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Was 'Christ died for our sins' preached to the unsaved?

Discussion in 'Soteriology DEBATE' started by janxharris, Sep 23, 2014.

  1. janxharris

    janxharris Veteran

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    1 Corinthians 15:3 (KJV)
    For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

    Paul's language here is clear: that which Paul received (Galatians 1:12 - 'by revelation from Jesus Christ') he delivered to them 'first of all'. He didn't proclaim it after some period of time or event. The literal Greek (of the first part of the verse) is: I delivered indeed to you in the foremost, what also I received,

    What was received was delivered to them 'in the foremost'. It is apparent that Paul did not wait until conversion before delivering what he had received. That would not constitute 'in the foremost'.

    Such a gospel was proclaimed by the other apostles too:
    v.11 Whether, then, it is I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2014
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  2. Hammster

    Hammster Semper Fi! Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    There's no evidence in any of the recorded messages from any of the apostles that they ever said the Christ died for everyone's sins while they evangelized. If it carried the importance in the way the OP say it does, it would be all through their messages. It would at least be mentioned once, you'd think.
     
  3. Hammster

    Hammster Semper Fi! Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Plus, let's take notice of the subtle change the IP makes. A bit of bait and switch. He goes from what Paul says (Christ died for our sins) and makes it into Christ died for everyone's sins. It's as if the personal pronoun is irrelevant.
     
  4. janxharris

    janxharris Veteran

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    This does not deal with the specifics of the OP.

    Paul preached Christ crucified to the unsaved (1Cor 1:23, Romans 15:20). 1 Cor. 15:3,11 is where he specifies that he said 'our' to the unsaved.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2014
  5. janxharris

    janxharris Veteran

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    I focus on that fact that Paul and the apostles preach 'our', not 'everyone'. Since we are to preach to all of creation then what is your point?
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2014
  6. Hammster

    Hammster Semper Fi! Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    It does deal with specifics. You said it was of first importance, yet there's no recorded use of the phrase in his evangelism. Please deal with that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2014
  7. Hammster

    Hammster Semper Fi! Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    The same as usual. You ignore context.
     
  8. A New Dawn

    A New Dawn God is bigger than the boogeyman!

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    Paul's letters were to believers. There is no place in the Bible where it is recorded what Paul preached, so you are going waaaay out on a limb by suggesting that the "our" indicated non-elect unbelievers rather than the believers that were receiving his letters.
     
  9. janxharris

    janxharris Veteran

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    In 1 Corinthians 15:1-8 Paul documents the Gospel.
    Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

    For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.​

    We also know that Paul and the apostles preached the Gospel:

    Acts 5:42
    Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Messiah.

    ibid. 8:4-5, 12, 25, 35, 40
    Those who had been scattered preached the word wherever they went. Philip went down to a city in Samaria and proclaimed the Messiah there.

    But when they believed Philip as he proclaimed the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

    After they had further proclaimed the word of the Lord and testified about Jesus, Peter and John returned to Jerusalem, preaching the gospel in many Samaritan villages.

    Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus.

    Philip, however, appeared at Azotus and traveled about, preaching the gospel in all the towns until he reached Caesarea.
    So 1 Cor 15:3-8 is the Gospel and Paul and the apostles preached it (as clearly stated in Acts). I do not need to furnish you with a precise wording since they are subsumed in 'teaching and proclaiming the good news', 'preached the word', 'proclaimed the good news', 'preching the gospel' and 'told him the good news about Jesus'.

    Only if you can refute the OP could you make a case for your assertion that 'Christ died for our sins' was not spoken to unbelievers. You still have not done so.
     
  10. janxharris

    janxharris Veteran

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    http://www.christianforums.com/t7840224-18/#post66344115 :

    Paul is talking to believers and those who will become believers. That is his target audience. It doesn't matter that some who weren't, and never would be, believers were there to hear it. The offer was made to all (if that is what you insist) so that the elect would hear and respond. IT. JUST. DOESN'T. MATTER.
     
  11. Hammster

    Hammster Semper Fi! Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    I have refuted it. You have just ignored my argument. There's absolutely no record of Paul, or any apostle, telling unbelievers that Christ died for their sins. You'd think that would be important enough to make Pentecost.
     
  12. janxharris

    janxharris Veteran

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    No you have not. The OP stands unrefuted.

    I have not ignored your argument.

    Paul and the apostled preached the Gospel.
    1 Cor 15:3-8 is the Gospel.
    Therefore they preached 1 Cor 15:3-8

    Your position is only tenable if you can refute the OP which you have not done. Yours is an argument is from silence.
     
  13. janxharris

    janxharris Veteran

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    It's quite clear that you are unable to refute the OP, so you have resorted to a weak argument based on silence. You're forgetting, of course, that 1 Cor 15 IS an example of that which you are requesting.

    Until you refute the OP then it stands.
     
  14. Hammster

    Hammster Semper Fi! Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Did Peter preach the gospel at Pentecost? Is there any examples of evangelism in scripture where the gospel was preached?
     
  15. nobdysfool

    nobdysfool The original! Accept no substitutes!

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    Tell him what's he's won, Johnny! <smh>

    Insisting that an OP "remains unrefuted" is a personal opinion, ONLY. Opinions vary.
     
  16. janxharris

    janxharris Veteran

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    Acts 2.

    As noted before, 1 Cor 15:3-8 stands as an example of the Gospel Paul and the apostles preached - and that they did so to unbelievers is clear from vv.1-3...and in particular v.3a (as in the OP).
     
  17. janxharris

    janxharris Veteran

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    Please address the OP. Thanks.
     
  18. Hammster

    Hammster Semper Fi! Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    So Peter didn't preach the gospel, according to you. Hmmm. Maybe those folks weren't saved after all.
     
  19. janxharris

    janxharris Veteran

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    You are correctly making the point that the gospel was expressed in different ways.

    But you still have not refuted the OP.
     
  20. Hammster

    Hammster Semper Fi! Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    It's expressed in different ways depending on the audience. It's expressed to believers by assuring them that Christ died for their sins. That's what Paul does in 1 Corinthians.
     
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