Was Jesus omniscient?

[cubinity]

Now...can you...post some of all those verses saying that God is omniscient?

Can't you?

 

[Goinheix]

I believe in God, the God of the Bible. A Trinity God wich is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. All of them being one, and being God in all the meaning of being God.
I believe that God the Son did come to Earth as a man, as Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus is God since he is God the Son becoming flesh and never quiting to be God.
I believe that God the Son come as Jesus in orther to die at the cross for our sins, being the Messiah or the Christ.
I found that the names "God the Son", "Jesus of Nazaret" and "Christ" refers to a different aspect of a same person: Jesus of Nazaret, who is God the Son and the Christ. And I think that it have causes many confusions the indiscriminate use of those names in the wrong meaning. 1) God the Son is God since the beggining, since the eternal past, continues to be God during his incarnation onn Earth, and now is God in heaven to the future eternity. 2) Jesus of Nazareth is God the Son since birth from Mary as a human baby (actually is from the very conception on her) and it is incorrect and leading to confusion to call God the Son as Jesus before incarnation. 3) Christ refers to the action of taking our sins in the cross, and God (Father) have declared him Christ with the resurrection. 4) The name Jesuschrist is not original of the greek text, but from latin vulgata. The name that Paul coined is Jesus Christ and Christ Jesus. With that name Paul was refering to the Messiah (Christ) that all Jew were expecting and believing; and at the same time, declaring that the Messiah is no other than Jesus of Nazareth. But some confusion commence when Paul declares that Jesus Christ did create the universe. Paul was not refering to Jesus of Nazareth, born in 6BC, but to Christ (who is not other than Jesus).

Concerning the atributes of God the Son, he have all the same atributes as all the Trinity has. My new point of view is that God is not God because he have this and that atribute. God is God because he is God; period. God have atributes because he is God, not that he is God because have atributes. The atributes dont make God to be God, but God being God derive in him having atributes. The point is that God is God indiferent of wich atributes he has. Even it is possible for him to give up to his atributes without loosing his divine condition. Then it is possible to understand kenosis as resigning to the atributes without lessing in the condition of God. In that scenario, it was possible for God the Son to give up all divine atributes without meaning that he were less God.

Actually, it was necesary for God the Son to live as a regular man, but without sin. That was necessary both for being the Lamb and for being the High Priest.

...

 

[Goinheix]

Can't you?

Yes I can; but I will not. There are hunbdreds of guns pointing at me; ready to fire verses saying that God is omniscient. I am waiting they fire one of them to you.

 

[cubinity]

Yes I can; but I will not. There are hunbdreds of guns pointing at me; ready to fire verses saying that God is omniscient. I am waiting they fire one of them to you.

There are no guns here.
Post the verses, or your arguments will not be considered.

 

[Goinheix]

Since the brave soldiers of faith failed to prove God´s omniscience; since the defender of the status quo and the oficial doctrines of the oficial churches failed to give you an answer...here you have some copy-paste by me.

The Bible tells us that God does perceive all things, which means that no fact can be hidden from His knowledge. As King David recognized: “Indeed, the darkness shall not hide from You, but the night shines as the day; the darkness and the light are both alike to You” (Psalm 139:12). God sees all things, and nothing can be hidden from His knowledge—not even the secret intentions of the heart (Psalm 44:21). In fact, He understands our own intentions better than we do (cf. Jeremiah 17:9-10; Hebrews 4:12)! As Paul explains, “there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account” (Hebrews 4:13).
Human beings perceive through the senses, but there are limits to what the senses let us perceive and understand. But God’s senses are not limited like ours! His Spirit searches all things (1 Corinthians 2:10), and nothing is beyond God’s ability to perceive it. In this sense, He is omniscient. Nothing can escape His gaze and His knowledge. If it can be known, He knows it!

Scripture Support:

Psalm 147:4,5
He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names. Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite.
Acts 15:18
Known to God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
Psalm 33:13
The Lord looketh from heaven; he beholdeth all the sons of men.
II Kings 13:19
And the man of God was wroth with him, and said, Thou shouldest have smitten five or six times; then hadst thou smitten Syria till thou hadst consumed it: whereas now thou shalt smite Syria but thrice.
Jeremiah 38:17-20
Then said Jeremiah unto Zedekiah, Thus saith the Lord, the God of hosts, the God of Israel; If thou wilt assuredly go forth unto the king of Babylon's princes, then shall this city be given into the hand of the Chaldeans, and they shall burn it with fire, and thou shalt not escape out of their hand. And Zedekiah the king said unto Jeremiah, I am afraid of the Jews that are fallen to the Chaldeans, lest they deliver me into their hand, and they mock me. But Jeremiah said, They shall not deliver thee. Obey, I beseech thee, the voice of the Lord, which I speak unto thee: so it shall be will unto thee, and thy soul shall live
Romans 4:17
(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickened the dead, and calleth those things which be not though as they were.
Isaiah 46:10
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure.
Matthew 11:21-23
Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
I Samuel 23:5-14
So David and his men went to Keilah, and fought with the Philistines, and brought away their cattle, and smote them with a great slaughter. So David saved the inhabitants of Keilah. And it came to pass, when Abiathar the son of Ahimelech fled to David to Keilah, that he came down with an ephod in his hand. And it was told Saul that David was come to Keilah. And Saul said, God hath delivered him into mine hand; for he is shut in, by entering into a town that hath gates and bars. And Saul called all the people together to war, to go down to Keilah, to besiege David and his men. And David knew that Saul secretly practised mischief against him; and he said to Abiathar the priest, Bring hither the ephod. Then said David, O Lord God of Israel, thy servant hath certainly heard that Saul seeketh to come to Keilah, to destroy the city for my sake. Will the men of Keilah deliver me up into his hand? will Saul come down, as thy servant hath heard? O Lord God of Israel, I beseech thee, tell thy servant. And the Lord said, He will come down. Then said David, Will the men of Keilah deliver me and my men into the hand of Saul? And the Lord said, They will deliver thee up. Then David and his men, which were about six hundred, arose and departed out of Keilah, and went whithersoever they could go. And it was told Saul that David was escaped from Keilah; and he forbare to go forth. And David abode in the wilderness in strong holds, and remained in a mountain in the wilderness of Ziph. And Saul sought him every day, but God delivered him not into his hand.

God is the only One Who possesses limitless knowledge. The Illustrated Oxford Dictionary defines “omniscience” as “knowing everything,” and the Bible certainly ascribes omniscience to God (Psalm 139:1-4; cf. Woods, 1988, p. 34). Consider a sample of what the Bible reveals about God’s omniscience: “The eyes of the Lord are in every place, keeping watch on the evil and the good” (Proverbs 15:3). “Can anyone teach God knowledge, since He judges those on high?” (Job 21:22, emp. added). Consider a few of the implications of God’s omniscience.
God knows every past action. At times, humans struggle to interpret history because we often lack complete historical information. The eternal God, Who had no beginning, has no problems seeing clearly through the mists of time, for history is ever before Him (Isaiah 57:15). God emphasized this when He told Moses in Exodus 3:14, “I Am Who I Am.” John 8:58 reads: “Jesus said to them, ‘Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I Am.’ ” In the Day of Judgment, we will be judged based on God’s complete knowledge of our history (see Revelation 20:12). God cannot be taught anything about the past (Isaiah 40:14).
God knows every present action. Psalm 33:13-15 reads: “The Lord looks from heaven; He sees all the sons of men. From the place of His dwelling He looks on all the inhabitants of the earth; He fashions their hearts individually; He considers all their works.” Despite the uniqueness of each person, God understands everyone individually, and knows everyone personally (see Matthew 10:29-30). God even knows everything that is done privately (Matthew 6:4), so no one can hide from God (see Kizer, 2001, p. 7). God cannot be taught anything about the present (Matthew 28:20; 1 Corinthians 4:5).
God knows every future action. The fact that God gave prophets the capability to predict accurately very specific events in the distant future is one of the great evidences for the inspiration of the Bible (Thompson, 1999, p. 19). God has emphasized repeatedly that He knows the future, perhaps never more emphatically than when Jesus Himself prophesied (see Matthew 24:1-51; Mark 8:31; John 2:19-22). The fact that God knows the future does not imply that humans somehow lose freedom of choice. Just because God knows that something will happen, does not mean that He causes it (see Bales, 1974, p. 49). God cannot be taught anything about the future (Acts 17:31; John 14:3).
God knows every human thought. King David addressed his son: “As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a loyal heart and with a willing mind; for the Lord searches all hearts and understands all the intent of the thoughts. If you seek Him, He will be found by you; but if you forsake Him, He will cast you off forever” (1 Chronicles 28:9). Psalm 94:9-10 reads: “He who planted the ear, shall He not hear? He who formed the eye, shall He not see? He who instructs the nations, shall He not correct, He who teaches man knowledge?” God cannot be taught anything about the content of human intellect (Acts 15:8).
God knows what humans need. Ecclesiastes 2:26 reads: “For God gives wisdom and knowledge and joy to a man who is good in His sight….” Noah of old would have perished in the Flood had God not given him a way of escape. The Israelites could not have conquered Canaan without divine guidance and protection. God has promised that He will provide for the physical needs of those who serve Him (Matthew 6:24-34). Most important, God has identified the problem of sin and death and provided the only possible solution—the blood of His Son (1 Peter 1:18-19).
God knows what is right and wrong, because He defines morality and truth—His Word is the standard for righteous judgment. Hannah wanted desperately to have a child, but she was unable to do so. In her fervent request for God’s intervention, she prayed: “…the Lord is the God of knowledge; and by Him actions are weighed” (1 Samuel 2:3). God has revealed what to do in order to please Him, and He knows of our obedience and disobedience (Proverbs 15:3).
What is the proper response to God’s omniscience? The inspired apostle Paul provided a fitting answer in Colossians 3:24: “And whatever you do, do it heartily, as to the Lord and not to men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance; for you serve the Lord Christ.” Those who refuse to serve the Lord should be frightened by God’s omniscience, because God knows of every sin. And unforgiven sin will be punished (Psalm 90:8; Romans 6:23). For God’s children, however, the implications of God’s knowledge are sources of peace and strength (2 Timothy 2:19; 1 John 3:22; Romans 11:33). Ultimately, the God Who knows everything will judge humans based on how we use the knowledge that has been revealed to us. We must act based on our knowledge to prepare for eternity.
​

 

[cubinity]

Wow. 46 verses or passages! That's a lot! And not a single one in all those 46 say God is omniscient. Sure, they say He knows a whole heck of a lot, certainly a lot more than I do. But, a whole lot still falls short of EVERYTHING! You can't even prove that God possesses one "attribute," so what makes you think you can prove that Jesus doesn't have any of His attributes!?

I respect that Jesus (yes, I am referring to the living, breathing hunk of flesh that got hungry and thirsty and tempted and tired and beaten and killed) is God, and is in all of His attributes God.

I will stand by the truth of who my Lord and my God is. You aren't going to convince me that Jesus wasn't and isn't God.

 

[OzSpen]

I have never ever say that Jesus is not God. please search in this thread and in every thread I have been posting, and you will not found a single time when I say that Jesus is not God; or I denyed Jesus deity.

Now...can you aim your missiles out of me and post some of all those verses saying that God is omniscient? Or is it that you only love to bombard-me?

Go back to #196. There you stated:

I am teaching tha Jesus did not have any divine atribute; including omniscience.

If Jesus does not have any divine attributes, HE IS NOT GOD. Don't you get it?

Otherwise you are saying: "Jesus is God but he has NO divine attributes". That's a nonsense statement!

Oz

 

[Goinheix]

I respect that Jesus (yes, I am referring to the living, breathing hunk of flesh that got hungry and thirsty and tempted and tired and beaten and killed) is God, and is in all of His attributes God.

I will stand by the truth of who my Lord and my God is. You aren't going to convince me that Jesus wasn't and isn't God.

I have never ever say that Jesus isnt God. I am sayiong that he emptied of all his divine atributes. And you can not provide a single verse saying that Jesus had not even one divine atribute. Can you?

 

[cubinity]

John 15:13 - The most significant attribute of God is that He is love. The greatest love. There is no greater love than Him. Jesus states, about himself, that there us no greater love than dying for his friends. That attribute he has in common with His Father, and quite frankly, any other attribute is secondary to that one anyway, in my opinion. That is only one example, but I think it suffices to prove your assertions are misaligned. God bless.

 

[Goinheix]

John 15:13 - The most significant attribute of God is that He is love. The greatest love. There is no greater love than Him. Jesus states, about himself, that there us no greater love than dying for his friends. That attribute he has in common with His Father, and quite frankly, any other attribute is secondary to that one anyway, in my opinion. That is only one example, but I think it suffices to prove your assertions are misaligned. God bless.

I can see that you have non a single atribute of God in Jesus. Jesus did love; he is not love; but he had love. It is by far not enought.

 

[cubinity]

I can see that you have non a single atribute of God in Jesus. Jesus did love; he is not love; but he had love. It is by far not enought.

Until you provide a list of what you consider divine attributes, I will have no other choice but to disregard your argument.

 

[Deaver]

Wow. 46 verses or passages! That's a lot! And not a single one in all those 46 say God is omniscient.

Cubinity, I know you were responding to Goinheix’s post, but I wanted to comment.

Is your position that God is not omniscient? If the definition of omniscience is the capacity to know everything infinitely, then Psalms 147:5b, “his understanding is infinite.” (Or more accurately, “Of his understanding there is no number) seems to support that God is omniscient. That is, there is no limit to it. It is not bounded; there is no point reached where it can be said that there is no more; that it is exhausted.

 

[cubinity]

Cubinity, I know you were responding to Goinheix’s post, but I wanted to comment.

Is your position that God is not omniscient? If the definition of omniscience is the capacity to know everything infinitely, then Psalms 147:5b, “his understanding is infinite.” (Or more accurately, “Of his understanding there is no number) seems to support that God is omniscient. That is, there is no limit to it. It is not bounded; there is no point reached where it can be said that there is no more; that it is exhausted.

I totally respect that some are willing to take poetry as historical fact, and mean no disrespect to anyone who would take this line from a song at face value. My position is not that God is not omniscient, but very specifically that the Captain does not even have a firm handle on what he considers the attributes of God, and thus can't support his claims that Jesus is not, by any common attribute, God.

 

[Goinheix]

I never say that Jesus is not God. You keep on acusing me of saying that. I didnt say that.

I say that Jesus is God emptied of all his divine atributes. And the point is that not you, not nobody did demostrate that Jesus had a single divine atribute. At the same tome, it was demostrated that Jesus was not omnioscient; not omnipotent and not omnipresent. Is that meaning that Jesus is not God. No. That is meaning what kenosis is. emptying of all divine atributes without quiting to be God.

 

[cubinity]

I never say that Jesus is not God. You keep on acusing me of saying that. I didnt say that.

I say that Jesus is God emptied of all his divine atributes. And the point is that not you, not nobody did demostrate that Jesus had a single divine atribute. At the same tome, it was demostrated that Jesus was not omnioscient; not omnipotent and not omnipresent. Is that meaning that Jesus is not God. No. That is meaning what kenosis is. emptying of all divine atributes without quiting to be God.

Until you define what you mean by divine attribute, your argument is just uninterpretable noise.

 

[Deaver]

I never say that Jesus is not God. You keep on acusing me of saying that. I didnt say that.

I say that Jesus is God emptied of all his divine atributes. And the point is that not you, not nobody did demostrate that Jesus had a single divine atribute. At the same tome, it was demostrated that Jesus was not omnioscient; not omnipotent and not omnipresent. Is that meaning that Jesus is not God. No. That is meaning what kenosis is. emptying of all divine atributes without quiting to be God.

Please give us your list of the attributes of God so we can move on with this discussion.

 

[Deaver]

I totally respect that some are willing to take poetry as historical fact, and mean no disrespect to anyone who would take this line from a song at face value.

To address your first point, even though Psalms 147 is poetry or song, we still have cause to celebrate our great God – mighty in power, and infinite in understanding.

My position is not that God is not omniscient, but very specifically that the Captain does not even have a firm handle on what he considers the attributes of God, and thus can't support his claims that Jesus is not, by any common attribute, God.

On your second point, I hope he provides his list of the attributes of God.

 

[cubinity]

To address your first point, even though Psalms 147 is poetry or song, we still have cause to celebrate our great God – mighty in power, and infinite in understanding.



On your second point, I hope he provides his list of the attributes of God.

I accept!

 

[Deaver]

For some insight to the Deity of Christ, go to Chapter 26 of the following link. There is a lot to read, but explained well.

Founders Ministries | Abstract of Systematic Theology by J. P. Boyce

Even though I am not a Baptist, I found this very interesting.

 

[Goinheix]

Until you define what you mean by divine attribute, your argument is just uninterpretable noise.

Lets take for example the nwest country in the World: South Sudan. What are its atributes? What define it? Probably its borders; it name, it flag, it capitl city, its people. If you ask about Soth Sudan those are the atributes that will define the country among 200 others in the World.

What if we change its atributes? Will it quit being South Sudan. What if the borders change? Borders of countries have been moving a lot along the hitory and countries continue to be the same contry. Poland west borded moved to the west; and east border also moved west. The enrire country did move west, and remain being Poland. Examples can be given of countries changing of name, changing the flag, changing the capital, and even changing the people in it.

As you see; an atribute; defining the atributes of something or somebody; does help us to understand what we are talking about; but can be changed without afecting the identity og the thing or person.

We all know of insect and anphibious that do change a lot and several times. But each individual continues to be itself despite the deep modifications.

God is God because he is God. That is the answer to Moses: I am. God is not God for being omniscient. God is omniscient because he is God. Omniscience do not make God to be God. God is God despite or besides being omniscient. Actually we are at this very moment discussing if God is omniscient or not. If we dont found a verse saying that he is omniscient; then we have to accept that he is not. And then we have to modify our list of atributes of God. The same with the rest of atributes that WE identify in God. God is God for being God. If we found that God is spirt then God is spirit. If we found that God is light then he is light. Is not what we made a previous list of things that God has to be, and then check if God relly is what we have listed. God is God, and its atributes are concecuense of him being what he is. Not the oposite way. Not that God became God for being this and that.

If we accept that God will condinues to be God even if he is not omniscient. Then we are ready to understand kenosis. Kenosis is emtying. By emptying means becoming cero. Kenosis have not been understood because it is not acceptable for God to emty of a divine atribute. That is a human understanding; not waht the Bible teched us.