Was it PRIDE and mocking the enemy that made Elijah vulnerable to fear?

[topher694]

This relates to the replies to this discussion as well as to the results of the poll so far because if we think that Elijah had ZERO fear of Queen Jezebel and her loyal soldiers........ then we are raising the bar for ourselves unrealistically high......... by thinking that Elijah........ was NOT subject to like passions as we are!




Was PRIDE and mocking the enemy what made Elijah vulnerable to FEAR?
Edit

1. 
   NO
   9 vote(s)
   90.0%
2. *
   YES
   1 vote(s)
   10.0%
3. 
   That is a good theory that I shall research and pray about!
   0 vote(s)
   0.0%

Change Your Vote




Jas 5:17

Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.

You keep trying to force something into the story that isn't there. Perhaps instead of focusing on wild theories, what if's, and polls you should focus Jesus and your own spiritual growth.

 

[DennisTate]

Isaiah 55:10 For as the rain cometh down and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, and giveth seed to the sower and bread to the eater; 11 so shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Isaiah 46:
9For I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is no one like Me,

10Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things which have not been done,
Saying, ‘My purpose will be established,
And I will accomplish all My good pleasure’;

Genesis 3:15 "and I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed: he shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, have you ignorant of this mystery, lest ye be wise in your own conceits, that a hardening in part hath befallen Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in; 26 and so all Israel shall be saved: even as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer; He shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 And this is my covenant unto them, When I shall take away their sins.

28 As touching the gospel, they are enemies for your sake: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sake.

29 For the gifts and the calling of God are not repented of.

30 For as ye in time past were disobedient to God, but now have obtained mercy by their disobedience, 31 even so have these also now been disobedient, that by the mercy shown to you they also may now obtain mercy.

32 For God hath shut up all unto disobedience, that he might have mercy upon all.

"32 For God hath shut up all unto disobedience, that he might have mercy upon all"

There is more gold in that verse than we tend to imagine at first......

 

[DennisTate]

I am unsure how a poll has anything to do with truth.

Just as well the lady caught in adultery was not subject to a poll...

God was mocking through Elijah...

The bar is already way too high by way of the example of Jesus - Just as well this will not figure in the judgement of those truly in faith as our righteousness is as filthy rags.

For anyone who has truely moved in a ministry of power, they will know it is all about Him and nothing about us.

The point of quoting the poll is to show that the majority of the posters here seem to believe that Elijah could not experienced fear..........

He was human and the scripture states clearly that he was subject to "like passions" as all of us but in spite of this .... he still had astonishing faith.

I find the fact that he had great faith in spite of his being human and feeling fear to be truly encouraging and I am reminded of the example of Christians at this time in Iran who are accomplishing something astonishing in spite of the fact that they face fear every day.

Fastest growing church has no buildings, no central leadership, and is mostly led by women | God Reports

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Just as well the lady caught in adultery was not subject to a poll...

Yet most people today are... (it seems) .... 'majority' opinion in and out of 'church'... (not good, but that is what it is ) ....


(God is NOT democratic!) NO! Not at all! Never! No, not ever!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The point of quoting the poll is to show that the majority of the posters here seem to believe that Elijah could not experienced fear..........

"most posters" ... "most readers",.... "most people on earth".....

not reliable info, eh?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I find the fact that he had great faith in spite of his being human and feeling fear to be truly encouraging and I am reminded of the example of Christians at this time in Iran who are accomplishing something astonishing in spite of the fact that they face fear every day.

GOOD!

 

[topher694]

The point of quoting the poll is to show that the majority of the posters here seem to believe that Elijah could not experienced fear..........

He was human and the scripture states clearly that he was subject to "like passions" as all of us but in spite of this .... he still had astonishing faith.

I find the fact that he had great faith in spite of his being human and feeling fear to be truly encouraging and I am reminded of the example of Christians at this time in Iran who are accomplishing something astonishing in spite of the fact that they face fear every day.

Fastest growing church has no buildings, no central leadership, and is mostly led by women | God Reports

Dude whatever slim bit of credibility you might have still had went bye-bye here. Your post and poll were about if pride and mocking made Elijah vulnerable to fear. Now you use the results to say whomever answered "no" thinks that Elijah "could not have experienced fear"??? That is NOT the same thing. Not even close. It's a bait and switch. It is dishonest. You are twisting the poll results to fit your narrative same as you are twisting the scripture.

Let me explain it another way. Elijah most certainly did experience fear and was just as vulnerable to it as any of us, but what opened the door to fear in his life was NOT mocking the prophets of Baal.

You need to drop this and do some serious self-examination.

 

[Carl Emerson]

By the way the verse quoted from KJV "like passions" is a poor translation of the greek... "having a like nature" is better.

 

[DennisTate]

Dude whatever slim bit of credibility you might have still had went bye-bye here. Your post and poll were about if pride and mocking made Elijah vulnerable to fear. Now you use the results to say whomever answered "no" thinks that Elijah "could not have experienced fear"??? That is NOT the same thing. Not even close. It's a bait and switch. It is dishonest. You are twisting the poll results to fit your narrative same as you are twisting the scripture.

Let me explain it another way. Elijah most certainly did experience fear and was just as vulnerable to it as any of us, but what opened the door to fear in his life was NOT mocking the prophets of Baal.

You need to drop this and do some serious self-examination.

Actually the pastor who did the video quoted in the opening post stated that our using mockery may give our opponents in the spiritual realms something that they can use against us which could lead to our being defeated.

That idea fits with our eventually having to give account for every idle word that we speak.

What the poll meant to me and what it meant to others can significantly vary based one what we are experiencing in our own lives.

 

[topher694]

Actually the pastor who did the video quoted in the opening post stated that our using mockery may give our opponents in the spiritual realms something that they can use against us which could lead to our being defeated.

That idea fits with our eventually having to give account for every idle word that we speak.

Well, this pastor says he is wrong about Elijah. 1 Kings 18 & 19 is probably one of the top 3 things I have preached on the most. I know it very, very well. Wrong heart and motives can absolutely open up doors to the enemy, but it simply is not the case in this scripture. At least not with the mocking.

What the poll meant to me and what it meant to others can significantly vary based one what we are experiencing in our own lives.

This is silly and simply a justification for dishonesty (which btw, could give your opponents in the spiritual realms something to use against you which could lead to your being defeated). The poll asked a direct question. People gave a direct answer. Then you changed the question and the answers to be something else entirely. Dishonest.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I must say that I categorically disagree with this theory.

As I stated earlier it was God through Elijah that was mocking - the mocking did not come from Elijah's flesh -period.

Whoever came up with this fancy theory has missed what was actually going on and is simply tickling ears.

 

[DennisTate]

Well, this pastor says he is wrong about Elijah. 1 Kings 18 & 19 is probably one of the top 3 things I have preached on the most. I know it very, very well. Wrong heart and motives can absolutely open up doors to the enemy, but it simply is not the case in this scripture. At least not with the mocking.



This is silly and simply a justification for dishonesty (which btw, could give your opponents in the spiritual realms something to use against you which could lead to your being defeated). The poll asked a direct question. People gave a direct answer. Then you changed the question and the answers to be something else entirely. Dishonest.

Good points... and I have to admit that the soul searching that I just did over the past hour or so was rather revealing..........

... thank you for your prayers as well.......
it is rather obvious when somebody prays for us and we gain further insights into our own flaws and errors.

 

[DennisTate]

I must say that I categorically disagree with this theory.

As I stated earlier it was God through Elijah that was mocking - the mocking did not come from Elijah's flesh -period.

Whoever came up with this fancy theory has missed what was actually going on and is simply tickling ears.

Here is how this hit me when I first heard this.......

Elijah never got to read what Messiah Yeshua - Jesus said about calling somebody a fool.......

but these statements would be true..... even seven centuries before they were clarified for us?!

So how would this affect the whole situation????

Is this irrelevant due to the Prophets of Baal not being Elijah's brothers??

The parable of the Good Samaritan sure seems to expand who the word brethren should be applied to??

Matthew 5

Mat 5:22

But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

 

[Neogaia777]

Elijah mocked their gods, and it was really God through him mocking their gods, I don't recall him ever calling anybody a fool...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Let me explain it another way. Elijah most certainly did experience fear and was just as vulnerable to it as any of us, but what opened the door to fear in his life was NOT mocking the prophets of Baal.

No, it wasn't, it was what I said in post#40...

God Bless!

 

[DennisTate]

Elijah mocked their gods, and it was really God through him mocking their gods, I don't recall him ever calling anybody a fool...

God Bless!

And I have to admit that God through Isaiah sure is rather merciless with those who make graven images or idols.

Isaiah 44

Isa 44:15

Then he uses part of the wood to make a fire.
With it he warms himself and bakes his bread.
Then—yes, it's true—he takes the rest of it
and makes himself a god to worship!
He makes an idol
and bows down in front of it!

 

[DennisTate]

No, what made Him run was the threat that Jezebel was going to petition the gods, and his God even, that by that time tomorrow or the next day, that she would make his soul just as guilty as the false prophets he had killed or put to death... Or make his soul just like one of their's, etc...

And he (Elijah) felt that she could, even knew that she could, and it scared the hell out of him...

So, he ran, started asking God to kill him since he was no better than them, and/or his father's who had become false in times past, etc...

So, God had to comfort him and reassure him, etc... Send him back out again after He had done that, etc...

Now maybe he had become a little bit proud of puffed up a little bit maybe, saying how he was very jealous or zealous for God, etc, but that bubble was instantly popped with Jezebel's threats, etc...

God had to comfort him and reassure him, etc... That he had done no wrong and did in fact do a "very good thing", etc... That He (God) was with him, etc, and was fully with him in what he (Elijah) did, etc, and was not going to change His mind on that either, ever, etc...

God Bless!

Interesting..... I never really thought of that angle on this before.

I always that thought that her threat was that Elijah would be dead within twenty four hours.

 

[topher694]

Here is how this hit me when I first heard this.......

Elijah never got to read what Messiah Yeshua - Jesus said about calling somebody a fool.......

but these statements would be true..... even seven centuries before they were clarified for us?!

So how would this affect the whole situation????

Is this irrelevant due to the Prophets of Baal not being Elijah's brothers??

The parable of the Good Samaritan sure seems to expand who the word brethren should be applied to??

Matthew 5

Mat 5:22

But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

The prophets of Baal and Jezebel were actively opposing God and leading His people astray. That is a very different thing than being kind to strangers. God takes that seriously. Jesus was pretty harsh to the pharisees (whitewashed tombs, snakes...) for somewhat similar reasons.

 

[DennisTate]

The prophets of Baal and Jezebel were actively opposing God and leading His people astray. That is a very different thing than being kind to strangers. God takes that seriously. Jesus was pretty harsh to the pharisees (whitewashed tombs, snakes...) for somewhat similar reasons.

Yes........
the reason why the poll question and the video clip in the opening post looks different to me is because I am thinking back on why my old church the Worldwide Church of God probably was divided in many, many directions by God.

I am thinking that bragging set up my old church for severe correction by God......

I know that we were guilty of pride.... and it was like the pride opened the door to a bunch of other problems... that soon led to the church being scattered.....

Did the pride of denominationalism make the leadership of the WWCG open to fear.... Yes.... I think that it did.....

So maybe I am comparing the situation in the life of Elijah too much with my own life experience in the church that I was a part of from 1973 to 1991?????

 

[topher694]

Yes........
the reason why the poll question and the video clip in the opening post looks different to me is because I am thinking back on why my old church the Worldwide Church of God probably was divided in many, many directions by God.

I am thinking that bragging set up my old church for severe correction by God......

I know that we were guilty of pride.... and it was like the pride opened the door to a bunch of other problems... that soon led to the church being scattered.....

Did the pride of denominationalism make the leadership of the WWCG open to fear.... Yes.... I think that it did.....

So maybe I am comparing the situation in the life of Elijah too much with my own life experience in the church that I was a part of from 1973 to 1991?????

That's a distinct possibility. I don't doubt your experience at that church. I know things like that happen far to often. The trick is not to let the mistakes and shortcomings of others become our own stumbling block. This is why forgiveness is so important.