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Featured Was it PRIDE and mocking the enemy that made Elijah vulnerable to fear?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by DennisTate, Nov 30, 2019 at 1:25 PM.

  1. NO

    9 vote(s)
    90.0%
  2. YES

    1 vote(s)
    10.0%
  3. That is a good theory that I shall research and pray about!

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    Pastor Mark Brisebois puts forward what I think is a brilliant theory on how Elijah became so vulnerable to the threat by Queen Jezebel..........
    even after an astonishing victory!



    WATCHMAN ON THE WALL MINISTRIES
    19 hrs ·

    Could the prophet Elijah have altered history if he had NOT........

     
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  2. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    More information here:
    1 Kings 18




    27 And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud; for he is a god: either he is musing, or he is gone aside, or he is on a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth and must be awaked.

    28 And they cried aloud, and cut themselves after their manner with knives and lances, till the blood gushed out upon them.

    29 And it was so, when midday was past, that they prophesied until the time of the offering of the [evening] oblation; but there was neither voice, nor any to answer, nor any that regarded.

    30 And Elijah said unto all the people, Come near unto me; and all the people came near unto him. And he repaired the altar of Jehovah that was thrown down.

    31 And Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, unto whom the word of Jehovah came, saying, Israel shall be thy name.

    32 And with the stones he built an altar in the name of Jehovah; and he made a trench about the altar, as great as would contain two measures of seed.

    33 And he put the wood in order, and cut the bullock in pieces, and laid it on the wood. And he said, Fill four jars with water, and pour it on the burnt-offering, and on the wood.

    34 And he said, Do it the second time; and they did it the second time. And he said, Do it the third time; and they did it the third time.

    35 And the water ran round about the altar; and he filled the trench also with water.

    36 And it came to pass at the time of the offering of the [evening] oblation, that Elijah the prophet came near, and said, O Jehovah, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that thou art God in Israel, and that I am thy servant, and that I have done all these things at thy word.

    37 Hear me, O Jehovah, hear me, that this people may know that thou, Jehovah, art God, and [that] thou hast turned their heart back again.

    38 Then the fire of Jehovah fell, and consumed the burnt-offering, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench.

    39 And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces: and they said, Jehovah, he is God; Jehovah, he is God.

    40 and Elijah said unto them, Take the prophets of Baal; let not one of them escape. And they took them; and Elijah brought them down to the brook Kishon, and slew them there.

    41 And Elijah said unto Ahab, Get thee up, eat and drink; for there is the sound of abundance of rain.

    42 So Ahab went up to eat and to drink. And Elijah went up to the top of Carmel; and he bowed himself down upon the earth, and put his face between his knees.

    43 And he said to his servant, Go up now, look toward the sea. And he went up, and looked, and said, There is nothing. And he said, Go again seven times.

    44 And it came to pass at the seventh time, that he said, Behold, there ariseth a cloud out of the sea, as small as a man's hand. And he said, Go up, say unto Ahab, Make ready [thy chariot], and get thee down, that the rain stop thee not.

    45 And it came to pass in a little while, that the heavens grew black with clouds and wind, and there was a great rain. And Ahab rode, and went to Jezreel: 46 and the hand of Jehovah was on Elijah; and he girded up his loins, and ran before Ahab to the entrance of Jezreel.


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    And Ahab told Jezebel all that Elijah had done, and withal how he had slain all the prophets with the sword.

    2 Then Jezebel send a messenger unto Elijah, saying, So let the gods do to me, and more also, if I make not thy life as the life of one of them by to-morrow about this time.

    3 And when he saw that, he arose, and went for his life, and came to Beer-sheba, which belongeth to Judah, and left his servant there.

    4 But he himself went a day's journey into the wilderness, and came and sat down under a juniper-tree: and he requested for himself that he might die, and said, It is enough; now, O Jehovah, take away my life; for I am not better than my fathers.

    5 And he lay down and slept under a juniper-tree; and, behold, an angel touched him, and said unto him, Arise and eat.

    6 And he looked, and, behold, there was at his head a cake baken on the coals, and a cruse of water. And he did eat and drink, and laid him down again.

    7 And the angel of Jehovah came again the second time, and touched him, and said, Arise and eat, because the journey is too great for thee.

    8 And he arose, and did eat and drink, and went in the strength of that food forty days and forty nights unto Horeb the mount of God.

    9 And he came thither unto a cave, and lodged there; and, behold, the word of Jehovah came to him, and he said unto him, What doest thou here, Elijah?

    10 And he said, I have been very jealous for Jehovah, the God of hosts; for the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword: and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.

    11 And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before Jehovah. And, behold, Jehovah passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before Jehovah; but Jehovah was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but Jehovah was not in the earthquake: 12 and after the earthquake a fire; but Jehovah was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.

    13 And it was so, when Elijah heard it, that he wrapped his face in his mantle, and went out, and stood in the entrance of the cave. And, behold, there came a voice unto him, and said, What doest thou here, Elijah?

    14 And he said, I have been very jealous for Jehovah, the God of hosts; for the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.
     
  3. Willing-heart

    Willing-heart In Christ Alone. Supporter

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    He had clay feet too.
     
  4. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

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    No, I disagree. It was not mocking the prophets of Baal that caused Elijah's issue.
     
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  5. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    Indeed he did.....
    and I have to admit that I feel that I must take this warning very, very seriously because I know that I tend to be argumentative and less than humble in many of the debates that I get going!

    I got a discussion going a few months ago about how perhaps Elijah had been in a position where he could have altered history for the better if he had not ran away from Queen Jezebel and her armies?

    Could the prophet Elijah have altered history if he had NOT........

    ... RAN AWAY from Queen Jezebel and her armies?

    In 1979 I was at the Worldwide Church of God Festival of Tabernacles / Sukkot in Charlottetown, P. E. I., ..... .and a Pastor gave a sermon on I Kings chapter 18........ and added some bonus material.

    His theory was that Elijah...... had a window of opportunity to set in motion a series of events that would have led to the restoration of the Northern Kingdom of Israel........ but....... in order to do it he had to NOT RUN AWAY TO MT. HOREB???????
     
  6. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    But could pride and mocking the enemy have been one important part of what caused the Prophet Elijah to fall into fear so quickly?

    Proverbs 16:18
    "Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall."
     
  7. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    He knew the potential harm that could come upon him from acting in his own strength and stepping beyond appointed spiritual exploits.

    From Exodus 23
    29 I will not drive them out before you in a single year; otherwise the land would become desolate and wild animals would multiply against you. 30 Little by little I will drive them out ahead of you, until you become fruitful and possess the land. 31 And I will establish your borders from the Red Sea to the Sea of the Philistines, and from the desert to the Euphrates. For I will deliver the inhabitants into your hand, and you will drive them out before you.…
     
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  8. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

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    Pride is definitely not good and opens the door to the enemy, but I don't think that was a factor here. 1 Kings 19 gives the clues. It wasn't pride, it was frustration and hope deferred.
     
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  9. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    I also suspect that the two captains of fifty and their fifty might have been known for putting the sons of the prophets to death in some pretty horrible and painful manners as well?

    A humble approach sure worked well for the third captain of fifty and his fifty????

    2 Kings 1




    9 Then [the king] sent unto him a captain of fifty with his fifty. And he went up to him: and, behold, he was sitting on the top of the hill. And he spake unto him, O man of God, the king hath said, Come down.

    10 And Elijah answered and said to the captain of fifty, If I be a man of God, let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And there came down fire from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty.

    11 And again he sent unto him another captain of fifty and his fifty. And he answered and said unto him, O man of God, thus hath the king said, Come down quickly.

    12 And Elijah answered and said unto them, If I be a man of God, let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And the fire of God came down from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty.

    13 And again he sent the captain of a third fifty with his fifty. And the third captain of fifty went up, and came and fell on his knees before Elijah, and besought him, and said unto him, O man of God, I pray thee, let my life, and the life of these fifty thy servants, be precious in thy sight.

    14 Behold, there came fire down from heaven, and consumed the two former captains of fifty with their fifties; but now let my life be precious in thy sight.

    15 And the angel of Jehovah said unto Elijah, Go down with him: be not afraid of him. And he arose, and went down with him unto the king.
     
  10. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    Was it PRIDE and mocking the enemy that made Elijah vulnerable to fear?
    God Himself gives us a clue to Elijah's absolute utter depleted-ness and needs when He Himself sends food to Elijah by way of a raven, and tells him to SLEEP. Elijah was beyond weary and he was in need of both of what God provided: nourishment and sleep.

    God didn't chastise Elijah. He MINISTERED to His weary servant.

    Did Elijah SIN when he mocked Jezebel's 800 Pagan priests, under God's own direction? Did God "chastise" His servant Elijah? Did Elijah need to repent?

    Where is it written that he sinned and/or needed to "repent"?

    There is a REASON that Elijah was taken to heaven by way of a fiery chariot and horses.

    What WAS that reason?
     
  11. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No ... Elijah suffered from a common crisis of faith. He was on top of the world on Mt. Carmel, but then came up against the retribution of the Enemy

    God saw him through this period ... and acted to restore his faith, ... and God went on to use him further ...
     
  12. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

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    I'm not sure how this is relevant to the original question.
     
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  13. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Possibly a connection >

    The third captain did use humility, and he was spared by the LORD. Humility had things work out well, for the third captain.

    But Dennis is saying that may be Elijah was lacking in humility while mocking the priests of Baal. And so, eventually, he was running instead of gunning for Jezebel.

    Elijah was not consistent, because he was not Jesus. In early scripture we see how things can go wrong because only Jesus can get things done right. The often failure of even prophets possibly is meant to show how in order for things to really go right, we would need for Jesus to come and die for us and be raised from the dead to rule us from Heaven's throne.

    And, of course, this is because Jesus is humble . . . all the time. So, the third captain's humility shows how Jesus is the way to make things work, while the failure even of Elijah shows how people not acting in humility can fail because only Jesus can have things really work well, consistently.

    So, in any case, both examples help to show how only with Jesus and humility can we have things work out really right.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2019 at 5:50 PM
  14. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    QUOTE="DennisTate, post: 74510759, member: 305212"]Indeed he did.....
    and I have to admit that I feel that I must take this warning very, very seriously because I know that I tend to be argumentative and less than humble in many of the debates that I get going!

    I got a discussion going a few months ago about how perhaps Elijah had been in a position where he could have altered history for the better if he had not ran away from Queen Jezebel and her armies?


    Could the prophet Elijah have altered history if he had NOT......
    ... RAN AWAY from Queen Jezebel and her armies?

    In 1979 I was at the Worldwide Church of God Festival of Tabernacles / Sukkot in Charlottetown, P. E. I., ..... .and a Pastor gave a sermon on I Kings chapter 18........ and added some bonus material.

    His theory was that Elijah...... had a window of opportunity to set in motion a series of events that would have led to the restoration of the Northern Kingdom of Israel........ but....... in order to do it he had to NOT RUN AWAY TO MT. HOREB???????[/QUOTE

    ========================
    No. This is false.
     
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  15. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Yes, he was a faithful prophet as God confirms.
    Study Guide for 1 Kings 19 by David Guzik
     
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  16. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

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    Elijah was bold as an ambassador of God, the captain showed humility as an ambassador of a king who was rebelling against God. There's a huge difference.
     
  17. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    Did Elijah sin?
     
  18. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Did Yahuweh Sovereign Creator SAY he sinned ?
     
  19. GOD Shines Forth!

    GOD Shines Forth! Loved. Supporter

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    I cherish Elijah's taunting of the false priests. I see that as 100% approved by GOD, having the same feel as many of His rhetorical tauntings of rebellious Israel.
     
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  20. Pavel Mosko

    Pavel Mosko Arch-Dude of the Apostolic Supporter

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    No. That was an instance of both Sarcasm and Faith. Some Christians believe that we should not use sarcasm, or that it is unspiritual etc. but there are other instances of sarcasm in the Bible. There are a few prophecies where God has a sarcastic tone when speaking to Israel, some of Jesus statements in the New Testament also can be that way etc.

    Are there any examples of sarcasm in the bible?
     
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