Wanting reproof and hearing from the Lord

[K2K]

There is a pretty well know and discussed verse Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him and he with Me

So if we hear His voice and open we can have a conversation with Him. So what is holding people up from hearing Him. Perhaps it is what's written in the verse just prior to that?

Rev 3:19 Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline' there fore be zealous and repent.

Now I generally don't like being reproved or disciplined. Yes - I need it just like the next guy but who wants to hear it? And this is a problem, isn't it. Look - if God is really there He is going to know what we are doing wrong, and so we don't want to hear from Him. Perhaps we might want to tell us the winning lottery numbers but He is probably not going to do that, Heis probably going to reprove us - isn't He? We kinda know this deep inside so we people just don't want to talk to Him. We prefer to tell ourselves He doesn't exist.

So we need to consider this and decide that we do want to know what reproof He has for us. I mean - it would actually be good for us to at least hear the reproof God has for us - wouldn't it? It is, but we need to want the reproof He has for us. If we don't, that very thing is going to get in our way from hearing from Him even though He is just standing at the door and knocking.

God, though Isaiah, said "Come now, and let us reason together," says the Lord, "Though your sins are as scarlet, They will be as white as snow..." (Is 1:18)

That's it. Go and reason with the Lord. He is going to reprove you, but getting His reproof is worth it. Now, it is not just enough to tell Him what you think, you have to be willing to listen to His reproof. Being the Word of God He puts the reproof in very interesting and easy to take ways. At least He mostly does. But what if He just tells you to stop doing something. He is right, isn't He. So it was worth seeking His input on the things in your life.

 

[jahel]

I believe you're speaking of the following scripture: “For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of the soul and spirit, and of the joints and their marrow, and is able to discern the thoughts and intentions of the heart.”—Heb. 4:12

 

[Mathetes66]

We must not only receive His reproof but also His correction & for His training & equipping us in living righteously.

2 Timothy 3:14-17 But as for you, continue in what you have learned & have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it & how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed & profitable teaching, rebuking, correcting & training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

[K2K]

I believe you're speaking of the following scripture: “For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of the soul and spirit, and of the joints and their marrow, and is able to discern the thoughts and intentions of the heart.”—Heb. 4:12

No - I am not talking about the scriptures
And Yes - I am talking about the word of God who is alive. Jesus Christ is alive and He is able to discern the thoughts and intentions of the heart where as the Bible can't

So Yes - but more than that - I am talking about wanting the Word of God (Jesus Christ) to be active in our lives so that we get His discernment and thoughts!! He is able to do that, just like the verse above says, but do we want to listen to Him? That is the question.

Sadly, they answer is that we don't want His reproof. Face it - we don't want reproof period no matter who it is coming from! That's how we are. We need to recognize that or we won't seek His voice. If we do recognize that then we can get to the conclusion that we should seek His voice and advice.


Which kind of brings me back to why we read the above verse (Heb 4:12) incorrectly thinking it is talking about the Bible instead of Jesus Christ. Clearly the scriptures are not referring to themselves, because they are writings and can not think, discern, or know your thoughts. And if we keep reading to the following verse, we read that they are telling us about "Him".

Here is the next verse Heb 4:13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.

So again, Yes I am kind of talking about that verse, but No, I am not talking about the Scriptures but rather I am talking about hearing from Him personally!! And if we consider this very thing, we have replaces listening for Him with reading the Bible, in our interpretation of the Bible because we don't want the reproof!!

Can't we see that we can read the Bible and things like loving your neighbor as yourself, and still go about pushing forward in line to cut someone off, or saying 'me first' in all sorts of little ways and still tell ourselves we are right. But if we do listen to Him He tells you let that other person go first and He will make it up to you later, and you will see Him indeed make it up to you later, because you'll need a spot when none seems to be available and you will hear Him tell you, 'turn right here' and a spot will open up right as you pull up.

Bible thumpers can do all kinds of incredibly cruel things, and they have, where as the Lord reproves those who listen to Him! And that is what I am talking about!

 

[jahel]

Fine by me. We were on a break anyway when you showed up.

 

[K2K]

Fine by me. We were on a break anyway when you showed up.

When I showed up?

Perhaps I am wrong, but the above looks like a sarcastic statement to ignore any reproof offered. It might be ok to take that attitude with me, but if me then what about the Great I AM? Do we (and I am not just talking about a person but all us people) treat God like that? Do we go to God and say inside our heart (which He can discern) "That's fine God, I was just on a break when You showed up" and then just turn our back on what He said?

I do that, and I can see that other people are like me. All I have to do is read or listen to what other people say and I can see they have the same problems I have.
Let me give an example:

I have a business and I have to deal with a bigger massive business to make my sales. And every year they look to ways to get a bigger piece of the pie at my expense. They can do that because they are the big dog, so to speak. The lastest thing is that they have decided to be hold back paying me quickly. It is called float. It is a way of borrowing money form me interest free.

So I get angry at them. Then I take my concerns to the Lord. He tells me that it is ok and He has it covered. Yeah, my cash flow it fine at the moment but this along with quarterly taxes is going to make it tighter, for sure. So I get a bit angry with Him. After all, the earth and all that is in it belongs to Him. He could do something, about them or too them. Vengeance is His. I have heard Him tell me that lots of times. But He doesn't do anything about it and I don't want His reproof about not worrying. So I stop listening to Him. I tell Him something sarcastic like, " Fine by me. We were on a break anyway when you showed up."

Of course, I get up this morning and realize that I am upset with Him. I don't want to be upset with Him, and He of course was right. It will all be fine. He does have it all covered. He didn't just show up, He had been there all the time. He was behind my cash flow being particularly good when this went down, and for all I know maybe this other company needed a break on their cash flow because of their current expansion? He still holds all things together with His hands. I need to stop getting angry. I need to quite taking offense. I need to seek the Lord and the reproof offered.

 

[jahel]

When I showed up?

Perhaps I am wrong, but the above looks like a sarcastic statement to ignore any reproof offered. It might be ok to take that attitude with me, but if me then what about the Great I AM? Do we (and I am not just talking about a person but all us people) treat God like that? Do we go to God and say inside our heart (which He can discern) "That's fine God, I was just on a break when You showed up" and then just turn our back on what He said?

I do that, and I can see that other people are like me. All I have to do is read or listen to what other people say and I can see they have the same problems I have.
Let me give an example:

I have a business and I have to deal with a bigger massive business to make my sales. And every year they look to ways to get a bigger piece of the pie at my expense. They can do that because they are the big dog, so to speak. The lastest thing is that they have decided to be hold back paying me quickly. It is called float. It is a way of borrowing money form me interest free.

So I get angry at them. Then I take my concerns to the Lord. He tells me that it is ok and He has it covered. Yeah, my cash flow it fine at the moment but this along with quarterly taxes is going to make it tighter, for sure. So I get a bit angry with Him. After all, the earth and all that is in it belongs to Him. He could do something, about them or too them. Vengeance is His. I have heard Him tell me that lots of times. But He doesn't do anything about it and I don't want His reproof about not worrying. So I stop listening to Him. I tell Him something sarcastic like, " Fine by me. We were on a break anyway when you showed up."

Of course, I get up this morning and realize that I am upset with Him. I don't want to be upset with Him, and He of course was right. It will all be fine. He does have it all covered. He didn't just show up, He had been there all the time. He was behind my cash flow being particularly good when this went down, and for all I know maybe this other company needed a break on their cash flow because of their current expansion? He still holds all things together with His hands. I need to stop getting angry. I need to quite taking offense. I need to seek the Lord and the reproof offered.

You seem to follow the rules that you set up. You said no one liked to be reprimanded by anyone, so why reprimand me?

 

[Eha]

i remember, when i used to get angry, on Father, often. What i then wanted, was to get free from slavery of sin, that hurt people around me - family, friends.
i asked Him to help me, give some advises, or at least where to start search a way out, but He remind silent.
like Paul said " In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood." i know what that means, literally.
He kept saying "Truth will set you free" but i was tired of searching, looking for right questions, getting answers, that all lead me to nowhere.
i had every right to be angry - furious!
only...
i had no right.
because all that time, Father was cleaning me and preparing for that, i did get free, permanent.
and that anger, loosing hope, pain and fear just made that day getting later.
7 years of ever day hate, fight, begging and loosing hope - every day...

and all Father was waiting for - my trust for few minutes.... all those 7 years.

now, going through many more different hopeless situations, where Father did get me through, i have learned one thing - when He, seemly, doesn't do anything - He do A LOT.
Better is to look into your heart - is there something, you could do?
Maybe not today, but later?
Have you feeling, you did something wrong?
If not and He, seemly, does not move and you prayed and give that situation into He's hand, because you cannot do anything more...
Stop thinking about that situation, sing songs and... wait.
Try to stay calm as possible.
So far this attitude get me fastest way to the door - that wasn't there yesterday yet

It is Heavenly Father's lessons, shortly.
and all that you take over few words - repent and / or wait for God and have a little faith.
so easy to say and so hard to do, i know.

sorry my bad english, any questions - ask.

 

[jahel]

I think a lot of the sweat from work given to His followers to the point of blood is done in the darkness.

 

[K2K]

You seem to follow the rules that you set up. You said no one liked to be reprimanded by anyone, so why reprimand me?

I apologize if I didn't make it clear that it is not about you but about us. WE are like that. (I believe I included and example of how I am like that also) As people we don't like to be reproved, so we don't see the Lord for what He has to say to us. So despite the fact that He stands at the door knocking with His voice we don't answer the door.

To change that very big problem, we need to understand that His reproof is good for us. We need to want the reproof He specifically has for us. We need to want His judgements. We need to want His counsel, even though it means reproof to us.

 

[jahel]

The Father created them, male and female He created them. That is the only foundation we have to stand on. The voice of experience teaches much. The rest is just dust in a bin.

 

[K2K]

Prov 15:12 A scoffer does not love one who reproves him, He will not go to the wise.

This is often the problem. Jesus said He reproves those He loves, so who specifically will the scoffer not love? Jesus of course. The verse means that if we are a scoffer we will not love the Lord nor go to the wise (Father, Son, Spirit)

Prov 13:1 A wise son accepts his father's discipline, but a scoffer does not listen to rebuke.

If we are to come to know the One who is called Everlasting Father (Is 9:6) we have to accept discipline and listen to what reproof/rebuke that He has for us.

Prov 9:8 Do not reprove a scoffer, or he will hate you. Reprove a wise man and he will love you.

This is one of my favorite verses in the Bible, but I rarely quote it because I have found people often hate me for it. That is to say, by the wisdom of that very verse I see that people are all too often scoffers and don't realize it. I also find that this verse tells me much about myself. Let me explain:

I sometime get upset with the Lord and when I do I tend to scoff at what He says. So He applies that verse and stops reproving me. In fact, because He reproves those He loves but He does not reprove a scoffer I suddenly find it very hard to get a word from Him. In those times, even when I decide I want a word from Him and seek Him (and all those who seek find) I don't get reproof but short statements like "Karl, I love you" and often I hear "Karl, I have something to tell you." I can hear those things and nothing else because I will scoff and what He has to say to me.

So if I want to get 'something' that He has to tell me I have to calm down. Make sure I am not going to scoff at what I hear but be determined to consider what He has to say!

 

[jahel]

When someone demands that you walk their mile then the proper thing to do is give them two. So perhaps your need is to walk in someone else’s moccasins for awhile.But the plain fact is, I can’t walk in yours and you can’t walk in mine. But, thanks anyway. I take my discipline from the Father, not from you. Have a nice life.

 

[K2K]

The Father created them, male and female He created them. That is the only foundation we have to stand on. The voice of experience teaches much. The rest is just dust in a bin.

It is written that Jesus Christ is the corner stone, also know as the foundational stone. He also is the Word of God, and His sheep know His voice - as read about in John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God, He was in the beginning with God.

So who is the voice of experience, if not Him. And who is the foundation if not Him. He is call Teacher and it is written that they will all be taught of God, but not all because some do not listen thought the Father commanded "LISTEN TO HIM'.

So is our foundation that God created them or is our foundation that He is the creator. It is written that all things were created though Him. Still there is something about some rejecting the Corner Stone.

Jn 1:11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not received Him,

Are we rejecting Him? Are we rejecting the Teacher provided to us? Could it be that we are unwilling to accept the reproof He has for us so that what is written about 'With their ears they don't hear and with their eyes they don't see' has become true in our case?

Surely He is the foundational stone that we have to stand on! Surely He is the voice of experience who teaches us much! But who listens and who understands?

He once told me "Karl, they call Me Wonderful Counselor and so I Am. But I am not a wonderful counselor to those who don't listen to Me."

 

[jahel]

You presume a lot in your scorn.

 

[jahel]

Tell you what. You just do whatever you can to gain your kingdom, hope that it is built solid and I’ll just build my own tower. I’m sure we have all considered the cost quite thoroughly

 

[K2K]

You presume a lot in your scorn.

Scorn?

I just preached Jesus Christ!

"Jesus Christ is the corner stone"

"So who is the voice of experience, if not Him. And who is the foundation if not Him. He is call Teacher and it is written that they will all be taught of God, but not all because some do not listen thought the Father commanded "LISTEN TO HIM'."

Jn 1:11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not received Him,

"Are we rejecting Him? Are we rejecting the Teacher provided to us? Could it be that we are unwilling to accept the reproof He has for us so that what is written about 'With their ears they don't hear and with their eyes they don't see' has become true in our case?"

"Surely He is the foundational stone that we have to stand on! Surely He is the voice of experience who teaches us much! But who listens and who understands?"

"He once told me "Karl, they call Me Wonderful Counselor and so I Am. But I am not a wonderful counselor to those who don't listen to Me."

Look closely! There is not one bit of "scorn" in anything written! It is all just preaching Jesus Christ!

So does someone just preaching Jesus Christ bring a feeling of reproof in us? Why?

Still, there was a purpose for writing this thread and that purpose was to point out that we people don't seek the Lord because we don't want to be reproved even by God. And if He has made it clear that we need to seek Him, then just preaching Him might be reproof to those looking to make their own tower to heaven. He is the way, and only Him. Isn't that what we are talking about in a section called: "Discipleship: Following Jesus"?

My friends - we need to be seeking the Lord, Jesus Christ, and trying to hear what He has to say to us personally. We don't do that like we should, and I mean me too. So I preach Him! I preach Him because I too need to be reminded to seek Him more. I preach Him because He tells me to. I preach Him because from knowing Him I realize that we all need to seek Him more. And if I write that are not wanting reproof stands in our way and keeps us from seeking Him, I am writing that because I see it in me. Yet, not only me! It is easy to see the same thing in others. So I preach Him. I am certain that I will not get to heaven by any man made tower. Not of my hands or will and not of other men's hands, will, or wisdom. The Christ is my salvation. So I need to listen to Him.

 

[jahel]

Steve Camp ~ Consider the cost ~

 

[Hishandmaiden]

God scolds me, sometimes, but always with a gentle tone.
He never condemns me, and always gentle with me.
I don't like to sin and when I sin, God always encourages me to try not to sin one day and not gives up trying to stop sinning.
God is so good, I want to be like Him, one day, righteous, in every way.