was Jesus omnipresent?

[Maite Els]

CF strongly support the concept of Jesus not being omnipresent.
CF states that according to the Nicese Creed:

"Who for us men and for our salvation (1Timothy 2:4-5)
came down from Heaven, (John 6:33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, (Luke 1:35)
and became man. (John 1:14)"

It is clear that for the orthodox doctrine and for the CF in particular, Jesus came down from Heaven. Obiously Jesus came down to where he was not, and probably by coming down from Heaven he were not any longer at Heaven (from where he came)
Also, CF declares that according to the same Nicene Creed, Jesus became man. And we have to presume that men are not omnipresent.

Thanks and blessings.

 

[netchaplain]

CF strongly support the concept of Jesus not being omnipresent.
CF states that according to the Nicese Creed:

"Who for us men and for our salvation (1Timothy 2:4-5)
came down from Heaven, (John 6:33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, (Luke 1:35)
and became man. (John 1:14)"

It is clear that for the orthodox doctrine and for the CF in particular, Jesus came down from Heaven. Obiously Jesus came down to where he was not, and probably by coming down from Heaven he were not any longer at Heaven (from where he came)
Also, CF declares that according to the same Nicene Creed, Jesus became man. And we have to presume that men are not omnipresent.

Thanks and blessings.

Hi ME - This is an important issue you've posted because I find understanding omnipresence to be a significant instruction when understanding deity, which only exists within the trinity.

I believe the Lord Jesus was and is omnipresent in His spiritual body, just not in His physical body.

"Not that He was in heaven in His human nature and as He was the Son of man; but in His divine nature, as He was the Son of God." -John Gill.

"No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him" (John 1:18 NKJ).

"“No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven" (John 3:13 NKJ).

As a note of interest, the translations derived from the Minority Text (as opposed to the Majority Text) have detracted the Lord Jesus' deity from passages such as these and thus, reflect less on His sovereignty; as they do also the Holy Spirit's omnipresence in 1 John 5:7 (also known as the "Comma Johanneum," of which the KJ translators had enough manuscript evidence to validate it as canonical).

I also wanted to ask who is CF?

God's blessings to your Family!

 

[Maite Els]

Hi ME - This is an important issue you've posted because I find understanding omnipresence to be a significant instruction when understanding deity, which only exists within the trinity.

I believe the Lord Jesus was and is omnipresent in His spiritual body, just not in His physical body.

"Not that He was in heaven in His human nature and as He was the Son of man; but in His divine nature, as He was the Son of God." -John Gill.

"No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him" (John 1:18 NKJ).

"“No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven" (John 3:13 NKJ).

As a note of interest, the translations derived from the Minority Text (as opposed to the Majority Text) have detracted the Lord Jesus' deity from passages such as these and thus, reflect less on His sovereignty; as they do also the Holy Spirit's omnipresence in 1 John 5:7 (also known as the "Comma Johanneum," of which the KJ translators had enough manuscript evidence to validate it as canonical).

I also wanted to ask who is CF?

God's blessings to your Family!

CF is Christian Forum (this very forum)
It is OK for you to believe that "the Lord Jesus is omnipresent". I will not violent your private spiritual life. There is many Christians that have such unorthodox believe.


It is also good to know and understand that such personal believe is not based in any scriptural text, not in any of the patristics, and is not supported by the Nicene Creed and Constantinople Creed.

 

[elopez]

CF supports the Trinity. The doctrine of the Trinity states that each persons are co - equal, meaning that since the Father is eternal so too is the Son and Spirit. That same goes for the other attributes of God too, for example omnipresence.

You could say we believe Christ came from Heaven, but to assume Christ is no longer omnipresent because he was incarnate is to falsely assume omnipresence means some sense of a dimensive quantity, as well as incorrectly thinking Heaven could be a type of dimensive space that one could occupy.

Omnipresence should be defined by God's power, essence, and presence. God has power over all things, His essence is in all things by way of God either causing or indirectly causing its existence, and as God knows all He is present everywhere by said knowledge. Each of those truths that make God omnipresent are equally same for Christ, as Christ is God and did not cease to be God once incarnated.

 

[Maite Els]

If you want to understand that omnipresence is having unlimited power; then omnipotence will be being everywhere. Omnipresence is about being everywhere; period. And Jesus clearly was not everywhere.

Is the lack of omnipresence making Jesus not equal of God? Being equal to God is having all his atributes; it is having the same essesnce; it is being what God is. Is God omnipresent?

 

[steamforthis]

If you want to understand that omnipresence is having unlimited power; then omnipotence will be being everywhere. Omnipresence is about being everywhere; period. And Jesus clearly was not everywhere.

Is the lack of omnipresence making Jesus not equal of God? Being equal to God is having all his atributes; it is having the same essesnce; it is being what God is. Is God omnipresent?

When He was on earth, He limited Himself. So, technically, no, He was not omnipresent on earth. Of course, at any given moment, He could have reverted back to His Godly form.

 

[Maite Els]

When He was on earth, He limited Himself. So, technically, no, He was not omnipresent on earth. Of course, at any given moment, He could have reverted back to His Godly form.

Did you read that in the Bible?
Perhaps Pilates and Herod where omnipresent too, but they limited their presences.

 

[steamforthis]

Did you read that in the Bible?
Perhaps Pilates and Herod where omnipresent too, but they limited their presences.

"Perhaps".

See, now you're just being silly. "What if" questions are endless.

What if you don't even exist? What if this entire world is just a dream that someone is having? What if Jesus was a Martian? While we're at it, perhaps I'm omnipresent too.

 

[Maite Els]

"Perhaps".

See, now you're just being silly. "What if" questions are endless.

What if you don't even exist? What if this entire world is just a dream that someone is having? What if Jesus was a Martian? While we're at it, perhaps I'm omnipresent too.

You got the point. What if Jesus was omnipresent? There is not any reason why we shall start proposing things we dont read in the Bible. We dont read of Jesus being a Martian as well we dont read of Jesus being omnipresent.

 

[Knee V]

"Came down from heaven" does not mean that he changed locations, but rather that he lowered himself, or humbled himself, and thereby he has visited us.

 

[Knee V]

And while Jesus was on earth in the flesh, and even while his body was a mass of cells with no heart beat, he was ordering the universe and holding all things together.

Jesus says something interesting in John chapter 3. He said that "no one has ascended into heaven except he who who has come down from heaven, even the Son of man who is in heaven." Right there, while he was still on earth, Jesus was claiming to be in heaven.

 

[Maite Els]

"Came down from heaven" does not mean that he changed locations, but rather that he lowered himself, or humbled himself, and thereby he has visited us.

You mean That before encarnation Jesus was already here?
Do you mean that the ascension was nothing and Jesus already was at heaven?
Do you mean that the second coming is not such because Jesus is already here?

 

[Maite Els]

And while Jesus was on earth in the flesh, and even while his body was a mass of cells with no heart beat, he was ordering the universe and holding all things together.

Jesus says something interesting in John chapter 3. He said that "no one has ascended into heaven except he who who has come down from heaven, even the Son of man who is in heaven." Right there, while he was still on earth, Jesus was claiming to be in heaven.

John 3:13-ss are not words of Jesus but of John. John is saying that Jesus has ascended into Heaven. That is a reference for the ascencion after resurrection. For John. writing in 90DA it is past time. It makes not sence Jesus saying that he has ascended already.

You have no escape out (except "Hat Mode" and closing the treath). Christ was in Heaven, come down, ascended and is in Heaven. He come down to where he was not. He ascended to where he was not.

 

[Knee V]

John 3:13-ss are not words of Jesus but of John. John is saying that Jesus has ascended into Heaven. That is a reference for the ascencion after resurrection. For John. writing in 90DA it is past time. It makes not sence Jesus saying that he has ascended already.

You have no escape out (except "Hat Mode" and closing the treath). Christ was in Heaven, come down, ascended and is in Heaven. He come down to where he was not. He ascended to where he was not.

I don't need an escape. I have the historic interpretation of the historic church, and you have your own imagination. I'll take the historic church. You cannot divorce the Scriptures from the life of the Church out of which the Scriptures come to us, which is exactly what you have to do to come to your conclusions. So yes, it means exactly what I said it means, because the Church has believed that from the beginning, and it is the Church, not the Scriptures, which is the pillar and ground of Truth, and it is thereby that we can know what is truth and what is error.

 

[Maite Els]

I don't need an escape. I have the historic interpretation of the historic church, and you have your own imagination. I'll take the historic church. You cannot divorce the Scriptures from the life of the Church out of which the Scriptures come to us, which is exactly what you have to do to come to your conclusions. So yes, it means exactly what I said it means, because the Church has believed that from the beginning, and it is the Church, not the Scriptures, which is the pillar and ground of Truth, and it is thereby that we can know what is truth and what is error.

I will not discus what the Church say or teach. The Scriptures, the early christians and the Nicene and Constantinople Creeds declare that Jesus was not omnipresent. Period.

 

[Knee V]

I will not discus what the Church say or teach. The Scriptures, the early christians and the Nicene and Constantinople Creeds declare that Jesus was not omnipresent. Period.

The Church, the Scriptures, the early Christians, and the Councils all teach the same thing.

 

[Maite Els]

"Came down from heaven" does not mean that he changed locations, but rather that he lowered himself, or humbled himself, and thereby he has visited us.

That is your interpretation and your imagination.

 

[Maite Els]

The Church, the Scriptures, the early Christians, and the Councils all teach the same thing.

Not. The Church teach that Jesus was omnipresent.

 

[Simonline]

CF strongly support the concept of Jesus not being omnipresent.
CF states that according to the Nicene Creed:

"Who for us men and for our salvation (1Timothy 2:4-5)
came down from Heaven, (John 6:33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, (Luke 1:35)
and became man. (John 1:14)"

It is clear that for the orthodox doctrine and for the CF in particular, Jesus came down from Heaven. Obiously Jesus came down to where he was not, and probably by coming down from Heaven he were not any longer at Heaven (from where he came)
Also, CF declares that according to the same Nicene Creed, Jesus became man. And we have to presume that men are not omnipresent.

Thanks and blessings.

The One Who incarnated was not the human creature Jesus of Nazareth but the Divine Creator YHWH (Jn.1:1) and in incarnating He came into existence as the human creature Jesus of Nazareth (Jn.1:14; 1Jn.4:1-3) whilst remaining in existence as the Divine Creator YHWH (Mal.3:6; Matt.1:23).

Time to start building one's theology on the basis of Scripture and NOT on the basis of current ecclesiastical convention which is invariably wrong. The human creature Jesus of Nazareth is no more Divine than the Divine Creator YHWH is human but by means of the Incarnation and the hypostatic union the Son as the Messiah/Christ is now both Divine Creator and human creature.

Simonline.

 

[Simonline]

The Church, the Scriptures, the early Christians, and the Councils all teach the same thing.

Then why do so many Christians erroneously believe that 'Jesus is 100% God and 100% man'?!

Nothing could be further from the truth that God has revealed through the Judeo-Christian Scriptures as His Divine Revelation.

Simonline.