Was Augustine the one who created "Calvinism", and why?

[BABerean2]

Did Augustine create "Calvinism" to explain how infants could become the "elect" through baptism? Since they had not come to faith, it must be based upon the will of another.
It could have nothing to do with the infant's will.

Dr. Ken Wilson has read all of the writings of Augustine, and is interviewed in the video below.

Many of those today who call themselves "Calvinists" admit the doctrine was taught by Augustine.

Much of the modern evangelical Church in America has divided itself into two man-made systems of Bible interpretation.

Some claim to be "Reformed", or "Calvinists", although these two are not connected together by Lutherans.

Others claims to be "Dispensationalists".

Neither of these man-made systems is found in the Bible. The only way to make them work is by ignoring certain passages of scripture.

.

 

[Dave L]

I think Paul was Augustine's influence. Luther and Calvin along with other reformers drew from Augustine, and later the English Baptists and many today drew from them.

 

[PloverWing]

I didn't watch the (rather long) video, but in reply your post: It's not a matter of "admitting" a debt to Augustine; the Reformers quite consciously built on what Augustine had written. Remember that Martin Luther was an Augustinian friar.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Did Augustine create "Calvinism" to explain how infants could become the "elect" through baptism? Since they had not come to faith, it must be based upon the will of another.
It could have nothing to do with the infant's will.

Dr. Ken Wilson has read all of the writings of Augustine, and is interviewed in the video below.

Many of those today who call themselves "Calvinists" admit the doctrine was taught by Augustine.

Much of the modern evangelical Church in America has divided itself into two man-made systems of Bible interpretation.

Some claim to be "Reformed", or "Calvinists", although these two are not connected together by Lutherans.

Others claims to be "Dispensationalists".

Neither of these man-made systems is found in the Bible. The only way to make them work is by ignoring certain passages of scripture.

.

The ecumenical council of the church decides doctrine not Augustine. The church has never taught predestination and rejected Calvin’s doctrines. This is abundantly clear through the ECF’s writings refuting eternal security. How could someone be predestined to salvation if they can lose their salvation by failing to abide? The church has always taught that salvation is conditional. Augustine openly admitted that he made many errors in his writings as he was learning more and more about God’s word.

 

[bmjackson]

The dividing line between Calvinists and Arminians, is in Romans 7. Is the man saved or unsaved, with grace or without grace?

Calvinists say it is the man after he is saved and is the normal Christian life. Arminians say it is before. Neither is correct as there is a third interpretation but it is not accepted at large by the church.

The Arminian view was commonly held by the church (though not all of it) and the Calvinist view which came from Augustine. did not start until he was in dispute with the man who held the lesser held view but which has been there since the start of the church but persecuted as it says that man can be without sin.

 

[Dave L]

The ecumenical council of the church decides doctrine not Augustine. The church has never taught predestination and rejected Calvin’s doctrines. This is abundantly clear through the ECF’s writings refuting eternal security. How could someone be predestined to salvation if they can lose their salvation by failing to abide? The church has always taught that salvation is conditional. Augustine openly admitted that he made many errors in his writings as he was learning more and more about God’s word.

The doctrine of Pelagius had been condemned in the provincial Synod of Carthage, A.D. 412; in the Council of Jerusalem, 413; and in the Third General Council at Ephesus, 431. The opposite doctrine of Augustine was declared to be Scriptural and the doctrine of the Church. It was one of the inevitable consequences of Augustine’s doctrine of efficacious grace, that God is sovereign in election and reprobation.

Hodge, C. (1997). Systematic theology (Vol. 2, p. 712). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

"The Church" = ?

 

[Jonaitis]

I don't understand how you can look at so many clear passages on predestination and predetermination and still think these are man-made concepts. It seems strange that people would rather hold a belief that history, and all the events that take place, are out of the contingency of chance and that God works around it, instead of accepting that all things were planned out by his infinite wisdom and that nothing that occurs is an accident, but has a purpose that was originally designed for his glory.

"Calvinism" as it is generally understood nowadays, removes all pride and boasting from the individual, and fixates all glory to God alone for his/her salvation. These biblical truths shows him/her that they are utterly incapable of anything truly good, and of reaching God, on their own; that the only possibility of their redemption is that it was founded in an eternal love before they were born; that only Jesus can satisfy what God's law demands; that only the Holy Spirit can efficaciously change and draw them to obedience; that only God can keep them persevering in the faith and good works. "Calvinism" glorifies God as the Savior in all aspects of our redemption, not just in Jesus' death, but in the Father's eternal election and the Spirit's efficacious hand in bringing us to himself. It glorifies the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and humbles the man as helpless. It makes us acknowledge who we really are in light of what God says, and how great and awesome God really is. It deeps our love for him, further establishes our joy in him, and prunes the branches to bear more fruit in him. It is one of the first steps to maturity, in my opinion, to see these truths in the Scriptures the way they were meant to be understood.

I was predestined to eternal life, not for anything God saw in me, or from me, or about me, but out of his free will and mercy he wanted to. Nothing of me influenced his choice, he loves me because he wanted to, even when I didn't deserve it - and I don't deserve it.

 

[bmjackson]

Predestination and predetermination are regarding some disciples who are called out from among others to be conformed. Not all are to be conformed. Just look around you and you see that. It was the same in OT times, the few who walked by faith were the ones who were the children of God.

 

[Jonaitis]

Predestination and predetermination are regarding some disciples who are called out from among others to be conformed. Not all are to be conformed. Just look around you and you see that. It was the same in OT times, the few who walked by faith were the ones who were the children of God.

All whom God has chosen are called to be conformed.

 

[GodsGrace101]

I don't understand how you can look at so many clear passages on predestination and predetermination and still think these are man-made concepts. It seems strange that people would rather hold a belief that history, and all the events that take place, are out of the contingency of chance and that God works around it, instead of accepting that all things were planned out by his infinite wisdom and that nothing that occurs is an accident, but has a purpose that was originally designed for his glory.

"Calvinism" as it is generally understood nowadays, removes all pride and boasting from the individual, and fixates all glory to God alone for his/her salvation. These biblical truths shows him/her that they are utterly incapable of anything truly good, and of reaching God, on their own; that the only possibility of their redemption is that it was founded in an eternal love before they were born; that only Jesus can satisfy what God's law demands; that only the Holy Spirit can efficaciously change and draw them to obedience; that only God can keep them persevering in the faith and good works. "Calvinism" glorifies God as the Savior in all aspects of our redemption, not just in Jesus' death, but in the Father's eternal election and the Spirit's efficacious hand in bringing us to himself. It glorifies the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and humbles the man as helpless. It makes us acknowledge who we really are in light of what God says, and how great and awesome God really is. It deeps our love for him, further establishes our joy in him, and prunes the branches to bear more fruit in him. It is one of the first steps to maturity, in my opinion, to see these truths in the Scriptures the way they were meant to be understood.

I was predestined to eternal life, not for anything God saw in me, or from me, or about me, but out of his free will and mercy he wanted to. Nothing of me influenced his choice, he loves me because he wanted to, even when I didn't deserve it - and I don't deserve it.

Calvinism also removes personal responsibility for sin from every human...so, if we're not responsible for our sin because God predestinated everything,,,Why would He send a perfectly innocent person to hell for just doing what God wanted him to do?

Why do you think God has free will and we don't?
We were made in His image...free will was given to Adam and was never taken away.

If we don't have free will NO ONE should be going to hell, and if some are, then God is a very unjust God.

Doesn't scripture say that God is a just God?

Isaiah 30:18
Therefore the LORD longs to be gracious to you, And therefore He waits on high to have compassion on you For the LORD is a God of justice; How blessed are all those who long for Him.

Deuteronomy 32:4
"The Rock! His work is perfect, For all His ways are just; A God of faithfulness and without injustice, Righteous and upright is He.

Acts 10:34-35
Opening his mouth, Peter said: "I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality, but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him.

 

[Jonaitis]

Calvinism also removes personal responsibility for sin from every human...so, if we're not responsible for our sin because God predestinated everything,,,Why would He send a perfectly innocent person to hell for just doing what God wanted him to do?

Why do you think God has free will and we don't?
We were made in His image...free will was given to Adam and was never taken away.

If we don't have free will NO ONE should be going to hell, and if some are, then God is a very unjust God.

Doesn't scripture say that God is a just God?

Isaiah 30:18
Therefore the LORD longs to be gracious to you, And therefore He waits on high to have compassion on you For the LORD is a God of justice; How blessed are all those who long for Him.

Deuteronomy 32:4
"The Rock! His work is perfect, For all His ways are just; A God of faithfulness and without injustice, Righteous and upright is He.

Acts 10:34-35
Opening his mouth, Peter said: "I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality, but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him.

Calvinism doesn't remove the individual's responsibility, but rather establishes it.

You seem to have a misconception of predestination since you claim that a "perfectly innocent person [goes] to hell for just doing what God wanted him to do." If a man lives his life willfully in defiance to God, out of his own "free" will, how is God blamed for his just end?

You seem to also have a misconception of how we understand "free will." We affirm that people have the capacity to make conscious choices, that all men and women have the faculty of the will. Anyone who denies this must be irrational in his thinking.

When we speak of "free" will, we refer to the freedom of the will to choose that which is spiritually good. In our natural corruption from the fall, the mind, the heart, and the will were affected. We no longer think right, we no longer have right affections, and we no longer choose right. We still have the faculty of the will to choose, but according to our desires which are corrupted in sin. If the gospel is preached, we naturally hate it and refuse it and resist it. Only the work of regeneration, by the Holy Spirit, can the will be renewed to choose that which is right, the heart to love that which is good, and the mind to think that which is pleasing to God, and that is a work outside of ourselves.

 

[Dave L]

Calvinism also removes personal responsibility for sin from every human...so, if we're not responsible for our sin because God predestinated everything,,,Why would He send a perfectly innocent person to hell for just doing what God wanted him to do?

Why do you think God has free will and we don't?
We were made in His image...free will was given to Adam and was never taken away.

If we don't have free will NO ONE should be going to hell, and if some are, then God is a very unjust God.

Doesn't scripture say that God is a just God?

Isaiah 30:18
Therefore the LORD longs to be gracious to you, And therefore He waits on high to have compassion on you For the LORD is a God of justice; How blessed are all those who long for Him.

Deuteronomy 32:4
"The Rock! His work is perfect, For all His ways are just; A God of faithfulness and without injustice, Righteous and upright is He.

Acts 10:34-35
Opening his mouth, Peter said: "I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality, but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him.

What most people do not realize, is if Calvin was right about God, many hate God who think they serve him.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Calvinism doesn't remove the individual's responsibility, but rather establishes it.

You seem to have a misconception of predestination since you claim that a "perfectly innocent person [goes] to hell for just doing what God wanted him to do." If a man lives his life willfully in defiance to God, out of his own "free" will, how is God blamed for his just end?

How is a person's responsibility established if it's God that makes me sin because HE has already predetermined everything? If God makes me sin,,,HE is responsible for my sin...not me.
I can only be responsible for what I choose to do freely of my own free will.

Man is born lost,,this is not what we're speaking of.
We're speaking about responsibility for sinning.
Again: IF God predestines EVERYTHING,,,then HE is responsible for all sin in every human being since it is HE who predetermined this.

You seem to also have a misconception of how we understand "free will." We affirm that people have the capacity to make conscious choices, that all men and women have the faculty of the will. Anyone who denies this must be irrational in his thinking.

When we speak of "free" will, we refer to the freedom of the will to choose that which is spiritually good. In our natural corruption from the fall, the mind, the heart, and the will were affected. We no longer think right, we no longer have right affections, and we no longer choose right. We still have the faculty of the will to choose, but according to our desires which are corrupted in sin. If the gospel is preached, we naturally hate it and refuse it and resist it. Only the work of regeneration, by the Holy Spirit, can the will be renewed to choose that which is right, the heart to love that which is good, and the mind to think that which is pleasing to God, and that is a work outside of ourselves.

Do you understand calvinism? It sound dubious from your statement above. You're discussing the sin nature above..NOT free will.

The gospel is not naturally hated.
Faith comes by hearing....
HEARING THE WORD OF GOD.
Romans 10:17

Those who wish to serve God will believe on Him once they hear the good news.

As far as doing what is pleasing to God....
One must be born from above in order to please God.
And how is this done?
By believing in Jesus, the only Begotten Son.
John 3:16

It states that WHOEVER believes in Him will be saved. The choice is up to each one of us individually.

As to free will....
Surely you must believe in compatible free will, which you did not describe in your post, and which is not true free will because it is decided by an outside force...God.

I, of course, believe in TRUE free will:
Libertarian free will. A moral choice made by ME, with no outside influence.

 

[GodsGrace101]

What most people do not realize, is if Calvin was right about God, many hate God who think they serve him.

I have difficulty in understanding how anyone could love a God that is:
Unloving
Unmerciful
Unjust

The opposite of what the bible teaches us about Him.

 

[Dave L]

I have difficulty in understanding how anyone could love a God that is:
Unloving
Unmerciful
Unjust

The opposite of what the bible teaches us about Him.

“And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.” (Deuteronomy 30:6)

 

[Jonaitis]

Let's start with this one first.

How is a person's responsibility established if it's God that makes me sin because HE has already predetermined everything? If God makes me sin,,,HE is responsible for my sin...not me.
I can only be responsible for what I choose to do freely of my own free will.

You seem to imply that if God predetermines a person's actions, he must be responsible for it, but this sort of thing happened all of the time throughout the Old Testament. Don't you remember the story of Joseph? He dreamed twice that he would be ruler, and that his brothers would bow down to him. How did God bring it about? His brothers sold him, he was accused by his master's wife and jailed, he interpreted two men's dreams in prison, and he was brought to Pharaoh to explain his dreams, and through all of those events he became second ruler in Egypt.

It was during the seven years of famine when his brothers, sent by his father, came to purchase food from Joseph. They did not recognize him, but they paid homage to him. His life and mission was predetermined by God, through the willful and free choices of men and women who had no idea what was really happening. When his brothers found out that he was Joseph, and feared for their lives, what was Joseph's response?

"As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today." - Genesis 50:20

The greatest example of the compatibility of God's predetermination and man's responsibility is the birth, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus. His whole mission was predetermined, and all the interactions he would have with people were predetermined, and it was all prophesied long before it occurred.

"...this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men." - Acts 2:23

God can predetermine your willful choices without being responsible for it, but leaving it to you.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Let's start with this one first.


You seem to imply that if God predetermines a person's actions, he must be responsible for it, but this sort of thing happened all of the time throughout the Old Testament. Don't you remember the story of Joseph? He dreamed twice that he would be ruler, and that his brothers would bow down to him. How did God bring it about? His brothers sold him, he was accused by his master's wife and jailed, he interpreted two men's dreams in prison, and he was brought to Pharaoh to explain his dreams, and through all of those events he became second ruler in Egypt.

We have two big problems in the Christian faith.
One is where evil began and the other is reconciling God's sovereignty with our free will.

If God is sovereign and determinism is correct, then, being a Just God, He cannot hold us responsible for our actions, since HE determined what our moral choices will be.

OTOH, how does God achieve His goal for us if we have free will? What if we don't choose what He would want us to do?

Basically what we have to do is choose which God we believe is better represented in the two scenarios above...which God best fits the description on the Old and New Testament.

In the story of Joseph, we have a perfect example.
Did God WANT Joseph to be captured and brought to Egypt. As a result the Israelites became enslaved for about 400 years.

It was during the seven years of famine when his brothers, sent by his father, came to purchase food from Joseph. They did not recognize him, but they paid homage to him. His life and mission was predetermined by God, through the willful and free choices of men and women who had no idea what was really happening. When his brothers found out that he was Joseph, and feared for their lives, what was Joseph's response?

"As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today." - Genesis 50:20

Absolutely...God will work everything to what HE wills. But I do believe He can do this without taking away our free will.

Also, I can say that there are certain persons in the bible that God used for His own purpose. One would be Pharaoh, although this could be argued. Another person would be Judas...and Mary...It certainly does seem that they were chosen, but also Mary DID give her YES to Gabriel. God's sovereignty working with man's free will.

The greatest example of the compatibility of God's predetermination and man's responsibility is the birth, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus. His whole mission was predetermined, and all the interactions he would have with people were predetermined, and it was all prophesied long before it occurred.

"...this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men." - Acts 2:23

God can predetermine your willful choices without being responsible for it, but leaving it to you.

God did plan Jesus' sacrifice from the beginning of creation. However, please not that you used the word FOREKNOWLEDGE...In Jesus' case I believe it was planned,,,but most of the time when the N.T. uses words about something being elect....it's always speaking about God's foreknowledge and not predestination of who will be saved or who will be lost.

 

[Dave L]

We have two big problems in the Christian faith.
One is where evil began and the other is reconciling God's sovereignty with our free will.

It is easy to reconcile if you realize people choose what they want for a certain reason. But God controls them through the reasons they base their choices on.

 

[GodsGrace101]

It is easy to reconcile if you realize people choose what they want for a certain reason. But God controls them through the reasons they base their choices on.

That sounds like compatiblist free will.

I tend to look at it like a football game.
Every person on the field makes their own choice as to what move to make....but ultimately it is God that decides how the game will end.

Like that verse you posted....
God can use any action to bring about what He wishes.

 

[Jonaitis]

We have two big problems in the Christian faith. One is where evil began and the other is reconciling God's sovereignty with our free will.

If God is sovereign and determinism is correct, then, being a Just God, He cannot hold us responsible for our actions, since HE determined what our moral choices will be.

If God didn't eternally decree all things to occur the way they would, with a purpose, then we are forced to conclude that God comes to know events as they take place. He learns something from what transpires, rather than what he ordained to happen. Even if you claim omniscience, it doesn't have a different conclusion, actually it would be a contradiction, because you cannot know all things and still learn and determine events based on what you foresaw. God no longer is immutable and all-knowing, but has become subject to the law of time and space. Rather than affirming that all events were predetermined and under the providential sovereignty of God, you are forced to conclude that what transpires in time influences God and his actions, and can change his plans. Seems like a power struggle between him and his creation, instead of him ruling all things under him.

The other option is to deny God's real intervention in the world, a kind of deism, where he creates something and abandons it to its contingent and ever-changing course. The fall? Either he made a mistake, he wasn't able stop it, or he sat back and watched it to see what will happen.

This doesn't only conflict with his immutability and omniscience, but also every other attribute of his. His wisdom isn't perfect, his justice isn't objective, his love is conditional, his power is limited, his goodness is influenced, and the list goes on. You have a completely different God if you take a good look at it.

In the story of Joseph, we have a perfect example.
Did God WANT Joseph to be captured and brought to Egypt. As a result the Israelites became enslaved for about 400 years.

The enslavement in Egypt was predetermined:

"Then the Lord said to Abram, 'Know for certain that your offspring will be sojourners in a land that is not theirs and will be servants there, and they will be afflicted for four hundred years.'" - Genesis 15:13

So the life and mission of Joseph was predetermined in light of a greater plan that was predetermined through the actions of men and women.

God did plan Jesus' sacrifice from the beginning of creation. However, please not that you used the word FOREKNOWLEDGE...In Jesus' case I believe it was planned,,,but most of the time when the N.T. uses words about something being elect....it's always speaking about God's foreknowledge and not predestination of who will be saved or who will be lost.

How does 'foreknowledge' help your case? It doesn't contradict predestination, but rather affirms it. Jesus was foreknown and predestined to save sinners. I think you are mistaking 'foreknown' with the term 'foresaw,' they are not the same thing. To 'foreknow" is to know someone beforehand. Whenever the word 'foreknowledge' is used in Scripture, it never refers to anyone's actions or events, but always a person. God foreknows individuals, not just foresees their actions.

It is funny how you affirm Jesus' birth, life, and death was predetermined, but deny everything else was predetermined? How does that work out? How can some part of history be predestined, but not the rest?