Was Irenaeus right?

[Biblewriter]

As the originator of the thread titled "Irenaeus on End Times" has requested that discussion in that thread be limited to what Irenaeus actually taught, this thread is for discussion of whether or not the doctrine of Irenaeus was scripturaly correct.

 

[Biblewriter]

I notice that the posters who were so anxious to comment on whether or not Irenaeus was right, in a thread where such comments were off topic, are not at all anxious to post here, where such posts are appropriate.

 

[l_ruth_]

My understanding is that Irenaeus took the position that the Parousia would occur before the thousand years - I think he was right there, however I do not think he necessarily held a consistent position on the end of the age (which I think he placed in the future) and the nature of the thousand years, which I believe he saw as a literal-historical event, though I am open to being proven wrong on any of these points.

These two links are what I have used to influence this view:
Christianity In History: The Amillennialism of Irenaeus [A.D. 120-202]
Irenaeus on Eschatology

I understand if you disagree with any or all of my assumptions!

 

[Biblewriter]

My understanding is that Irenaeus took the position that the Parousia would occur before the thousand years - I think he was right there, however I do not think he necessarily held a consistent position on the end of the age (which I think he placed in the future) and the nature of the thousand years, which I believe he saw as a literal-historical event, though I am open to being proven wrong on any of these points.

These two links are what I have used to influence this view:
Christianity In History: The Amillennialism of Irenaeus [A.D. 120-202]
Irenaeus on Eschatology

I understand if you disagree with any or all of my assumptions!

Irenaeus was very clearly premillennial. Although he never explicitly said he day of rest would last a thousand years, he clearly defined it as the seventh day, after teaching that the six days were six thousand years.

But this is a detail. Irenaeus very clearly described a future kingdom on this earth, which he described as taking place after the resurrection. Just read the 35th chapter of book five, and this will be exceedingly clear.

Incidentaly, chapter 36 sounds so exceedingly different from the rest of what Irenaeus wrote, that I have to agree with those who, like Grabe, think it was not part of the original work. It simply does not have the "flavor" of Irenaeus.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

I notice that the posters who were so anxious to comment on whether or not Irenaeus was right, in a thread where such comments were off topic, are not at all anxious to post here, where such posts are appropriate.

I wouldn't be too hasty about that. I've been browsing this site all day, and it's been a slow one.

My take on Irenaeus, apart from the fact that he has a high vowel-to-consonant ratio, is that he had the best chance, ever, of interpreting the book of Revelation correctly. Whether or not he got it right is never a thing of any certainty. I would have to ask if John, himself, could have understood his own vision (Maybe yes; maybe no). To answer that one, I'd have to know if certain elements must come to pass, like the development of technology or historical events, for the theologian to correctly interpret the prophecy.

Either way, the man deserves credit, and he ought to be taken seriously. Was he scripturally correct? Oh, I don't know. The scripture is so enigmatic that I couldn't possibly know. I only know that, at the very least, his guess was probably better than anyone's on this forum.

 

[Erik Nelson]

The "millennium" is not the "kingdom"

two different words, two different meanings

the "millennium" is the 1000-year golden age of the "kingdom", its high-water mark so to speak

Likewise, the "Parousia" of Christ revealed to be God-sent by His Name being acknowledged far and wide (Rev 19) is not (necessarily) the "Resurrection" at the end of earth time (Rev 20:9)

Irenaeus does not appear (to me) to have "telescoped" or "accordioned" all those words together into one

distinguishing all those terms may clarify his writings on this topic

 

[Erik Nelson]

Irenaeus on Eschatology

John distinctly foresaw the first ‘resurrection of the righteous’ [Luke 14:14 ] and the inheritance in the kingdom of the earth; what the prophets have prophesied concerning it harmonizes with his vision. The Lord also taught this when he promised that he would drink the cup new with his disciples in the kingdom [Matt 26:29]​

distinct First Resurrection = Rev 20:1-4 on eve of, and for, the Millennium, when the Messianic Banquet is served:

NIV Study Bible Notes
Matthew 26:29 drink it new . . . in my Father’s kingdom. At the Messianic banquet (see Lk 22:16 and note).

Luke 22:16 ...the fellowship will be consummated in the great Messianic “wedding supper” to come (Rev 19:9).​

Irenaeus is distinctly discussing the "First Resurrection" before the Millennium in this paragraph