Was it PRIDE and mocking the enemy that made Elijah vulnerable to fear?

[A_Thinker]

Did Elijah sin?

Ever ???

 

[DennisTate]

I'm not sure how this is relevant to the original question.

If Queen Jezebel and her most loyal servants were in fact treating the sons of the prophets a lot like Nazi Germany treated Jews, (which is a logical conclusion from Elijah's assumption that he was the only one left and all the servants of God were dead).... then it is logical to think that Elijah felt animosity toward the soldiers loyal to Jezebel.

James 5
Jas 5:17
"Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months."

1 Kings 19

9 And he came thither unto a cave, and lodged there; and, behold, the word of Jehovah came to him, and he said unto him, What doest thou here, Elijah?

10 And he said, I have been very jealous for Jehovah, the God of hosts; for the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword: and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.

 

[A_Thinker]

Proverbs 16:18
"Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall."

Elijah did not fall (though he did falter) ... nor was he destroyed ...

 

[topher694]

If Queen Jezebel and her most loyal servants were in fact treating the sons of the prophets a lot like Nazi Germany treated Jews, (which is a logical conclusion from Elijah's assumption that he was the only one left and all the servants of God were dead).... then it is logical to think that Elijah felt animosity toward the soldiers loyal to Jezebel.

James 5
Jas 5:17
"Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months."

1 Kings 19

9 And he came thither unto a cave, and lodged there; and, behold, the word of Jehovah came to him, and he said unto him, What doest thou here, Elijah?

10 And he said, I have been very jealous for Jehovah, the God of hosts; for the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword: and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.

Again I fail to see your point. The OP was about pride, now you're talking about animosity towards Jezebel. Sure he didn't like her, but that in no way means he did something wrong while challenging her prophets.

This scripture just illustrates my point: hope deferred.

 

[DennisTate]

Possibly a connection >

The third captain did use humility, and he was spared by the LORD. Humility had things work out well, for the third captain.

But Dennis is saying that may be Elijah was lacking in humility while mocking the priests of Baal. And so, eventually, he was running instead of gunning for Jezebel.

Elijah was not consistent, because he was not Jesus. In early scripture we see how things can go wrong because only Jesus can get things done right. The often failure of even prophets possibly is meant to show how in order for things to really go right, we would need for Jesus to come and die for us and be raised from the dead to rule us from Heaven's throne.

And, of course, this is because Jesus is humble . . . all the time. So, the third captain's humility shows how Jesus is the way to make things work, while the failure even of Elijah shows how people not acting in humility can fail because only Jesus can have things really work well, consistently.

So, in any case, both examples help to show how only with Jesus and humility can we have things work out really right.

Yes... that is exactly what I am thinking and if it is true that a massive Awakening is soon to occur then it will be important for us to remember humility even after great victories.


I thought that this was an exceptionally insightful writing on humility:

The Final Quest [English] Rick Joyner

(Rick Joyner, The Final Quest):

The Deadly Trap

I then looked out over the carnage below, and the slowly retreating demonic army. Behind me more of the glorious warriors were constantly taking their places on the mountain. I knew there was now enough to attack and destroy what was left of this enemy horde. "Not yet," said Wisdom. "Look over there." I looked in the direction in which he was pointing, but had to shield my eyes from the glory emanating from my own armor to see anything. Then I caught a glimpse of movement in a valley.

I could not make out what I was seeing, because the glory being emitted from my armor made it difficult to see into the darkness. I asked Wisdom to give me something to cover my armor with so I could see it. He then gave me a very plain mantel to put on. "What is this?" I inquired, a little insulted by its drabness. "Humility," said Wisdom. "You will not be able to see very well without it." Reluctantly I put it on and immediately I saw many things that I could not see before. I looked toward the valley and the movement I had seen. To my astonishment there was an entire division of the enemy horde that was waiting to ambush anyone who ventures from the mountain.

"What army it that?" I asked, "and how did they escape the battle intact?"

"That is Pride," explained Wisdom. "That is the hardest enemy to see after you have been in the glory. Those who refuse to put on this cloak will suffer much at the hands of this most devious enemy."

As I looked back at the mountain I saw many of the glorious warriors crossing the plain to attack the remnants of the enemy horde. None of them were wearing the cloaks of humility and they had not seen the enemy that was ready to attack them from their rear. I started to run out to stop them, but Wisdom restrained me. "You cannot stop this," he said. "Only the soldiers who wear this cloak will recognize your authority. Come with me. There is something else that you must see before you can help lead in the great battle that is to come."

The Foundation of Glory

Wisdom led me down the mountain to the very lowest level, which was named "Salvation." "You think that this is the lowest level," declared Wisdom, "but this is the foundation of the whole mountain. In any journey, the first step is the most important, and it is usually the most difficult. Without 'Salvation' there would be no mountain."

I was appalled by the carnage on this level. Every soldier was very badly wounded, but none of them were dead. Multitudes were barely clinging to the edge. Many seemed ready to fall off at any moment, but none did. Angels were everywhere ministering to the soldiers with such great joy that I asked, "Why are they so happy?"

 

[Aussie Pete]

Pastor Mark Brisebois puts forward what I think is a brilliant theory on how Elijah became so vulnerable to the threat by Queen Jezebel..........
even after an astonishing victory!



WATCHMAN ON THE WALL MINISTRIES
19 hrs ·



Could the prophet Elijah have altered history if he had NOT........

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2487539511345372

It's a theory not supported by the Word. If Elijah had been full of pride and disobeying God, the miracles would not have happened. I believe that Elijah put all that he had and was into the situation. I suspect that he let his guard down, thinking that Ahab and Jezebel would learn from the miracles and the end of the priests of Baal. It's not unusual for people to have downers after great spiritual battles. Charles Spurgeon, man of God that he was, suffered depression from time to time. Not what you would expect from such a man. Yet it shows that we are human and we have limits.
There were many prophets that served God well, even dying for their faith. Only Elijah was on the Mount of Transfiguration.
As to mockery, Lord Jesus was not averse to dishing it up to the Pharisees. Would history have been altered? I don't know. Personally, I believe God is in control. I don't believe that speculation is of any use. Where do you stop? If David had not committed adultery, Solomon would not have been born.... and on it goes.

 

[Dave L]

More information here:

4 But he himself went a day's journey into the wilderness, and came and sat down under a juniper-tree: and he requested for himself that he might die, and said, It is enough; now, O Jehovah, take away my life; for I am not better than my fathers.

I think any spiritual person feels this remorse at times. But I don't believe Elijah who controlled the rain would be fearful of anything.

 

[DennisTate]

It's a theory not supported by the Word. If Elijah had been full of pride and disobeying God, the miracles would not have happened. I believe that Elijah put all that he had and was into the situation. I suspect that he let his guard down, thinking that Ahab and Jezebel would learn from the miracles and the end of the priests of Baal. It's not unusual for people to have downers after great spiritual battles. Charles Spurgeon, man of God that he was, suffered depression from time to time. Not what you would expect from such a man. Yet it shows that we are human and we have limits.
There were many prophets that served God well, even dying for their faith. Only Elijah was on the Mount of Transfiguration.
As to mockery, Lord Jesus was not averse to dishing it up to the Pharisees. Would history have been altered? I don't know. Personally, I believe God is in control. I don't believe that speculation is of any use. Where do you stop? If David had not committed adultery, Solomon would not have been born.... and on it goes.

James 5:17
"Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months."

1Corinthians 10:11
"Now all these things happened to them as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come."

 

[DennisTate]

I think any spiritual person feels this remorse at times. But I don't believe Elijah who controlled the rain would be fearful of anything.

James 5:17
"Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months."

Even Messiah Yeshua - Jesus prayed and asked about the cup passing from him!

Matthew 26:39
"And going forward a little he fell upon his face, praying and saying, My Father, if it be possible let this cup pass from me; but not as *I* will, but as *thou* wilt."

 

[DennisTate]

Again I fail to see your point. The OP was about pride, now you're talking about animosity towards Jezebel. Sure he didn't like her, but that in no way means he did something wrong while challenging her prophets.

This scripture just illustrates my point: hope deferred.

Obviously Queen Jezebel and her loyal followers killing the vast majority of Elijah's friends the sons of the prophets would make him angry. The only seven thousand who were left were in hiding and even Elijah himself did not know about them until God told him.

Being angry can cause any human to react with some pride.

The phrase "subject to like passions as we are" does not mean exclusively positive emotions but negative ones as well..... but these human frailties did not stop Elijah from having great faith.

James 5:17
"Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months."

 

[DennisTate]

Yes, he was a faithful prophet as God confirms.
Study Guide for 1 Kings 19 by David Guzik

But being faithful does not mean being perfect and sinless....
like Messiah Yeshua - Jesus was and if an error is pointed out in the context of the situation for us to learn from in these latter days then it is a good thing if we consider this.

Romans 5:12
"For this cause, even as by one man sin entered into the world, and by sin death; and thus death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

Rom 3:23
"for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

Elijah never got to read Matthew 5
Matthew 6
and Matthew 7
so there were parts of the full plan of God that were not revealed yet that could have helped him to avoid this problem if he had known about these yet unrevealed truths.

 

[Dave L]

James 5:17
"Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months."

Even Messiah Yeshua - Jesus prayed and asked about the cup passing from him!

Matthew 26:39
"And going forward a little he fell upon his face, praying and saying, My Father, if it be possible let this cup pass from me; but not as *I* will, but as *thou* wilt."

But it doesn't say he was frightened. It says he remorsed over being like his father.

 

[DennisTate]

He knew the potential harm that could come upon him from acting in his own strength and stepping beyond appointed spiritual exploits.

From Exodus 23
29 I will not drive them out before you in a single year; otherwise the land would become desolate and wild animals would multiply against you. 30 Little by little I will drive them out ahead of you, until you become fruitful and possess the land. 31 And I will establish your borders from the Red Sea to the Sea of the Philistines, and from the desert to the Euphrates. For I will deliver the inhabitants into your hand, and you will drive them out before you.…

True... but I did like the theory that God may have wanted to make the time of Elijah one in which the northern kingdom of Israel might return to God out of extreme apostasy.

The situation now looks pretty awful but I really like the predictions about an Awakening happening at this time that will include may of the most messed up.

2020 to 2030 is predicted to be a time of Awakening by God.

 

[DennisTate]

But it doesn't say he was frightened. It says he remorsed over being like his father.

But it says clearly that he was "subject to like passions" as the rest of us and Queen Jezebel had threatened his life.

Christian Forums

Then Jezebel send a messenger unto Elijah, saying, So let the gods do to me, and more also, if I make not thy life as the life of one of them by to-morrow about this time.

 

[Dave L]

But it says clearly that he was "subject to like passions" as the rest of us and Queen Jezebel had threatened his life.

Christian Forums

Then Jezebel send a messenger unto Elijah, saying, So let the gods do to me, and more also, if I make not thy life as the life of one of them by to-morrow about this time.

Please don't add your's or your pastor's ideas to scripture.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Mute point.

But being faithful does not mean being perfect and sinless....

-----------------------
False assumption.

so there were parts of the full plan of God that were not revealed yet that could have helped him to avoid this problem if he had known about these yet unrevealed truths.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Please don't add your's or your pastor's ideas to scripture.

His leaders, the ones he has posted long about, 'very excited', have replaced Scripture with false teachings. (from all his posts this is sad and obvious)

 

[Woke]

Indeed he did.....
and I have to admit that I feel that I must take this warning very, very seriously because I know that I tend to be argumentative and less than humble in many of the debates that I get going!

I got a discussion going a few months ago about how perhaps Elijah had been in a position where he could have altered history for the better if he had not ran away from Queen Jezebel and her armies?

Could the prophet Elijah have altered history if he had NOT........

... RAN AWAY from Queen Jezebel and her armies?

In 1979 I was at the Worldwide Church of God Festival of Tabernacles / Sukkot in Charlottetown, P. E. I., ..... .and a Pastor gave a sermon on I Kings chapter 18........ and added some bonus material.

His theory was that Elijah...... had a window of opportunity to set in motion a series of events that would have led to the restoration of the Northern Kingdom of Israel........ but....... in order to do it he had to NOT RUN AWAY TO MT. HOREB???????

Could the prophet Elijah have altered history if he had NOT........

Any answer that will satisfy you will depend on your view on who controls history. Is that God or men in your belief? And in answering your particular question a consideration of your view about who decides the fate of people and nations that are directly related to God's purposes has to be part of your consideration, since those Northern tribes were Abraham's descendants, also related to the members of the Mosaic exodus, and so those people were in a covenant relationship with God. Thus their fate back then was an integral part of God's purpose.

The Bible claims only God controls these matters. See Isaiah 55:10-11 and Isaiah 46:10. And no where do I remember reading in scripture that God brought an adverse destiny on the 10 tribes or on the two tribe kingdom because of the sins of a true prophet. David did not alter the destiny of Israel by his sin with Bathsheba and his subsequent actions to murder Uriah. True through other sins that David committed he caused some Israelites to die, but that didn't alter Israel's destiny. Solomon did not remove himself as an ancestor of the Messiah by his many sins. Neither did Solomon or his father remove themselves from writing down God's words for us by their failings. God always works out his purpose in spite of failings by his servants. It's true Israelite kings did sin against God or make bad decisions for their people like Rehoboam and Jeroboam, elders and priests in the church as a collective group apostatized and led the nation,or at least a large enough number of them, into apostasy, which affected the nation's fate at times. But I don't remember reading of any single prophet of God, who was a real prophet, committing any sin that adversely affected the entire nation's history.

God is the one that causes his purposes to work out, not his servants. "I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow." 1 Corinthians 3:6. No one, not even Satan, can detour God's purposes from working out in the way God chooses to work them out. See Genesis 3:15 which was not an afterthought after sin was committed. Because if it was an after thought Isaiah 55:10-11 and Isaiah 46:10 could not be true. I am not claiming God controls people and angels and that they have no free-will; what I claim the Bible states is that God controls the outworking of his purposes despite free will so that the adverse judgments brought on Israel would not have been affected by Elijah's action, if he failed to run.

So no, biblically speaking Elijah could not have changed the condition of the Northern tribes back then if he failed to run away from Jezebel. Because it was not God's purpose that condition change at that time. See Romans 11:25-32.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So no, biblically speaking Elijah could not have changed the condition of the Northern tribes back then if he failed to run away from Jezebel.

THis is truth. But most people do not go by Biblical Standard. Tickled ears is more in vogue it seems.


As to the rest, when we know Scripture, and go along with Scripture, we agree.
The references you put in the post might all be good and right and perfect, but they don't render on my screen (nor on some other people's using a cell phone) ...
so could you (and everyone else) print out the references when they are used, unless they are already fully printed out in a post nearby or the op/ clearly ?

Could the prophet Elijah have altered history if he had NOT........

Any answer that will satisfy you will depend on your view on who controls history. Is that God or men in your belief? And in answering your particular question a consideration of your view about who decides the fate of people and nations that are directly related to God's purposes has to be part of your consideration, since those Northern tribes were Abraham's descendants, also related to the members of the Mosaic exodus, and so those people were in a covenant relationship with God. Thus their fate back then was an integral part of God's purpose.

The Bible claims only God controls these matters. See Isaiah 55:10-11 and Isaiah 46:10. And no where do I remember reading in scripture that God brought an adverse destiny on the 10 tribes because of the sins of a true prophet, or on the two tribe kingdom. David did not alter the destiny of Israel by his sin with Bathsheba and his subsequent actions to murder Uriah. True through other sins that David committed he caused some Israelites to die, but that didn't alter Israel's destiny. Solomon did not remove himself as an ancestor of the Messiah by his many sins. Neither did Solomon or his father remove themselves from writing down God's words for us by their failings. God always works out his purpose in spite of failings by his servants. It's true Israelite kings did sin against God, elders and priests in the church as a collective group apostatized and led the nation,or at least a large enough number of them, into apostasy, which affected the nation's fate at times. But I don't remember reading of any single prophet of God, who was a real prophet, committing any sin that adversely affected the entire nation's history.

God is the one that causes his purposes to work out, not his servants. "I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow." 1 Corinthians 3:6. No one, not even Satan, can detour God's purposes from working out in the way God chooses to work them out. See Genesis 3:15 which was not an afterthought after sin was committed. Because if it was an after thought Isaiah 55:10-11 and Isaiah 46:10 could not be true. I am not claiming God controls people; what I claim the Bible states is that God controls the outworking of his purposes.

So no, biblically speaking Elijah could not have changed the condition of the Northern tribes back then if he failed to run away from Jezebel. Because it was not God's purpose that condition change at that time. See Romans 11:25-32.

 

[Neogaia777]

Pastor Mark Brisebois puts forward what I think is a brilliant theory on how Elijah became so vulnerable to the threat by Queen Jezebel..........
even after an astonishing victory!



WATCHMAN ON THE WALL MINISTRIES
19 hrs ·



Could the prophet Elijah have altered history if he had NOT........

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2487539511345372

No, what made Him run was the threat that Jezebel was going to petition the gods, and his God even, that by that time tomorrow or the next day, that she would make his soul just as guilty as the false prophets he had killed or put to death... Or make his soul just like one of their's, etc...

And he (Elijah) felt that she could, even knew that she could, and it scared the hell out of him...

So, he ran, started asking God to kill him since he was no better than them, and/or his father's who had become false in times past, etc...

So, God had to comfort him and reassure him, etc... Send him back out again after He had done that, etc...

Now maybe he had become a little bit proud of puffed up a little bit maybe, saying how he was very jealous or zealous for God, etc, but that bubble was instantly popped with Jezebel's threats, etc...

God had to comfort him and reassure him, etc... That he had done no wrong and did in fact do a "very good thing", etc... That He (God) was with him, etc, and was fully with him in what he (Elijah) did, etc, and was not going to change His mind on that either, ever, etc...

God Bless!