Was Iranaeus a Pelagianist?

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Hi brothers & sisters, I’m trying to understand how Iranaeus’ statements in Adversus Haereses doesn’t contradict the canons of the councils of Carthage 418 and Orange or if perhaps they do contradict these councils and are considered as heretical statements by the church. I think my main question here is, is Iranaeus saying that God gave the mental knowledge of good and evil to all man or only to His elect and did the councils reject Pelagian’s idea that man must be capable of meeting God’s expectations in order to be rightly judged and punished by God?


1. Man has received the knowledge of good and evil. It is good to obey God, and to believe in Him, and to keep His commandment, and this is the life of man; as not to obey God is evil, and this is his death. Since God, therefore, gave [to man] such mental power (magnanimitatem) man knew both the good of obedience and the evil of disobedience, that the eye of the mind, receiving experience of both, may with judgment make choice of the better things; and that he may never become indolent or neglectful of God's command; and learning by experience that it is an evil thing which deprives him of life, that is, disobedience to God, may never attempt it at all, but that, knowing that what preserves his life, namely, obedience to God, is good, he may diligently keep it with all earnestness. Wherefore he has also had a twofold experience, possessing knowledge of both kinds, that with discipline he may make choice of the better things. But how, if he had no knowledge of the contrary, could he have had instruction in that which is good? For there is thus a surer and an undoubted comprehension of matters submitted to us than the mere surmise arising from an opinion regarding them. For just as the tongue receives experience of sweet and bitter by means of tasting, and the eye discriminates between black and white by means of vision, and the ear recognises the distinctions of sounds by hearing; so also does the mind, receiving through the experience of both the knowledgeof what is good, become more tenacious of its preservation, by acting in obedience to God: in the first place, casting away, by means of repentance, disobedience, as being something disagreeable and nauseous; and afterwards coming to understand what it really is, that it is contrary to goodness and sweetness, so that the mind may never even attempt to taste disobedience to God. But if any one do shun the knowledge of both these kinds of things, and the twofold perception of knowledge, he unawares divests himself of the character of a human being.


2. How, then, shall he be a God, who has not as yet been made a man? Or how can he be perfect who was but lately created? How, again, can he be immortal, who in his mortal nature did not obey his Maker? For it must be that you, at the outset, should hold the rank of a man, and then afterwards partake of the glory of God. For you did not make God, but God you. If, then, you are God's workmanship, await the hand of your Maker which creates everything in due time; in due time as far as you are concerned, whose creation is being carried out. Offer to Him your heart in a soft and tractable state, and preserve the form in which the Creator has fashioned you, having moisture in yourself, lest, by becoming hardened, you lose the impressions of His fingers. But by preserving the framework you shall ascend to that which is perfect, for the moist clay which is in you is hidden [there] by the workmanship of God. His hand fashioned your substance; He will cover you over [too] within and without with pure gold and silver, and He will adorn you to such a degree, that even the King Himself shall have pleasure in your beauty. But if you, being obstinately hardened, reject the operation of His skill, and show yourself ungrateful towards Him, because you were created a [mere] man, by becoming thus ungrateful to God, you have at once lost both His workmanship and life. For creation is an attribute of the goodness of God but to be created is that of human nature. If then, you shall deliver up to Him what is yours, that is, faith towards Him and subjection, you shall receive His handiwork, and shall be a perfect work of God.


3. If, however, you will not believe in Him, and will flee from His hands, the cause of imperfection shall be in you who did not obey, but not in Him who called [you]. For He commissioned [messengers] to call people to the marriage, but they who did not obey Him deprived themselves of the royal supper. Matthew 22:3, etc. The skill of God, therefore, is not defective, for He has power of the stones to raise up children to Abraham; Matthew 3:9but the man who does not obtain it is the causeto himself of his own imperfection. Nor, [in like manner], does the light fail because of those who have blinded themselves; but while it remains the same as ever, those who are [thus] blinded are involved in darkness through their own fault. The light does never enslave any one by necessity; nor, again, does God exercise compulsion upon any one unwilling to accept the exercise of His skill. Those persons, therefore, who have apostatized from the light given by the Father, and transgressed the law of liberty, have done so through their own fault, since they have been created free agents, and possessed of power over themselves.


4. But God, foreknowing all things, prepared fit habitations for both, kindly conferring that light which they desire on those who seek after the light of incorruption, and resort to it; but for the despisers and mockers who avoid and turn themselves away from this light, and who do, as it were, blind themselves, He has prepared darkness suitable to personswho oppose the light, and He has inflicted an appropriate punishment upon those who try to avoid being subject to Him. Submission to God is eternal rest, so that they who shun the light have a place worthy of their flight; and those who fly from eternal rest, have a habitation in accordance with their fleeing. Now, since all good things are with God, they who by their own determination fly from God, do defraud themselves of all good things; and having been [thus] defrauded of all good things with respect to God, they shall consequently fall under the just judgment of God. For those persons who shun rest shall justly incur punishment, and those who avoid the light shall justly dwell in darkness. For as in the case of this temporal light, those who shun it do deliver themselves over to darkness, so that they do themselves become the cause to themselves that they are destitute of light, and do inhabit darkness; and, as I have already observed, the light is not the cause of such an [unhappy] condition of existence to them; so those who fly from the eternal light of God, which contains in itself all good things, are themselves the cause to themselves of their inhabiting eternal darkness, destitute of all goodthings, having become to themselves the cause of [their consignment to] an abode of that nature.

St Iranaeus 170AD Adversus Haereses Book 4 Chapter 39
 

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How would St. Irenaeus be a Pelagian if Pelagius was born 150 years after Irenaeus?

What I meant was did Iranaeus teach the same heresies that Pelagian taught? The word Pelagianist refers to the ideas of Pelagian not necessarily the man himself.
 
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Pelagianism is the belief that man has the full ability to attain to everything necessary for salvation through his own natural power apart from the grace of God. Irenaeus does not propose that.

Yes that’s is what I thought as well. My biggest concern was Canon IV from Carthage 418. Iranaeus appears to contradict this statement unless either he is only referring to man whom is elected by God or that God has bestowed this grace of knowledge upon all man.

  • Canon V: Without grace of God we can do no good thing.
 
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Justin-H.S.

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What meant was did Iranaeus teach the same heresies that Pelagian taught? The word Pelagianist refers to the ideas of Pelagian not necessarily the man himself.

If he was he wouldn't be canonized a saint, and he would've called it the "Rule of Works," no?
 
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If he was he wouldn't be canonized a saint, and he would've called it the "Rule of Works," no?

I wish this guy would’ve quoted some of Iranaeus’ writings. He gives a summary instead of actual quotes. Thanks for your help but this still didn’t answer my question. These are what I’m trying to reconcile together.

Iranaeus Adversus Haereses Book 4 Chapter 39

1. Man has received the knowledge of good and evil. It is good to obey God, and to believe in Him, and to keep His commandment, and this is the life of man; as not to obey God is evil, and this is his death. Since God, therefore, gave [to man] such mental power (magnanimitatem) man knew both the good of obedience and the evil of disobedience, that the eye of the mind, receiving experience of both, may with judgment make choice of the better things;


Carthage 418 Canon V Without grace of God we can do no good thing.
 
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Justin-H.S.

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The eye of the mind is the nous. An obedient nous comes from faith in God, the nous then moves the body to do good works. It's not really that difficult to understand. There is no dichotomy between faith and works in Orthodoxy.

I don't see anything Pelagian about what you posted. It's Orthodox teaching.
 
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The eye of the mind is the nous. An obedient nous comes from faith in God, the nous then moves the body to do good works. It's not really that difficult to understand. There is no dichotomy between faith and works in Orthodoxy.

I don't see anything Pelagian about what you posted. It's Orthodox teaching.

But my question is, is Iranaeus referring to all man or only those who are elected by God? He appears to be referring to all man which would include men who have not received grace. If he is referring to all men then he is saying that those who have not received grace can do good which would be contradictory to canon V at Carthage 418.
 
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ArmyMatt

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I wish this guy would’ve quoted some of Iranaeus’ writings. He gives a summary instead of actual quotes. Thanks for your help but this still didn’t answer my question. These are what I’m trying to reconcile together.

Iranaeus Adversus Haereses Book 4 Chapter 39

1. Man has received the knowledge of good and evil. It is good to obey God, and to believe in Him, and to keep His commandment, and this is the life of man; as not to obey God is evil, and this is his death. Since God, therefore, gave [to man] such mental power (magnanimitatem) man knew both the good of obedience and the evil of disobedience, that the eye of the mind, receiving experience of both, may with judgment make choice of the better things;


Carthage 418 Canon V Without grace of God we can do no good thing.

God gave the mental power to man by grace.
 
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The eye of the mind is the nous. An obedient nous comes from faith in God, the nous then moves the body to do good works. It's not really that difficult to understand. There is no dichotomy between faith and works in Orthodoxy.

I don't see anything Pelagian about what you posted. It's Orthodox teaching.

I also agree that there’s no dichotomy between faith and works. From what I see in the definition of the Greek words works are implied in the definitions of pistis, pistos, and pisteuo. I think a better English translation for these words could be devotion instead of faith because the English word faith doesn’t include these qualities of faithfulness, trustworthiness, loyalty, and fidelity that the Greek words imply.
 
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See I believe Pelagian had a good point that man cannot be justly held accountable for failing to meet God’s expectations if he is incapable of complying and from what I see in Adversus Haereses Iranaeus is saying that man is capable of complying with God’s expectations because God has enabled man to do so. I agree with all of this, it’s the decision of the council in canon V that I’m trying to learn about and how what Iranaeus said can compliment the council’s ruling on this matter.
 
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Justin-H.S.

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But my question is, is Iranaeus referring to all man or only those who are elected by God? He appears to be referring to all man which would include men who have not received grace. If he is referring to all men then he is saying that those who have not received grace can do good which would be contradictory to canon V at Carthage 418.

There are many contingencies here that aren't being factored in.

Can nihilists do good? Yes.

Who do they do good for? Why do they do good? For self-gain, usually.

God is everywhere present and fills ALL things.

Can a broken clock be right? Sometimes, it is.
 
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BNR32FAN

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There are many contingencies here that aren't being factored in.

Can nihilists do good? Yes.

Who do they do good for? Why do they do good?

God is everywhere present and fills ALL things.

Can a broken clock be right? Sometimes, it is.

well I’m mostly referring to repentance. It seems that is what Iranaeus is referring to in the statements I quoted. I’m often labeled as a Pelagianist by Calvinists because I’m a synergist. I believe synergism is what the early church taught. Would you agree?
 
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Justin-H.S.

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well I’m mostly referring to repentance. It seems that is what Iranaeus is referring to in the statements I quoted. I’m often labeled as a Pelagianist by Calvinists because I’m a synergist. I believe synergism is what the early church taught. Would you agree?

I'd agree, and because your handle takes me back to my high school days in Japan:


(psssst: Calvinism is a heresy)
 
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