said to him... you should do this instead.

Moses failed to go to G-d to ensure that was what G-d wanted

What were the negative consequences? Did God rebuke Moses?

I based my opinion on the fact that God did not rebuke Moses and that there were not any negative consequences from this decision.

Moses had a relationship with God that was similar to the relationship between Jesus and God, both being the mediator of a covenant between God and His people. This is not any ordinary relationship and God's communications with Moses cannot be compared to anything that I could know or McGee could know.

 

[BukiRob]

What were the negative consequences? Did God rebuke Moses?

I based my opinion on the fact that God did not rebuke Moses and that there were not any negative consequences from this decision.

Moses had a relationship with God that was similar to the relationship between Jesus and God, both being the mediator of a covenant between God and His people. This is not any ordinary relationship and God's communications with Moses cannot be compared to anything that I could know or McGee could know.

Surely you have heard of G-d's permissive will and his perfect will for us? G-d defines marriage as 1 man married to 1 woman... yet in his permissive will he allowed men to enter into the folly of having more than 1 wife (and it always caused problems)

 

[Hank77]

Yes. G-d gave Moses the instructions which he was following until Jethro came in and said to him... you should do this instead.

Moses failed to go to G-d to ensure that was what G-d wanted

Just thought of something else. How many years passed between when God instructed Moses and Jethro spoke to Moses? The reason I wonder is because the population of adults could have grown substantially during those years.

 

[Hank77]

Surely you have heard of G-d's permissive will and his perfect will for us? G-d defines marriage as 1 man married to 1 woman... yet in his permissive will he allowed men to enter into the folly of having more than 1 wife (and it always caused problems)

What was the folly that showed up from this decision?

 

[BukiRob]

What was the folly that showed up from this decision?

Come now, you know enough from reading scripture concerning the railing against the Pharisee's by Yeshua:
2 saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses; 3 therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them. 4 “They tie up heavy burdens and lay them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are unwilling to move them with so much as a finger. 5 “But they do all their deeds to be noticed by men; for they broaden their phylacteries and lengthen the tassels of their garments. 6 “They love the place of honor at banquets and the chief seats in the synagogues, 7 and respectful greetings in the market places, and being called Rabbi by men.

Surely you can see that the Rabbi's are an outgrowth of this decision by Moche right?

 

[Hank77]

Come now, you know enough from reading scripture concerning the railing against the Pharisee's by Yeshua:
2 saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses; 3 therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them. 4 “They tie up heavy burdens and lay them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are unwilling to move them with so much as a finger. 5 “But they do all their deeds to be noticed by men; for they broaden their phylacteries and lengthen the tassels of their garments. 6 “They love the place of honor at banquets and the chief seats in the synagogues, 7 and respectful greetings in the market places, and being called Rabbi by men.

Surely you can see that the Rabbi's are an outgrowth of this decision by Moche right?

No I see the Judges that God appointed but Moses had missed it. Because of Jethro the judges were then freed to take their right full place.
YLT
Deu 1:9 `And I speak unto you at that time, saying, I am not able by myself to bear you;
Deu 1:10 Jehovah your God hath multiplied you, and lo, ye are to-day as the stars of the heavens for multitude;
...
Deu 1:12 `How do I bear by myself your pressure, and your burden, and your strife?
Deu 1:13 Give for yourselves men, wise and intelligent, and known to your tribes, and I set them for your heads;
....
Deu 1:15 `And I take the heads of your tribes, men, wise and known, and I appoint them heads over you, princes of thousands, and princes of hundreds, and princes of fifties, and princes of tens, and authorities, for your tribes.
Deu 1:16 And I command your judges at that time, saying, Hearkening between your brethren--then ye have judged righteousness between a man, and his brother, and his sojourner;
Deu 1:17 ye do not discern faces in judgment; as the little so the great ye do hear; ye are not afraid of the face of any, for the judgment is God's, and the thing which is too hard for you, ye bring near unto me, and I have heard it;
Deu 1:18 and I command you, at that time, all the things which ye do.

The heads/captains/elders of the tribes were already in place before this but Moses was not giving them the place that God intended. Moses didn't choose them, the people did because they knew them and trusted them. God had placed these men among the people. These were the same ones that Moses now sees that they should settle most disputes among the people of their tribes and only bring the more difficult disputes to him.
This is all in agreement with Torah Law, the Law of Moses.

God's appointed judges are always righteous and do good for the people and the people can trust them, as we see in Deut. and in Romans. The Pharisees of Jesus' time were not all such men. Jesus called them vipers. They corrupted the Torah Law with their traditions of their imaginary oral law. They have hidden the real meaning of Torah under layers upon layers of oral law rituals.

 

[BukiRob]

Just thought of something else. How many years passed between when God instructed Moses and Jethro spoke to Moses? The reason I wonder is because the population of adults could have grown substantially during those years.

Numbers 1:46 gives a more precise total of 603,550 men aged 20 and up.

Who left Egypt. The size of the camp would have been over 1 million people and probably closer to 1.3-1.5 million

 

[Open Heart]

I have no disagreement with the advice, for it seems to be of sound reasoning. It is the need to take a second look at it that I am doing. It is not decreed from God. It doesn't seem to be double checked with God to make sure it is the way to go. You know, the way of man is not always good, even though it seems to be.

Things don't always have to be decreed by God. God has given us brains for a reason. This passage of scripture is a good example of this being a good thing.

If it makes you feel better, God completely supported the authority of the judges later, in Deuteronomy 17.

 

[Open Heart]

Surely you can see that the Rabbi's are an outgrowth of this decision by Moche right?

Yes, of course, and your own quote says to do and observe all they teach. God endowed the judges with absolute authority -- anyone who questioned them was to be killed.

 

[BukiRob]

Yes, of course, and your own quote says to do and observe all they teach. God endowed the judges with absolute authority -- anyone who questioned them was to be killed.

That is a consequence and not necessarily the Father's perfect will.

G-d warned Israel about taking a king. Yet he permitted it.... G-d clearly defines what Marriage is 1 woman and 1 Man... yet He has allowed G-dly men to have more than one wife (it always ended up being a problem)

My point is that Moche failed to speak directly with G-d on this matter and G-d allowed it. It was the Fathers permissive will and not his perfect will because Moche never inquired.

 

[Open Heart]

That is a consequence and not necessarily the Father's perfect will.

If God didn't want the Judges, he would have simply disciplined Moses, rather than empowering the judges. The fact that God took it a step FURTHER and granted them extreme authority, shows that it IS his divine will.

Jesus could also have said something like "God allowed it but it was not supposed to be this way" but he DIDN"T. Instead he said, "Do and observe all they teach."

It seems to be God's divine will that we use the brains that He gave us. He had no problem with:

• Jethro advising Moses
• Moses taking the advice
• Judges using their own brains to interpret the law
• Judges having supreme authority to enforce their interpretations