War with Israel

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BlandOatmeal

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War could break out involving Israel, at any time (I am writing this Oct 2012)

One distinguishing feature of the world before both WWI and WWII, was that the major powers were alligned into opposing blocs. The major blocs today are:

IN THE GREEN TRUNKS:

Iran, Syria, Hizbullah, Hamas

IN THE RED, WHITE AND BLUE TRUNKS:

NATO (including Turkey) and the Gulf Cooperation Council (Saudi Arabia & friends)

The current Israeli leadership is very closely aligned with the "Red White & Blues".

If that sounds like an unequal match, one might allow that the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, which includes Russia and China, have considerable military links with the "Green Trunks" folks.

I have seen many, here and elsewhere, who have argued that war will not break out in the Middle East because Israel is unlikely to attack Iran. This is wrong thinking because,

1. The war doesn't have to start with Israel attacking Iran. The Green Trunks folks have said that they will attack Israel, if any one of them is attacked -- by Israel or anyone else.

2. War has already begun. Turkey and Syria have been shelling each other for five days now, and Israel and Hamas have just finished an artillery exchange -- along with intrusion over one another's airspace by drone aircraft. Hizbullah is reported to have tens of thousands of advanced missiles, ready to be used against Israel on a moment's notice; and Israel, Turkey and Iran alike have sent reinforcements to the front lines. Israelis are buying gas masks, and expecting war at any time.

3. Israel may attack Iran after all. The Israelis are not in the habit of announcing beforehand that they will take out an enemy's nuclear capabilities. They did it before to Iraq and Syria, without so much as a whisper beforehand. In fact, the main reason for believing that Israel will NOT attack Iran, is that they've crowed about doing it for so long. The Iranians are certainly not acting as though Israel will not attack; they are engaged in feverish military preparations.
 

BlandOatmeal

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Anyone awake out there?

Q: Can anyone find Israel on the map?

A: No; it's too small

Q: Who do 80% of Europeans believe is the main threat to peace in the world?

A: Israel

Q: What has half the business of the UN been since its inception?

A: Condemnation of Israel

Q: Can anyone find Israel on the map?

A: No; it's too small

Q: Whom does the President of Iran call a "cancer" on the earth, that must be eliminated?

A: Israel

Q: What is the ONLY Jewish homeland

A: Israel

Q: How many Arab countries are there?

A: 22

Q: How many Jewish countries are there?

A: One, Israel

Q: Who constitutes over 2/3 of the population of Israel, including all "occupied" territories?

A: Jews

Q: Where was Jesus born?

A: Israel

Q: What religion was he?

A: A Jew

Q: Where did he and his followers worship?

A: the Jewish Temple, in Jerusalem

Q: Today, what is the only group of people not allowed to pray at the Jewish Temple?

A: Jews

Q: Who controls the Jewish Temple mount?

A: Arabs

Q: Who allows them to rule there, and protects them?

A: Jews

Q; In which direction do Arabs pray, on the Temple Mount?

A: With their butt ends facing the Holy of Holies

Q: How many people here are interested in Israel?

A: By the looks of it, not many
 
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BlandOatmeal

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Latest attack on Israel, just in:

Eshkol region hit by 55 missiles and mortars from Gaza
DEBKAfile October 8, 2012, 9:40 AM (GMT+02:00) No Israeli casualties only heavy damage in the Israeli district from the pounding carried out by Palestinians early Monday in reprisal for the Israeli strike in Rafah Sunday which critically injured two terrorists, members of al Qaeda-linked groups. The Palestinians claimed 11 people were wounded in the air strike. Eshkol dwellers ordered to stay indoors and under cover.


-- Eshkol region hit by 55 missiles and mortars from Gaza
 
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Blayz

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It's possible other people, like me, stopped reading when you listed Hamas and Hizbullah as "major powers" along side Syria and Iran.

Also
War could break out involving Israel, at any time (I am writing this Oct 2012)

Indeed, and you could have been writing it any day or month of the last 10 years, and probably the next 10.
 
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BlandOatmeal

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Expat,

There is a link. Just look again. It's

Eshkol region hit by 55 missiles and mortars from Gaza

The "Q & A" bit was just to see if anyone's awake here. This is presumably a Christian blog -- Christian, as in "Christ", as in "Jesus, the Jew, who lived in Israel". I was amazed that I even had to start this thread, rather than seeing half the board filled with such threads. Anyway, thanks for posting.

Blayz,

Thank you for posting too. I see that you're an atheist, and you seem to have more interest in Israel than the Christians here. As for our "last ten years" comment, you're wrong -- it's been TWELVE years, since Jews have been able to travel wherever they've wished in their own country without fear of being attacked. My daughter visited the place in the Spring of 2000, just before the Oslo War broke out. Some people from her group went to Gaza to visit Arafat, but she went to Jerusalem with a Jew in the group, who would have been risking his life in Gaza. Even so, they did take the back roads to Hevron and even got into Egypt without being molested. An Arab offered to buy my daughter for several head of livestock, but that's as close as it came. Just a few months later, two Jews who got lost in Ramallah were eviscerated alive by the Arabs.

I check news from Israel every day, because the situation there hasn't been so volatile since 1973; and if you know the area at all, you should know that nobody considers Hamas and Hizbullah as anything other than Mediterranean beachheads of Iran. They get their training, equipment and marching orders from Tehran.

Who said anything about Iran being a world power, by the way? The Middle East doesn't have any world powers. The United States is PLEDGED to support Turkey if attacked, but since Obama got into office, none of our pledges and promises to allies have been worth the paper they were written on. Iran sees a power vacuum, and is trying to fill it -- at Israel's expense.
 
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BlandOatmeal

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JustSeeMe,

Forgive me for not knowing who you are. Perhaps you have been misdirected. This is, as Expat pointed out, the Current Events thread. You may have been looking for something in "Fashion" or "Gas Lighting".

Meanwhile, back at truly Current events, this is just in:

Iran Halts Gas Exports to Turkey after Explosion Damages Turkish Side of Pipeline

Iran Halts Gas Exports to Turkey after Explosion Damages Turkish Side of
Pipeline
News number: 9107111434 18:22 | 2012-10-08
Fars News Agency :: Iran Halts Gas Exports to Turkey after Explosion Damages Turkish Side of Pipeline
TEHRAN (FNA)- Iran halted gas exports to Turkey after a blast damaged the
pipeline in the Turkish territories, an Iranian official announced on
Monday.
"The pipeline was damaged in an explosion 50km deep into the Turkish
territory at 5:00 am (local time) on Monday," Deputy Oil Minister for Gas
Affairs Javad Oji said.
He also underlined the Iranian side's readiness to help the Turkish company,
Botas, with repairing the damaged pipeline.
No group has yet claimed responsibility for the explosion.
The pipeline has so far been hit by repeated bomb attacks by the Kurdistan
Workers Party (PKK) who are fighting against the Ankara government for
autonomy.
The Monday blast took place after Iranian Oil Minister Rostam Qassemi
announced last week that Ankara is willing to boost crude and gas imports
from Iran...


Fars News Agency :: Iran Halts Gas Exports to Turkey after Explosion Damages Turkish Side of Pipeline
Two items are mentioned here, which the casual reader might want to be appraised of:

1. Turkey is a NATO ally of the US, presumably on our side in the effort to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear technology through sanctions. You may wonder what it has been doing, therefore, importing banned items such as petroleum products from Iran. The reason is that President Obama has exempted Turkey, Japan and Iran's other major trade partners from these sanctions -- making a farce of the "sanctions" regime. Without effective sanctions, military action against Iran will become the world's only option in halting Iran's nuclear weapons drive.

2. The "PKK" is a faction of Kurdish freedom fighters, trying to liberate Kurdish-speaking Southeastern Turkey from Turkish domination. Having been labelled as "terrorists" by the Obama Administration, they are supported by the Assad government of Syria and, by extension, by Iran; but they continue to have a mind of their own.

Here is yet another example of the curious "love triangles" going on in the Middle East: US ally Turkey is flirting with our enemy Iran (with permission from the US President), and being opposed in his affair by Iran's indirect ally, the PKK. This "current" event is bound to become important in the weeks and months ahead, when other current events have become history.

Shalom shalom :)
 
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usexpat97

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We are mostly Americans here. Can you come back and let us know when war is about to break out involving AMERICA any day? We have been busy fighting senseless wars in Iraq and Afghanistan for quite some time now. We would have been fighting in Libya but our military is already tired invading practically every Muslim country in the region. I really don't care about what war some other country wants to embroil themselves in right now.

Maybe Israel could help us get out of Iraq and Afghanistan? We're allies, right? Thanks!
 
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Billnew

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It's possible other people, like me, stopped reading when you listed Hamas and Hizbullah as "major powers" along side Syria and Iran.

Also


Indeed, and you could have been writing it any day or month of the last 10 years, and probably the next 10.
I think you could say 40yrs either way.

Expat,

There is a link. Just look again. It's

Eshkol region hit by 55 missiles and mortars from Gaza

The "Q & A" bit was just to see if anyone's awake here. This is presumably a Christian blog -- Christian, as in "Christ", as in "Jesus, the Jew, who lived in Israel". I was amazed that I even had to start this thread, rather than seeing half the board filled with such threads. Anyway, thanks for posting.

Blayz,

Thank you for posting too. I see that you're an atheist, and you seem to have more interest in Israel than the Christians here. As for our "last ten years" comment, you're wrong -- it's been TWELVE years, since Jews have been able to travel wherever they've wished in their own country without fear of being attacked. My daughter visited the place in the Spring of 2000, just before the Oslo War broke out. Some people from her group went to Gaza to visit Arafat, but she went to Jerusalem with a Jew in the group, who would have been risking his life in Gaza. Even so, they did take the back roads to Hevron and even got into Egypt without being molested. An Arab offered to buy my daughter for several head of livestock, but that's as close as it came. Just a few months later, two Jews who got lost in Ramallah were eviscerated alive by the Arabs.

I check news from Israel every day, because the situation there hasn't been so volatile since 1973; and if you know the area at all, you should know that nobody considers Hamas and Hizbullah as anything other than Mediterranean beachheads of Iran. They get their training, equipment and marching orders from Tehran.

Who said anything about Iran being a world power, by the way? The Middle East doesn't have any world powers. The United States is PLEDGED to support Turkey if attacked, but since Obama got into office, none of our pledges and promises to allies have been worth the paper they were written on. Iran sees a power vacuum, and is trying to fill it -- at Israel's expense.
I also missed the link, it is in the third post. I didn't realize you had the first three posts until the link question came up.

I think Israel will see increased attacks if Obama is not re-elected, if he is re-elected they will take their time attacking Israel, because Obama won't do much more then a token response to violence against Israel, he does not support them. (family bias, not religious bias)
 
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BlandOatmeal

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Expat, you said,

We are mostly Americans here. Can you come back and let us know when war is about to break out involving AMERICA any day? We have been busy fighting senseless wars in Iraq and Afghanistan for quite some time now. We would have been fighting in Libya but our military is already tired invading practically every Muslim country in the region. I really don't care about what war some other country wants to embroil themselves in right now.

Maybe Israel could help us get out of Iraq and Afghanistan? We're allies, right? Thanks!

First of all, you rightly said that we are still involved in Iraq and Afghanistan. Obama said he would get us out of Iraq; but though we pulled out the bulk of our regular forces, we still have thousands of civilians and mercenaries in the place; and we cannot lightly shake ourselves free of the place: If we leave a power vacuum there, it will quickly be filled by Al Qaeda, Iran and Turkey, none of which is particularly concerned with supporting AMERICAN interests in the area. In Afghanistan, of course, we are more involved, under Obama, than we were under Bush; and we have increased our involvement in wars in Yemen, Somalia, Mali and Libya. We also have thousands of troops stationed in Egypt, Jordan and Israel -- troops Americans are interested in, because they are their mothers, fathers, husbands, wives, sons and daughters.

Secondly, as the British and others knew before us, when you are a maritime nation dependent on trade, as the US is, you border on the entire world; your enemies are everywhere, and you have to deal with them.

Finally, you, of all people, ought to realize that America's responsibility to its citizens extends across the globe. EVERY member of my family, including in-laws and all my grandchildren have been, at one time or another, an expat like you. I don't know where you live overseas, but I'll bet you are glad you have access to a US Consul, such as the late Ambassador Stevens. My daughter was in Israel, just before the Oslo War broke out; she was one of the first guests in Bali after the terrorist attack there; and when the airplane was blown up recently at Moscow airport by terrorists, she was in the other airport in Moscow. During 9/11, my son was abroad; and when I went to the US airport to pick him up, there were only military flights coming and going.

I think Americans are more interested than you think, Expat, in what is going on in the Middle East.
 
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cow451

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I think Americans are more interested than you think, Expat, in what is going on in the Middle East.

Being interested doesn't equal getting worked up over events that have been occurring regularly in all our lifetimes.
 
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BlandOatmeal

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Hi, Billinew, and welcome to the thread. You said,

PHP:
I think Israel will see increased attacks if Obama is not re-elected, if  he is re-elected they will take their time attacking Israel, because  Obama won't do much more then a token response to violence against  Israel, he does not support them. (family bias, not religious bias)

I'm afraid you may be correct concerning Obama. Most Israelis don't like him and don't trust him, and realize that they must act on their own to defend themselves. I am a Republican by party, and a PALEO-conservative by temperament; but concerning Israel, there is something in me that leans towards BHO. Israel has done its best on its own, without American meddling; and I am concerned that Romney might stand up for them so much that they forget how to fend for themselves.

Both Romney and Barry plan to divide little Israel into sub-bite-size pieces, by the way, as did George W. Bush. It's a completely impractical idea, as the Oslo fiasco plainly shows, so it will never come to pass. Nevertheless, it stinks literally to high heaven as US foreign policy.
 
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cow451

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Yes, the Battle of Ar Mageddon is even now unfolding. The Euphrates was dry on 9/11 when the first shot was fired.
If I had a nickel for every time I've heard this ......:liturgy:
 
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BlandOatmeal

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Hello, Creech, and welcome. You said,

I don't think Americans should be concerned about Israel. They have a very advanced military with over 300 nukes. I think we should stop giving them aide and just let them defend themselves.

Concerning the "nukes", nobody knows how many they actually have; though they certainly have the intellectual and technical expertise to produce as many as they wish. Many of the top scientists involved with our own Manhattan Project were Jews, after all, as was Albert Einstein.

As for US aid to Israel, I also think Israel would be better off without it -- PROVIDED we stop arming their enemies. Egypt wants to go back on its treaty of peace with Israel; yet even after the Egyptian people freely rampaged through the streets chanting "Death to America!", burning our flag and attacking our embassy, we continue to pour billions into their coffers; and Saudi Arabia, a major recipient of American military assistance, is still technically at war with Israel.

There are many nations waiting in the wings, wanting to do military trade with Israel once they are free of American-imposed restrictions, including PR China. Nearly all of the trade they want to do is in PURCHASING Israeli products, especially computerized systems and drones; but there could be a diplomatic pay-back if they leveraged things properly (Remember, it was the Russians and Czechs who kept Israel from being destroyed in 1948-51, while the Americans and British fought against her). While Netanyahu is PM, though, I can't imagine Israel leaving the American fold.
 
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BlandOatmeal

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Hi, Cow

You are correct, that the world has been at war with Israel for the past 64 years -- my entire lifetime.

I entitled the OP, "War with Israel", because I thought that would draw the most attention on a religious forum. Much more than Israel is involved, though; nearly our entire "Central Command" area is directly involved in current fighting, and will be heavily involved when all-out war breaks out.

The fact that the Middle East is labeled as AMERICA's "Central" command says a great deal about its importance to us. One might intuitively think our "Central" command should be somewhere in Nebraska; but in fact, our national security is dependent on events in the ME. The last I checked, half our carrier fleet was stationed in and near those waters, and we were doing extensive war-preparedness exercises there.

In past wars, we tried to compartmentalize and isolate Israel. Our pulse went up whenever they reached the Suez Canal, and we quickly did everything in our power to move them away from that important asset. During the Gulf Wars, Israel was consigned to the task of playing "catch" with Iraqi missiles while we tended to more "important" matters in the Persian Gulf. In the current conflict, though, Israel's enemies have threatened to close the Persian Gulf and attack our assets there if Israel acts in its own self-defense. That has our top brass crapping bricks.

Thanks for posting.

Shalom shalom :)
 
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BlandOatmeal

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Hi, Interpreter. You said,

Yes, the Battle of Ar Mageddon is even now unfolding. The Euphrates was dry on 9/11 when the first shot was fired.

I haven't followed water levels on the Euphrates. I've been more interested in the Nile, as in Isaiah 19:

[4] And the Egyptians will I give over into the hand of a cruel lord; and a fierce king shall rule over them, saith the Lord, the LORD of hosts.
[5] And the waters shall fail from the sea, and the river shall be wasted and dried up.
[6] And they shall turn the rivers far away; and the brooks of defence shall be emptied and dried up: the reeds and flags shall wither.
[7] The paper reeds by the brooks, by the mouth of the brooks, and every thing sown by the brooks, shall wither, be driven away, and be no more.
[8] The fishers also shall mourn, and all they that cast angle into the brooks shall lament, and they that spread nets upon the waters shall languish.
[9] Moreover they that work in fine flax, and they that weave networks, shall be confounded.
[10] And they shall be broken in the purposes thereof, all that make sluices and ponds for fish.
[11] Surely the princes of Zoan are fools, the counsel of the wise counsellers of Pharaoh is become brutish: how say ye unto Pharaoh, I am the son of the wise, the son of ancient kings?
[12] Where are they? where are thy wise men? and let them tell thee now, and let them know what the LORD of hosts hath purposed upon Egypt.
[13] The princes of Zoan are become fools, the princes of Noph are deceived; they have also seduced Egypt, even they that are the stay of the tribes thereof.
[14] The LORD hath mingled a perverse spirit in the midst thereof: and they have caused Egypt to err in every work thereof, as a drunken man staggereth in his vomit.
[15] Neither shall there be any work for Egypt, which the head or tail, branch or rush, may do.
[16] In that day shall Egypt be like unto women: and it shall be afraid and fear because of the shaking of the hand of the LORD of hosts, which he shaketh over it.
[17] And the land of Judah shall be a terror unto Egypt, every one that maketh mention thereof shall be afraid in himself, because of the counsel of the LORD of hosts, which he hath determined against it.

Israel certainly has struck terror in the hearts of the Egyptians; but I don't know when the Nile has ever dried up. Do you?
 
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BlandOatmeal

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Here's my own answer:
...On 26 July, [2010,] 600 people from the southern governorate of Minya staged a sit-down protest outside the Irrigation Ministry in Cairo to protest about the lack of water for their land. While there have been water shortage protests in previous years, the size and frequency of protests in 2010 has been unprecedented, local observers say. “Water scarcity will be even worse in the future,” Riad Aldamk, head of a water studies project at Cairo College of Engineering, told IRIN, the United Nation’s environment news source.
He said Egypt’s total water consumption had increased by 17 percent in the last five years, according to studies conducted by the college. Hotter summers were partly to blame.
A recent report by the state-run Central Agency for Public Mobilization and Statistics (CAPMAS) said annual water resources would decline by 15.2 billion cubic metres by 2017 – from a required 86.2 billion cubic metres to a projected 71.4 billion cubic metres. The report said Egypt, where average per capita consumption was 700 cubic metres of water a year – was one of 15 Arab countries under the global water scarcity mark of 1,000 cubic metres per capita. The global average is 6,750 cubic metres per person annually...
-- In the Face of “Nile-lessness” Egyptians Protest Water Shortages | Green Prophet
The Nile IS drying up, rapidly. I guess we're living in Isaiah 19.
 
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