Was Gods punishing the Jews because in the holocaust because they killed? Jesus

mmksparbud

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Those articles are all after the war with Germany ended. Also, the scope of those articles is much broader than the Holocaust.

Do not understand the concept of "during"? You have no articles, not even fake articles, showing anyone knew about the holocaust during the war.


Enjoy yourself.

Germany - Newspapers - World War II Archives of Wartime Publications
Holocaust & Nazi Attrocities - Newspapers - RareNewspapers.com
Newspapers in Nazi Germany - History Learning Site
Documenting the Holocaust: German Newspaper Gives Auschwitz Blueprints to Israelis - SPIEGEL ONLINE - International
Daily Telegraph's holocaust article in 1942 that went unheralded

Of course, if you really want to see for yourself---you can go there

Berlin Holocaust | GetYourGuide
 
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Barney

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I figured you might quibble about the dates. Call it a hunch.

Daily Telegraph's holocaust article in 1942 that went unheralded

And, according to what I've been able to find, it appears that in 1942, Britain and The USA seemed to be at war with Nazi Germany.

But I'm sure you'll find some arcane way to say this doesn't count. Holocaust deniers usually do when confronted with fact.

Your link says the article went "unheralded" which supports what I said about people not knowing anything about the holocaust during WWII.

Finally, something of substance, even if just based on the word of one polish Jew who escaped to Britain (not exactly a highly credible source, which may account for it being "unheralded"). I know enough about history to know that Germany totally wrecked Poland in WWII. Even if Hitler hadn't targeted Jews, hundreds of thousands of Jews could still have died in Poland. I've already pointed out that nazi German persecuted Jews, and so, how many "extra" Jews who died in Poland were victims of anti-judaic German bias vs. a deliberate holocaust. For example, if a German soldier is going to shoot one of two polish people, a Jew or non-Jew, he's going to kill someone even without plotting a holocaust. If he chooses the Jew, just because he dislikes the Jew more, it would still be without plotting a deliberate holocaust. Back to perspective, 27 million citizens of the USSR killed in WWII, without any plotted holocaust.

Okay, thousands of articles during the alleged presidency of FDR vs One article during the alleged Holocaust.
 
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Blood Bought 1953

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Except they didn't. The Romans killed Jesus. The Gospels themselves describe a tiny group of Jewish political leaders who believed it expedient to deliver Jesus over to the Romans to spare Roman reprisal (John 11:50). Caiaphas, the high priest and a Saducee, didn't believe in messiahs at all because messianism wasn't part of Sadducean theology, it was a Pharisaical teaching; and Caiaphas and other important Jewish aristocrats saw working with the Romans and not rocking the boat important to Jewish survival in Roman occupied Judea. Jesus wasn't the first time someone claimed to be the messiah, when Jesus was still young Judas the Galilean began a militant messianic movement claiming himself as messiah, the Roman response was brutal. Pilate himself was notorious for his brutality, his demeanor described in the Gospels is out of character for what virtually all other sources give about him which has led some to find it difficult for how to reconcile.

So, no, "the Jews" did not kill Jesus. Our Creeds are emphatic, that our Lord Jesus Christ "suffered under Pontius Pilate".

-CryptoLutheran

God killed Jesus and it pleasured Him to do so....without the shed blood of His Son there would be NO forgiveness of sins for any of us...had God not fulfilled this plan that was spoken of as far back as Adam and Eve’s ejection from the Garden,we would ALL be doomed to an eternity in Hell.....that is why God was pleased.....He was pleased for OUR sakes.....the Romans and the Jews were merely the unwitting actors in God’s Plan.....it could have been cowboys and Indians who carried out this
Plan had God deemedit so.....It was ME who put Jesus on the cross.......how about you?
 
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A71

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Further to my previous comments; not only did the Catholic Church found the Jesuits in 1540, Martin Luther wrote his (in)famous anti-Jewish tract in 1543.
So really the Jews faced a double-barrelled shotgun from 'the Church' so to speak, post 1540.

The more I study the Bible, the less inclined I am to make bold statements on the Jews anymore.

My core belief is that anybody who wilfully rejects Christ is on a hiding to nothing. The Jews of course were supposed to accept Christ. Inevitably, Christian Europe has had immense difficulty assimilating the Jews, as their belief system is so contrary to ours. However, the Church also has a simple mandate, to extend mercy to the Jews.

Clearly our eyes now are on Jerusalem, as we progress to 2030. If 1540-2030 in any way mirrors the first 490 year punishment inflicted on the Jews by God, which culminated in the enormous bloodbath of AD67-73, then the years 2023-2030 could also be significant. I am not a believer in repeating prophecy...but patterns are patterns!
 
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Emmy

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Dear allanstrange. God is Love, and God does not punish us, we do it ourselves. Jesus died that we might live, and now Jesus will help us when ever we ask for help. In Matthew 22: Jesus tells us: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: love thy neighbour as thyself." In verse 40 we are told: On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. God is LOVE, and God wants loving sons and daughters. Give up all selfish desires and unloving behaviour. Jesus died for us, now we can live for God, and our neighbour Treat all we know and all we meet, treat them as we would love to be treated.
The Bible tells us: give up all selfish desires, and start loving and caring. Love is very catching, and love will overcome all wrong and selfish living. Jesus died that we might live, and Jesus will lead us back to God. It is not too hard, for us. Love is catching. Let us try to follow God`s Commandment, to LOVE and CARE. Jesus will lead us back to God, where we be the men and women which God wants. I say this with love, allanstrange. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.
 
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Barney

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Inevitably, Christian Europe has had immense difficulty assimilating the Jews, as their belief system is so contrary to ours. However, the Church also has a simple mandate, to extend mercy to the Jews.

The Talmudic religion is very hostile to everyone, so they're not going to assimilate well with anyone. And, I don't know anything of that "simple mandate." We owe the Jews nothing but the mercy of a free society. We don't owe it to them an Atheistic society (Atheism is the religion Jews want gentiles to follow. Jews don't want to convert "dogs" to their religion.)
 
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majj27

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Yep, called it!

Your link says the article went "unheralded" which supports what I said about people not knowing anything about the holocaust during WWII.

Actually, you said:

"You can't point to a single news article during WWII that shows there was a Holocaust."

I have done so.

Finally, something of substance, even if just based on the word of one polish Jew who escaped to Britain (not exactly a highly credible source, which may account for it being "unheralded"). I know enough about history to know that Germany totally wrecked Poland in WWII. Even if Hitler hadn't targeted Jews, hundreds of thousands of Jews could still have died in Poland. I've already pointed out that nazi German persecuted Jews, and so, how many "extra" Jews who died in Poland were victims of anti-judaic German bias vs. a deliberate holocaust. For example, if a German soldier is going to shoot one of two polish people, a Jew or non-Jew, he's going to kill someone even without plotting a holocaust. If he chooses the Jew, just because he dislikes the Jew more, it would still be without plotting a deliberate holocaust.

I would simply say that having concentration camps set up for the specific purpose of enslaving and eventually mass-murdering Jews and other "undesirables" (but mostly Jews) is a level of genocidal thinking above and beyond shooting random Poles in a field somewhere.

Because that's what happened.

Back to perspective, 27 million citizens of the USSR killed in WWII, without any plotted holocaust.

The evil actions of Josef Stalin are completely tangential and unrelated to the evils of Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Regime. One does not disprove the other. It's quite possible to have TWO tyrannical, murdering jerkfaces in power in different countries a the same time.

Okay, thousands of articles during the alleged presidency of FDR vs One article during the alleged Holocaust.

You said I couldn't produce one. I've produced many, including one from 1942 and plenty from 1944 and 1945. You asked where this information was. We've told you several places to find it.

Where are you getting YOUR information from? Because so far all you've done is toss up hand-wavy conspiracy-theory style "nuh-uh!".
 
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AlexDTX

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If something is true, criticism is met with proof, not with people playing dumb. Use Google, if you want to know where. And, Political Correctness accomplishes the same thing in America, where Political Correctness has force.
The burden of proof lies with the one making the statement.
 
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AlexDTX

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The proof lies on the one making the claim that something happened. But, before you prove it, how about you establish relevancy?
You made the claim of censorship. I am not clear as to what you mean. I have asked you to clarify your statement. Are you saying there was censorship regarding the Holocaust by the Germans or censorship by the Jews?
 
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elliott95

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The Talmudic religion is very hostile to everyone, so they're not going to assimilate well with anyone. And, I don't know anything of that "simple mandate." We owe the Jews nothing but the mercy of a free society. We don't owe it to them an Atheistic society (Atheism is the religion Jews want gentiles to follow. Jews don't want to convert "dogs" to their religion.)
You talk like the Jews as if they were The Jew, a trans-personal conciousness, that works as a unit.
The standard ethnic joke that Jews often make of themselves is that if you put any three Jews in a room, they will have four different opinions on any topic.
I think though that we do owe each other, Jews included, is the benefit of a free society.
On that point, we do agree.
 
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ViaCrucis

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The Talmudic religion is very hostile to everyone, so they're not going to assimilate well with anyone. And, I don't know anything of that "simple mandate." We owe the Jews nothing but the mercy of a free society. We don't owe it to them an Atheistic society (Atheism is the religion Jews want gentiles to follow. Jews don't want to convert "dogs" to their religion.)

I am shocked, shocked I say, that someone who denies the holocaust is also willing to spew antisemitic garbage such as this. This is my shocked face. :neutral:

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Barney

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I am shocked, shocked I say, that someone who denies the holocaust is also willing to spew antisemitic garbage such as this. This is my shocked face. :neutral:

-CryptoLutheran

You think Jews don't use the Talmud and that they are always busy knocking on doors looking for converts.
 
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ViaCrucis

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You think Jews don't use the Talmud and that they are always busy knocking on doors looking for converts.

Nope. I'm quite aware that Jews (other than Karaites) use the Talmud and aren't looking for converts. I just don't think that you know what you're talking about when you talk about the Talmud, and that you are speaking in total ignorance when you say that atheism is the "religion" Jews preach; Judaism teaches that only Jews are supposed to practice Judaism, and that the covenant wasn't for non-Jews (that's not just Jewish teaching, it is also biblical, both Old Testament and New Testament, Deuteronomy 5:1-3, Psalm 147:19-20, Acts 15:1-29). Jewish teaching is that the righteous of all nations will have a place in the Age to Come and the Resurrection, not just Jews; and that is not the promotion of "atheism"; but it does mean that according to Judaism non-Jews who abide by basic righteous mitzvot--no idolatry, no adultery, no murder, etc--are counted among the righteous in the Resurrection. There's no need for Jews to proselytize, because Judaism has never been a religion of everyone, because the covenant God established on Horeb wasn't for everyone, it was for the Children of Jacob. When one becomes a Jew, one enters into that covenant; but there is no requirement for anyone to do so.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ralliann

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Ws the holocaust Gods punishment of the Jews??

Many say that because of the Jews rejecting Jesus and insist he be crucified that God punished them in the Holocaust (I do not believe this but welcome comments)

Just as many gentiles died in Hitler's death camps, mainly Christians as Jews did, so then God was killing gentiles and not just Jews explain that. Explain that Tony

Records show that at least of the six million Jewish people murdered in the death camps of which another 7 million of them were gentiles

I believe that there is a lack of understanding of Jesus' death. He died for our sins, including that of the Jewish people. In fact, the Jews are his special people the people of the Book so why on earth would God sit back and allow all of his beloved people to be murdered by a beast like Hitler Without Jesus's death there would be no resurrection. Without his death, there's no new covenant. It doesn't matter who God used to facilitate Jesus' death. It was ordained and to say that God then punishes the people he ordained to kill Jesus in the most horrific way is to give God the character of Satan and not that of a holy merciful Almighty God

Look at it this way, if you murder someone and 2000 years later all your ancestors, who know nothing about you or how you lived your life, are put to death in a most hideous way possible, for something you did 2000 years ago, is that just and fair?

Satan was not created evil, in Ezekiel, God says of him you were perfect in all your ways until sin was found in you.

You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.


Why did God have to wait until 1945 years almost 2000 years after Jesus death on the cross, and only then punish the Jews woman, such as little children, babies, men old men and old woman, who knew nothing about Jesus and could not be held accountable for a sin done by their ancestors 2000 years ago.

Is that the just God of the Bible, no it is more like Satan than God to murder people for no reason at all? A just God would have killed those living at the time or just after the time, who knew about Jesus and their responsibility for his crucifixion

Well then God had it wrong seeing as Christ was crucified by the Romans. Not to mentioned according to the Bible Christ's sole purpose on Earth was to live a sin free life and die for the sins of all mankind so it seems sort of silly to punish anyone for what was supposed to happen

Actually, both the Jews and Romans are responsible for the crucifixion of Christ. You can't just put the blame on one party. The Romans were the one to physically perform the acts of abuse on Christ, but devout followers of Judaism had a heavy influence on Christ's death

The fact is that God sent Jesus to die for humanities sins so that they through his spilled Blood they could be forgiven their sins. Makes no sense for him to have sent punishment upon the Jews when God himself sent Christ here to die for all. We are all equally guilty of Jesus’s death on the cross, 50% gentile namely the Romans and the other 505 Jews.

Neither Jews nor Christian ideals produced the Holocaust. Those murders were generated by the same perversion of human nature that the Holy Scriptures depict, beginning in the Book of Genesis. Cain turned on his own brother and became the first murderer.

And while the Jewish people have been singled out more often for genocide than any other people, they are by no means the only group of people to be methodically murdered. Consider the “ethnic cleansing,” the systematic rape and murder of the Bosnian people perpetrated in the 1990s. No, genocide neither began nor ended with Hitler and the Jewish people.

However, if Jesus' and his disciples' claims are true, that he came to die for the wrongdoing of all humanity both Jews and Gentiles Then all of us have a part in the death of Jesus, collectively and individually. Not a message most of us want to hear, but one that was articulated even before the time of Jesus, by the prophet Isaiah, who wrote of one who would be ". “pierced through for our transgressions” “crushed for our iniquities” the chastening for our well-being fell upon Him and by His scourging we are healed" (Isaiah 53:5).

Any comments
I agree Jesus died to save Jews as well as Gentiles. But Israel is not like the other nations. They are judged by the law, Gentiles die apart from the law...There is the difference IMO.
John a prophet sent from God to preach the baptism of repentance, for remission of sin. God sent prophets to Israel and Judah in the past, because his wrath was going to fall upon them. So salvation preached to Jew's was an escape from the coming wrath of God to them.
Mt 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Lu 3:7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Jesus preached the destruction of the temple....So 70 ad is significant in that.
The rulers were a wicked and perverse generation....the people had already went out and repented, and accepted John as a prophet. But the people themselves were not privy to all that went on.
It was a race....to save them from two false Messiahs. Simon ben Giora 70 AD, and Simon bar Kochba...60 years later..
Ac 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
God allowed wicked men, to punish them. However they did these things because they are wicked.... You can read about the prophesied wrath in the law. Beginning with these...Deut. 28:15 and Lev 26:14
But....God will remember his covenant with their father Abraham, I hope it is soon.....
 
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com7fy8

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Why do you blame the Romans when the Bible only blames the Jews?
They were in on it; the Bible says they did what they did; so the Bible does blame them. Even if Pontius Pilate was going along with the Jews, he was part of it.

Adam went along with Eve; she was to blame for all she did, but Adam was guilty, also. Each was to blame for what part each one took in it.

But yes in Acts Peter directly blames the Jews. But he is talking to the Jews.

And, like I say, not all Jews were in on it. Peter was a Jew. And though Paul was a Jew and had persecuted the church, Paul a Jew changed. Jews are the ones who have started the ministry of salvation, and they have given us New Testament scriptures. So, if Peter told Jews they crucified Jesus, he means the ones he is talking about, not all.
 
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com7fy8

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The average Jew likely mourned him as just another in a long line of failed messiahs.
There were women who were weeping. Jews who were weeping were not crucifying Jesus.

To suggest that God was paying back the Jews for the death of Jesus is a rather pathetic way to justify almost 2000 years of Christian persecution of the Jews.
If God does punish or bring vengeance on anyone, it is in His control to hurt only those who are disobeying Him. And not all Jews were guilty of the torture and murder of Jesus.

But if Jews refuse Jesus, now, they can get into various very hard consequences because of not obeying how our Father desires to care for us. And the consequences, because they are in Satan's kingdom, can be very unfair.
 
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Anguspure

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They were in on it; the Bible says they did what they did; so the Bible does blame them. Even if Pontius Pilate was going along with the Jews, he was part of it.

Adam went along with Eve; she was to blame for all she did, but Adam was guilty, also. Each was to blame for what part each one took in it.

But yes in Acts Peter directly blames the Jews. But he is talking to the Jews.

And, like I say, not all Jews were in on it. Peter was a Jew. And though Paul was a Jew and had persecuted the church, Paul a Jew changed. Jews are the ones who have started the ministry of salvation, and they have given us New Testament scriptures. So, if Peter told Jews they crucified Jesus, he means the ones he is talking about, not all.
Why do you blame anyone but yourself? Both you and I are to blame for the crucifixion of the Perfect One, or at least I am any way.
Blame me, by all means, but don't blame the ones who Jesus asked His Father to forgive, for they are forgiven.
 
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A71

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Not really Anguspure.
Jesus was forgiving the Romans, who were committing a sin of ignorance (Leviticus 4, 5). Read it carefully.

33 And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

It was the Roman soldiers who carried out the execution and who drew lots for Jesus' clothes.

And the idea that you and I killed Jesus, where does this come from? It seems nonsensical.

It is true though that Jesus forgave the Jews for having him put to death, but they were not forgiven for rejecting him as Christ.
 
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Barney

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They were in on it; the Bible says they did what they did; so the Bible does blame them. Even if Pontius Pilate was going along with the Jews, he was part of it.

Saying Pilate went along with it is like saying the Jews went along with the Holocaust. You should the account, sometime.

But yes in Acts Peter directly blames the Jews. But he is talking to the Jews.

The Bible only blames Jews, and blames Jews over and over. You should read it, sometime. Besides, why would Peter let the Romans off the hook just because his audience was Jewish? Blaming the Romans would help rally the Jews to Peter's side.

And, like I say, not all Jews were in on it. Peter was a Jew. And though Paul was a Jew and had persecuted the church, Paul a Jew changed. Jews are the ones who have started the ministry of salvation, and they have given us New Testament scriptures. So, if Peter told Jews they crucified Jesus, he means the ones he is talking about, not all.

Christians gave us the NT scripture, even if some of them were ex-Jews. The man who wrote the largest portion of the NT was never a Jew. The books of the NT are addressed to Christians. Most of all, the good Jews in the Bible were not of the devil as are the bad Jews with whom you want to equate Jesus with. Shame.
 
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