War In Iraq.

[1973]

Hello dear christians,
Its been a long time since I posted on this forum.Hope all of u guys are OK.
We all know that SH is a brute,so was Idi amin,Kamuzu Banda and Daniel Arap Moi.We now also have Mugabe.All these are African leaders who once or currently ran brutal regimes that killed, maimed and tortured there people in the name of greed.The people in Rwanda suffered the same.Remember the apparthied regime in South Africa where the whites were not ready to give all the wealth to its rightful owners thus surpressing the black Africans.Where was America and Britian then?Or is it that these countries did not have Oil that Bush and Blair are so thirsty for.
Let the coaliation bunch tell the rest of the world what they are really after in Iraq and not cheat us all with talk off liberation when the whole world knows its not so.I know this is going to upset a lot of people on this forum but the truth is the truth.Lets not be so patriotic that we turn a blind eye to reality.
I come from Kenya where Moi and his cronies plundered and murdered people who opposed him.Yet America and Britian embraced and called him a true statesman and a great African leader.With his attrocities being done in the open how could they praise this brute.
So please open your eyes to the truth and let us pray for the people of Iraq who are suffering because of Oil war.
God bless all.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Where is your proof that this war is for oil? Show me the evidence that convinces you. And I don't want further opinions but hard evidence.

 

[panterapat]

1973,

Yes, this war is about oil. For if Iraq would control the whole Middle East, as Saddam attempted to do, this would send the world into crisis. This is the only oil connection pertaining to the US.

The immediate oil connection is with France who has billions in contracts with Iraq. For this reason they do not want to have war. Why would the US fight a war over oil? There is plenty of oil around the world at good prices. If anything, this war threatens to raise oil prices. Seems counter-productive for someone looking to fight a war for oil.

President Bush has already stated that the Iraq oil is to be used exclussively for the Iraqi people.

It is unfortunate that there is suffering in so many other countries. But all the problems of the world cannot be fixed at the same time. The US attempted to help in Somolia and you know what happened there. And President Bush just proposed a hugh AIDS package for Africa. The Peace Corps. and many othe US organizations help in Africa. BTW, during the Apartide in South Africa, the US pulled out its business interests there.

I recently heard an Iraqi woman on the radio. she said, "Peace protesters, 'shut up'. You have no idea how horrific it is to live under Saddam. God bless America for helping us and God bless George Bush for having the courage to stand up to Saddam."

Have you heard of the torture Saddam has inflicted on his people? Tongues cut out, shooting in the head, red-hot rods stuck up the anus, being dipped into acid, children's eyes gouged out in front of their parents, systematic rapes, etc. etc. etc.

Saddam is EVIL and must be stopped. Then perhaps the US will look elsewhere in the world to help other oppressed people.

"It is better to light one candle, than to curse the darkness."
-The Christophers

President Bush has lit two candles- one in Afganastan and one in Iraq. So instead of cursing the darkness, let's light some more candles in Africa and around the world.

In Christ,
Partrick

 

[1973]

nephilimiyr,you want hard evidence go ask Bush and Blair.
My brother Patrick, Moi's (former president of kenya) regime did exactly the same things SH is doing to his people.Moi even went further to start clashes where he would use miliatia loyal to him to kill people in areas where he was unpopular.This he did always just before the general elections of 1992 and 1997.And all this was known to the western worlds and they still loved him and invited him in there state houses.They called him a great African leader and all that.They did not care at all what this brute was doing to his on people.But mugabe also a brute not only kills his people but also white farmers and all the world screams at him and he's banished from countries including America and Britian.Why? coz he is killing white people.If mugabe was killing only blacks no body in the west would have raised an issue.What happened in Rwanda?black people being killed in hundreds of thousands.Did America and Britian come to their rescue?A BIG FAT NO.OHH but its because they do not have OIL.
Please guys lets not find excuses and face the facts.They have been conflicts in the world before this Iraq issue.They should have left the Iraqi people to fight their on battles.If they cried to God he would have heard their prayers.God liberated us kenyans from Moi and his people even if it took 28 years to do so through peaceful elections.God liberated the people of Zaire from Mobutu ( a brute the americans helped to take control of zaire in the 70's and turned a blind eye to the hell he was causing his people.) God helped the people of serbia to get rid of milosovic through peaceful elections.
If the millions of people rose against saddam they is nothing he would have done.
Through God all is possible and if the people of Iraq wanted saddam out and cried out to God He would have delivered.
This war is evil and the people waging it (Saddam,Bush and Blair) are evil for the innocent people of Iraq are the ones suffering for saddams bombs and the coalitions bombs.
People ask yourselves this,If the people of Iraq were against saddam why have they not started an uprising against saddam?I mean they have the coalition forces to back them up with all there sophisticated weapons.
If millions of Iraqi people revolted now they would be armed and would push saddam out.But why are they not?

 

[JohnR7]

Today at 12:57 AM 1973 said this in Post #1 


I come from Kenya 

There are two differences between Kenya and Iraq. Kenya does not restrict missionarys activity in their country, Iraq does. Also Kenya does not have weapons of war that would be a threat the way Iraq does.

 

[1973]

John,so what ur saying is that Iraq is being attacked for refusing to embrace christianty?And are all nations that have weapons of mass destruction and do not kiss up to America in danger of being invaded,sorry liberated?

 

[nephilimiyr]

No I'm asking you. I don't have a dirrect line to Bush or Blair to ask them. I was at first opposed to this war because I didn't see any evidence that Saddam posed a threat to the US, this was the only reason I opposed the war. Neither did I think the war was over oil because there is no evidence that it is. There's got to be a reason you think oil is the reason for this war other than that you think so.

nephilimiyr,you want hard evidence go ask Bush and Blair.


Did America and Britian come to their rescue?A BIG FAT NO.OHH but its because they do not have OIL.


Please guys lets not find excuses and face the facts.

Weather what you say is true or not about what has happend in Africa it still doesn't explain how this war is about oil. You can say it is but again how can you be so sure? Facts demand evidence in which you have very little to none. You do have excuses though. If you can tie in some actual facts maybe I might start seeing it your way.

 

[Gunny]

Iraqis tell allies where to bomb their city

 

[strathyboy]

Today at 07:18 AM panterapat said this

Yes, this war is about oil. For if Iraq would control the whole Middle East, as Saddam attempted to do, this would send the world into crisis. This is the only oil connection pertaining to the US.

I don't think there was ever much risk of that. Recall that Hussein is not well-liked by any other leaders in the region, and that several of those nations have significant armed forces. Should Hussein have gotten too out of hand, I have no doubt a small coalition of neighboring nations could have ended that threat.

Today at 07:18 AM panterapat said this

There is plenty of oil around the world at good prices. If anything, this war threatens to raise oil prices. Seems counter-productive for someone looking to fight a war for oil.

But the problem is how long those supplies will last in order to keep the oil prices good. When oil becomes scarce, prices will sky rocket. I've heard pessimistic assessments of a mere 15 or 20 years before oil wells start drying up. The huge reserves and potential of Iraqi oil could put that off at least another decade, especially if America was able to ration it out somewhat to keep prices stable.

Today at 07:18 AM panterapat said this

President Bush has already stated that the Iraq oil is to be used exclussively for the Iraqi people.

That may well be. But where do you think they're going to get all the parts for new oil wells? Where will they hire repair-men and technicians? Where will they find people to train the Iraqis on how to use all this new equipment? Which nation will build the pipelines to get the oil to the coast? My point is that America and American businesses stands to make a vast fortune from this, even if they won't blatantly sell the oil for profit.

I pretty much agree with the rest of your post. Note that I don't think this war is "about oil" although it certainly plays a role.

The problem with bringing up all the bad things Hussein has done is that it raises several questions: A) Why was the US ever allied with him? B) Why is the US still allied with people who are just as bad? C) Will there be invasions of other such offenders in the future?

And lastly, that Hussein is a really bad guy doesn't legitimize the argument that Hussein is a threat to American national security, an argument frequently used to drum up popular support.

 

[panterapat]

Perhaps legally, we do not have justification to attack Iraq.
But morally we are justified in freeing the Iraqi people from Saddam.
God works in strange ways. He may use someones ulterior motivation for God's own purposes. Yes, the world will be a much better place without Saddam in power.

 

[paulewog]

Just popped in to mention that if we wanted the oil, we could have had it a while ago

 

[panterapat]

Very true.

 

[cenimo]

...depending what source you use, it is usually said the Iraq provides something like 3%- maybe 20% of the world's petroleum...

It's also reported that the US has barely touched the resources in the Aleutians... if it's about oil, then there's more to the story than we'll ever know.