Was God behind the Reformation?

[I <3 Abraham]

Whether the Roman see separated from the east or vice versa is the topic of another discussion. The fundamental thing is that neither the East nor the West denied the orthodoxy of the Ecumenical Councils nor introduced new doctrines or practices that conflicts with the teaching of the apostles as did the Reformers introducing the elimination of valid clergy, forbiding or perverting the Eucharist. Nor did they attempt to remove Scripture that disagreed with their doctrines like the Protestants. According to the Council of Dort they even changed the Gospel to mean that Christ did not die for all men but just the elect without the element of free will.

In Christ
Fr. Joseph

Please see my last post about the ecumenism of Paul and the testimony of the holy spirit. But once again, all of those people, all the ones whose acts you disagree with, they are all dead. Every single one without exception is dead and buried and gone to meet our maker. What matters to me today is the life I lead, everyone has got to try really hard if they want to bear good fruit.

Another way of putting it is that you'll never see good fruit if you are looking at the roots.

 

[IgnatiusOfAntioch]

No, not God. It was just some men establishing their own doctrines.

 

[cristoiglesia]

Of Course God inspired Luther to write 95 theses, the Catholic Church was corrupting his name, that is a fact.

In what way?

 

[cristoiglesia]

Please see my last post about the ecumenism of Paul and the testimony of the holy spirit. But once again, all of those people, all the ones whose acts you disagree with, they are all dead. Every single one without exception is dead and buried and gone to meet our maker. What matters to me today is the life I lead, everyone has got to try really hard if they want to bear good fruit.

Another way of putting it is that you'll never see good fruit if you are looking at the roots.

Unless, of course you are speaking of potatoes or peanuts.

In Christ,
Fr. Joseph

 

[JimfromOhio]

When I first read Luther's 95 theses, I finally understood WHY reformation happened.

 

[I <3 Abraham]

Unless, of course you are speaking of potatoes or peanuts.

In Christ,
Fr. Joseph

It was just a little snippet, but I think it got my point across.

 

[cristoiglesia]

When I first read Luther's 95 theses, I finally understood WHY reformation happened.

That is good Jim but one must be careful and not assume things like the Church was guilty of some or all of the topics that Luther proposed to debate. He simply, for the most part felt that the Church would benefit from such a discussioon.

In Christ
Fr. Joseph

 

[cristoiglesia]

It was just a little snippet, but I think it got my point across.

I did and I agree.

In Christ
Fr. Joseph

 

[Woodsy]

Well, if I have to answer -

I believe it was a movement devised by men and guided by a spirit of dissent.
Were there changes that needed to be made? Yup.
Were the changes addressed constructively or destructively? I believe that the denominational chaos which we see today is ultimately harmful, especially since I believe that the initial concerns of the reformers could have been addressed in a more constructive manner.

Respectfully,
Matthew

 

[Asinner]

The true answer is that it was Luther who was behind the Reformation.

[SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE]

• [SIZE=-1]Who would have wanted to begin preaching, had we known beforehand that so much disaster, riotousness, scandal, sacrilege, ingratitude [i.e., towards himself], and wickedness were to follow. But now . . . we have to pay for it.[/SIZE]
  [SIZE=-1](Works, Erlangen, 50,74; in 1538)[/SIZE]
  [SIZE=-1]I have well nigh given up all hope for Germany, for . . . wickedness and roguery are reigning everywhere . . . and added to all else contempt of the Word.[/SIZE]
  [SIZE=-1](Letter to Anton Lauterbach, November 1541)[/SIZE]

taken from here: http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ269.HTM

 

[KEPLER]

[SIZE=-1]Even so, despite frequent bouts of self-condemnation, he did not renounce his supposed absolute certainty concerning the "Gospel" which he felt he had restored from the ashes.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Perhaps the ultimate tragic contradiction in Luther is his simultaneous assertion of private judgment over against Church Tradition, and denial of the same right to his fellow Protestant sectarians, consigning all of them to damnation for not accepting his "clear" dogmatic statements of the truths of Christianity. In so doing, he had absurdly evolved full circle from "Here I stand - - I can do no other" to "This I declare - - you can believe no other," and made himself an intolerant autocrat unequaled by any other major and important figure in Church history (with the possible exception of Calvin). He sanctioned censorship of non-Lutheran works, forcible suppression of the Mass, and capital punishment for wide-ranging theological errors determined by his magisterium of one (e.g., the Anabaptists).[/SIZE]


taken from here: http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ269.HTM

1) A highly dubious source of information.
2) A very questionable interpretation of events.
3) Pot calling the kettle black.

Kepler

 

[nephilimiyr]

1) A highly dubious source of information.
2) A very questionable interpretation of events.
3) Pot calling the kettle black.

Kepler

LOL, what would ever give you those ideas?

Maybe it was after seeing this picture of Martin Luther you began to question?

 

[cristoiglesia]

LOL, what would ever give you those ideas?

Maybe it was after seeing this picture of Martin Luther you began to question?

LOL!!! Have you been saving that picture for a time like this?

In Christ
Fr. Joseph

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Did Paul view the Gnostics and the Judaizers as part of his church? They believed in Christ, but held views that Paul felt were heretical.

I'm lost to know what this has to do with the subject at hand...

If you want to discuss who is and is not a Christian, that seems like a different topic for a different thread and day.

MY point was that Christianity is a religion, not a political institutional denomination or legal entity; that we are Christians by virtue of our faith in Christ not our legal status in an institution. I don't expect or ask any Catholics to agree with me on that.

I did not argue that nonchristians are Christians or that nonchristians are a part of His church.


MY $0.01...


Pax.


- Josiah



.

 

[Asinner]

1) A highly dubious source of information.
2) A very questionable interpretation of events.
3) Pot calling the kettle black.

Kepler

Certainly the protestants view Luther differently than Catholics. I referenced his quotes because they back the claim I stated earlier that he felt sad over the schisms. Do you dispute the quotes?

God Bless

 

[GraceInHim]

23But the one who received the seed that fell on good soil is the man who hears the word and understands it. He produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown." The Parable of the Weeds

24Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away.

27"The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'

28" 'An enemy did this,' he replied.
"The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?'
29" 'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.' "

 

[jwill03189]

LOL, what would ever give you those ideas?

Maybe it was after seeing this picture of Martin Luther you began to question?

LOL, thats great. His eyebrows were moving too . (No pic b/c not enough posts .)

 

[jwill03189]

I'm lost to know what this has to do with the subject at hand...

If you want to discuss who is and is not a Christian, that seems like a different topic for a different thread and day.

MY point was that Christianity is a religion, not a political institutional denomination or legal entity; that we are Christians by virtue of our faith in Christ not our legal status in an institution. I don't expect or ask any Catholics to agree with me on that.

I did not argue that nonchristians are Christians or that nonchristians are a part of His church.


MY $0.01...


Pax.


- Josiah



.

Very true .

 

[gal4God]

probley.if it wasn't 4 Luther we would all be cathoics, and cathoic tradions don't suit every1. i think its coolthat we can Worship God in the way we find more meaningfull.

 

[nephilimiyr]

LOL!!! Have you been saving that picture for a time like this?

In Christ
Fr. Joseph

LOL, no, I visited the site and copied the pic to my computer then downloaded it to the hotlink site that I have.

Boy does he look angry!