Was Enoch the first scribe?

Ishraqiyun · Apr 11, 2011

"And in these times [contemperary with Moses] also lived Mercury, Atlas's grandchild, born of Maia his daughter: the story is common. He was a perfect artist in many good inventions, and is therefore believed (at least men desired he should be believed) to be a deity... for the good that they did mankind in manner of civility and other necessaries to human estate, were rewarded with divine honors."
Saint Augustine.

yeshuasavedme · Apr 23, 2011

razeontherock said:
The hard sayings of Christ are quoting Enoch. While I'm still not ready to consider it as Canon, (yet I'm forced to ask myself why not if Christ resorted to quoting it) as there are sections that are questionable and most of it is unusable, I think there can be no doubt it is inspired.

I wouldn't argue Enoch was the first to write EVER, but I do think he taught our species a lot of new things, and I'd be surprised if he weren't literate.

Solely as an aside for those interested:

there are traditions that state Enoch's writings came off the Ark with Noah, were passed down through Shem, and this is the household Abraham was raised in.

Abram lived with Noah and Shem for 39 years, hiding from Nimrod, who wanted him dead from the time of his birth, and there, he learned YHWH's ways.
This information is in the real Book of Jasher Book of Jasher Bible - SpeedBible by johnhurt.com.

The real book of Jasher correlates with the Tenach and NT.

Also, in the Dead Sea Scrolls Genesis Apocryphon, Abraham testified that he read to the wise men of Pharaoh [when they brought Sarah back to him], from the book of Enoch, when they asked him to teach them "wisdom, values, and truth".

But after those five years, three men who were princes of Egypt [came ] of Pharaoh Zoa[n] about my affairs and about my wife, and they presented [me numerous gifts and aske]d m[e to teach them] values, wisdom, and truth. So I read in their presence the [book of] the words of [En]och [ ]
Translation of 1Q Genesis Apocryphon (1QapGen)

Jesus used Enoch's writings as sacred Scripture, and His own doctrinal teachings are filled with that which is first written in Enoch.

Enoch wrote this:

6I have sworn unto you, ye sinners, by the Holy Great One,
That all your evil deeds are revealed in the heavens,
And that none of your deeds of oppression are covered and hidden. 7And do not think in your spirit nor say in your heart that ye do not know and that ye do not see that every sin is every day recorded in heaven in the presence of the Most High.
8From henceforth ye know that all your oppression wherewith ye oppress is written down every day till the day of your judgement.

and this:

Companions with Angels
104 I swear unto you, that in heaven the angels remember you for good before the glory of the Great One: and your names are written before the glory of the Great One. 2Be hopeful; for aforetime ye were put to shame through ill and affliction; but now ye shall shine as the lights of heaven, ye shall shine and ye shall be seen, and the portals of heaven shall be opened to you.
3And in your cry, cry for judgement, and it shall appear to you; for all your tribulation shall be visited on the rulers, and on all who helped those who plundered you.
4Be hopeful, and cast not away your hope; for ye shall have great joy as the angels of heaven. 5What shall ye be obliged to do? Ye shall not have to hide on the day of the great judgement and ye shall not be found as sinners, and the eternal judgement shall be far from you for all the generations of the world.
6And now fear not, ye righteous, when ye see the sinners growing strong and prospering in their ways: be not companions with them, but keep afar from their violence; for ye shall become companions of the hosts of heaven.

Not So, the Wicked
7And, although ye sinners say: "All our sins shall not be searched out and be written down," nevertheless they shall write down all your sins every day. 8And now I show unto you that light and darkness, day and night, see all your sins. 9Be not godless in your hearts, and lie not and alter not the words of uprightness, nor charge with lying the words of the Holy Great One, nor take account of your idols; for all your lying and all your godlessness issue not in righteousness but in great sin.

Jesus said this:
Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Mat 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

The book of Deeds of one's life is opened at the judgment of that one, and if the deeds of evil have not been blotted out by the Atonement -personally received by faith- then that one will be judged for each deed done against the Light, and that light lights every man that comes into the world.

yeshuasavedme · Apr 23, 2011

SummaScriptura said:
The oldest source for the tradition that Enoch was the first scribe is the Book of Enoch. Even for those who late-date the book, it still comes out older than any other written source for the idea.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Awhile back I became aware of verse numbering errors in the various online copies of R.H. Charles' translation of The Book of Enoch.

In 2006, I perpetuated the same mistake, basing my own webpage on the text found at the Wesleyan University site:
http://wesley.nnu.edu/biblical_studies/noncanon/ot/pseudo/enoch.htm

So, initially my website also had many places where verses were divided incorrectly and sometimes verse numbers were missing completly and/or verses had been combined and run together.

Just look at the following example. Notice where the division for Enoch 1:2 comes (taken from the CCEL.org site):

[sup]1[/sup]The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be [sup]2[/sup]living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked and godless are to be removed. And he took up his parable and said -Enoch a righteous man, whose eyes were opened by God, saw the vision of the Holy One in the heavens, which the angels showed me, and from them I heard everything, and from them I understood as I saw, but not for this generation, but for a remote one which is [sup]3[/sup]for to come.

That's pretty odd, don't you think?

Here's what it should look like (which makes it a lot nicer for quoting purposes):

[sup]1[/sup]The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked and godless are to be removed. [sup]2[/sup]And he took up his parable and said- Enoch a righteous man, whose eyes were opened by God, saw the vision of the Holy One in the heavens, which the angels showed me, and from them I heard everything, and from them I understood as I saw, but not for this generation, but for a remote one which is for to come.

The following sites all have the same sort of verse numbering and division problems:

http://www.heaven.net.nz/writings/thebookofenochwithversenumbers.htm
http://www.altheim.com/lit/enoch.html
http://www.ccel.org/c/charles/otpseudepig/enoch/ENOCH_1.HTM
http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/ethiopian/enoch/1watchers/watchers.htm
Books of Enoch
http://wesley.nnu.edu/biblical_studies/noncanon/ot/pseudo/enoch.htm

Since then, I have received a corrected digital copy.

I also have an old hard copy edition of The Book of Enoch, published by S.P.C.K., with which to compare my corrected digital copy; they are the same.

I have converted the entire book into fully linkable HTML; all chapters and verses are linkable. In this version the verse breaks and numbers are correct

I also made sure it has a proper paragraph format for easier reading, with the poetry sections of the book showing in versified form.

http://www.summascriptura.com/html/Enoch_1_RHC.htm

You may feel free to link to any chapter and verse within the text.

To link to Chapters use this convention:
http://www.summascriptura.com/html/Enoch_1_RHC.htm#69

To link to Verses use this convention:
http://www.summascriptura.com/html/Enoch_1_RHC.htm#69:26

The # (pound) sign directs the URL to internal anchors on the page for either chapters or chapters and verses.

Enjoy!

I thought the numbering system was just lines of the original manuscripts which were translated and had nothing to do with verses?
They are certainly not "verses" at any rate, and as there was nothing in the original to separate -even- words, then they do distract.
And you know I make use of your link all the time. Thank you again and again for that resource.

yeshuasavedme · Apr 23, 2011

SummaScriptura said:
Hmmm...

I wonder what Eusebius' source was?

Here's a puzzle for you...

Until the mid-20th century, there was a book which was unknown to the histories of the Jews and the Church. In the Dead Sea Scrolls a book was recovered which is called (misnomered actually) "The Genesis Aprocryphon". In the Genesis Apocryphon I find the following mentioned (the speaker is Abram, writing in the first person).

As you can see, this pre-Christian book has Abram as the preserver in his day of the book(s) of Enoch. He reads from it in the presence of the Egyptians. There is an uncanny similarity with Eusebius' mention above and Abram's first-person account in the Genesis Apocryphon.

I had not read your post above before I made mention of the same info.

yeshuasavedme · Apr 23, 2011

Enoch learned to write, but books were written before him, by others, and from the time of Adam, on, records were kept. Genesis 5 is written in a way that makes it state that the genealogy table is from the "book/writing of Adam". Adam did not die for 930 years, and Enoch was born before Adam died.
The writing of the real book of Jasher gives a prophecy Abel made about YHWH being the one who would avenge his blood if Cain killed him. Jesus called Abel a prophet -and the first one mentioned. Jasher was written as a redaction of the historical account of the writings [personal testimonies] of the upright" from the first father, Adam, to Moses. At Moses birth, it began a more detailed account of his own life, which was further redacted for Genesis.
I believe Jasher was written by Moses, and completed by Joshua, after which Joshua continues the histories from his own writing, and after Joshua, Samuel began the accounts, beginning with the period of the Judges.
Many books of the Tenach are histories in the same manner that Jasher is, but Enoch is true parabolic and revelational teaching which is the foundation for every doctrine of the OT and NT.

Enoch Recounts Two Dream-Visions
83 And now, my son Methuselah, I will show thee all my visions which I have seen, recounting them before thee.
2Two visions I saw before I took a wife, and the one was quite unlike the other: the first when I was learning to write: the second before I took thy mother, when I saw a terrible vision.
3And regarding them I prayed to the Lord.

In Jasher, we read about another righteous scribe before the flood of Noah:

And Cainan grew up and he was forty years old, and he became wise and had knowledge and skill in all wisdom, and he reigned over all the sons of men, and he led the sons of men to wisdom and knowledge; for Cainan was a very wise man and had understanding in all wisdom, and with his wisdom he ruled over spirits and demons;
12 And Cainan knew by his wisdom that God would destroy the sons of men for having sinned upon earth, and that the Lord would in the latter days bring upon them the waters of the flood.

13 And in those days Cainan wrote upon tablets of stone, what was to take place in time to come, and he put them in his treasures.
14 And Cainan reigned over the whole earth, and he turned some of the sons of men to the service of God.
Jasher Chapter 2 - The Book of Jasher Published by J.H. Parry & Company 1887

razeontherock · Apr 23, 2011

yeshuasavedme said:
Enoch is teaching which is the foundation for every doctrine of the OT and NT.

Exactly what the Lord showed me from reading it!

Was Enoch the first scribe?

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