• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.
  7. There has been an addition to the announcement regarding unacceptable nick names. The phrase "Let's go Brandon" actually stands for a profanity and will be seen as a violation of the profanity rule in the future.

want to talk about OSAS?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by returntosender, Oct 21, 2020.

Are you an OSAS believer?

  1. yes

    27 vote(s)
    43.5%
  2. no

    32 vote(s)
    51.6%
  3. of course

    3 vote(s)
    4.8%
  1. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

    +1,196
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    sure it is I will give you one example. The word wedding in out culture and especially in our times in nothing like the meaning of the word in biblical times. Bride, Bridegroom, Betrothed etc..... all have much different meanings in our time and culture than it did in the time of Jesus and the disciples in Galilee. One must know the culture and history to understand and the meaning and symbolism behind the Jewish wedding to have any idea what the Parable of the 10 virgins mean and what it meant for the bride to be ready at all times for her Bridegroom for he will come at an hour you do not expect and like a thief in the night. For the time of betrothal could last anywhere between 1-3 years unlike our modern engagement which is completely different along with all the symbolism. So this is just one example of many there are in Scripture to understand the meaning of biblical words from a historical and Hebrew/Greek source rather than a secular one.

    hope this helps !!!
     
  2. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

    +6,837
    Christian
    Single
    Why
    Why do you keep adding the scripture after you make the post...very confusing?

    This from your added scripture:

    Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.

    Now answer a simple question on that. Did that believer fall away from salvation?
     
  3. Silly Uncle Wayne

    Silly Uncle Wayne Well-Known Member

    +577
    Ireland
    Charismatic
    Single
    Great if you actually lived in Greek and Hebrew times, but you don't. The words have to be translated into the common language, in this case English which have numerous synonyms for most words. I'm not sure why you object to the word 'accept' when it means the same as 'receive'. It sounds like a huge hole you are digging for yourself rather than admitting the limitations of your methodology. And if you are using Lexicons, you should be well aware that words in one language rarely mean precisely one word and one word only in another. Your Lexicons should be telling you not just what the word translates as into English, but what that means else it is a pretty useless Lexicon.
     
  4. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

    +6,837
    Christian
    Single
    If they didn't believe for awhile, what did they do for awhile?
     
  5. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

    +1,196
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Apostasy just think of judas compared to the other 11- he was apostate ! He went out from them and was not of them otherwise he would of remained with them.

    1 John 2:19-21
    They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us. 20 But you have been anointed by the Holy One, and you all have knowledge. 21 I write to you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and because no lie is of the truth.

    hope this helps !!!
     
  6. Silly Uncle Wayne

    Silly Uncle Wayne Well-Known Member

    +577
    Ireland
    Charismatic
    Single
    Does this mean that receive has some kind of different meaning now than it did in Biblical times?
     
  7. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

    +1,196
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    So you think using a modern dictionary you can understand the meaning of a wedding in biblical times ?

    You have got to be kidding me...........................
     
  8. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

    +6,837
    Christian
    Single
    You completely evaded answering the question...why do you insist on wasting my time?

    Goodbye
     
  9. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

    +2,266
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Your misunderstanding that ALL belief is the same and wishful thinking doesn’t change the truth. *See post #69.

    1 John 2:3 is the demonstrative evidence that we have come to know Him. 1 John 2:4 demonstrates otherwise. For absolute assurance of salvation, see 1 John 5:13.
     
  10. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

    +1,196
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    There is absolutely no resemblance between a wedding today and one in the time of Jesus and the disciples in Galilee.
     
  11. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

    +2,266
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    They believed in a shallow way, as I already thoroughly explained in post #69. Have you read that post yet?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
    • List
  12. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

    +1,196
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    I'm sorry you reject the truth I quoted. Scripture interprets scripture, Precept upon precept. Pot/Kettle
     
  13. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

    +6,837
    Christian
    Single
    And have I not explained to you, I don't care, they still believed, they accepted the word, then they fell away. Any one who falls away, regardless of when can have believed in a shallow way...so what?

    The point is, a believer fell away from salvation.
     
  14. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

    +6,837
    Christian
    Single
    Lol!
     
  15. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

    +1,196
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Jewish Wedding in Biblical Times

    While the exchange of covenant vows between a man and woman who love each other is a blessing in any culture, there are aspects of the Jewish wedding celebration that are rich in spiritual truths.

    This ancient ritual prophetically points to the coming of the Messiah and the great celebration of the marriage supper of the Lamb. It also teaches us unique lessons about God’s covenant love for His people.

    One would be hard pressed to find an occasion more joyous than that of a Jewish wedding. In Hebrew, it’s called a simcha (a joyous occasion).

    “Yet in the towns of Judah and the streets of Jerusalem that are deserted, inhabited by neither people nor animals, there will be heard once more the sounds of joy and gladness, the voices of bride and bridegroom.” (Jeremiah 33:1011)

    There are three distinct parts to the ancient Jewish wedding:



      • shiddukhin (mutual commitment),
      • erusin (engagement), and
      • nissuin (marriage).
    Shiddukhin: A Time of Mutual Commitment
    “The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.” (Genesis 2:18)

    Shiddukhin refers to the preliminary arrangements prior to the legal betrothal.

    In ancient times, the father of the groom often selected a bride (kallah) for his son, as did Abraham for his son Isaac (Genesis 24:1-4).

    In Ultra-Orthodox Judaism today, many marriages are still arranged by a marriage broker or matchmaker called a shadkhan. It’s considered an exalted and holy vocation to find and arrange a good marital match, called a shiddukh, between a man and woman.

    In ancient times, marriage was looked upon as more of an alliance for reasons of survival or practicality, and the concept of romantic love remained a secondary issue, if considered at all. Romantic love grew over time.

    Of course, the consent of the bride-to-be is an important consideration. Rebecca (Rivkah), for example, was asked if she agreed to go back with Abraham’s servant to marry Abraham’s son, Isaac. She went willingly (Genesis 24:57–59).

    Likewise, we cannot be forced into a relationship with the Son, Yeshua (Jesus).

    In the same way that Rebecca was asked if she would go with Abraham’s servant, the Holy Spirit (Ruach HaKodesh) asks us if we are willing to follow Him to be joined in a covenant of love with Yeshua.

    Traditionally, in preparation for the betrothal ceremony, the bride (kallah) and groom (chatan) are separately immersed in water in a ritual called the mikvah, which is symbolic of spiritual cleansing.

    In Matthew 3:13–17, we read that Yeshua has already been immersed (baptized) by Yochanan (John) in the waters of mikvah at the Jordan River.

    As the Bride-to-be, we are also asked to be immersed.

    “Whoever believes and is baptized [ritually immersed] will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.” (Mark 16:16)

    Erusin: The Betrothal
    “He who finds a wife finds what is good and receives favor from the Lord.” (Proverbs 18:22)

    After the immersion, the couple entered the huppah (marriage canopy)—symbolic of a new household being planned, to establish a binding contract.

    Here, the groom would give the bride money or a valuable object such as a ring, and a cup of wine was customarily shared to seal their covenant vows.

    In this public ceremony under the huppah, the couple entered into the betrothal period, which typically lasted for about a year. Although they were considered married, they did not live together or engage in sexual relations.

    To annul this contract, the couple would need a religious divorce (get), which had to be initiated by the husband.

    Matthew 1:18–25 provides an excellent example of this.

    During the erusin of Yosef (Joseph) and Miriam’s (Mary), Yosef discovered that Miriam was pregnant, and he considered divorcing her, although he had not yet brought her home as his wife.

    “… he had in mind to divorce her quietly. But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, ‘Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.’” (Matthew 1:19–20)

    During the erusin period, the groom was to prepare a place for his bride, while the bride focused on her personal preparations: wedding garments, lamps, etc.

    Although the bride knew to expect her groom after about a year, she did not know the exact day or hour. He could come earlier. It was the father of the groom who gave final approval for him to return to collect his bride.

    For that reason, the bride kept her oil lamps ready at all times, just in case the groom came in the night, sounding the shofar (ram’s horn) to lead the bridal procession to the home he had prepared for her.

    In the Parable of the Ten Virgins (Matthew 25:1–13), Yeshua (Jesus) likened the Kingdom of Heaven to this special period of erusin, when the groom comes for his bride:

    “At midnight the cry rang out: ‘Here’s the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!’ Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps.” (Matthew 25:6–7)

    So too today, in the season of Yeshua’s end-time return, we should be careful to remain alert and prepared for His coming, since Yeshua was speaking to His disciples prophetically about the condition of the Church in the last days.

    “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.” (Matthew 7: 21)

    Nissuin: The Marriage
    “And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.” (John 14:3)

    The final step in the Jewish wedding tradition is called nissuin (to take), a word that comes from naso, which means to lift up.

    At this time, the groom, with much noise, fanfare and romance, carried the bride home. Once again, the bride and groom would enter the huppah, recite a blessing over the wine (a symbol of joy), and finalize their vows

    Now finally, they would consummate their marriage and live together as husband and wife, fully partaking of all the duties and privileges of the covenant of marriage.

    Likewise, the Messiah, as the Bridegroom, has gone to prepare a place for us.

    The day of the return of the Messiah for His Bride is soon approaching.

    Although, we know approximately the time of His return from the signs of the times, “the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.” (2 Peter 3:10)

    The Bride (Believers in Yeshua) should be living consecrated lives, keeping themselves pure and holy in preparation for the Nissuin and the Wedding Feast of the Lamb, when the Groom comes with the blast of the shofar (1 Thessalonians 4: 16) to bring His Bride home.

    Traditional Jewish Marriages Today
    “Let the bridegroom leave his room and the bride her chamber [huppah].” (Joel 2:16)Today, in traditional Judaism, the erusin and the nissuin are combined into one.

    The bride and groom sign the marriage contract (ketubah) in the presence of the rabbi and two witnesses before the ceremony.

    Unlike a Christian wedding, where it’s generally taboo for the groom to see the bride before the ceremony, in a Jewish wedding, the groom must see his bride before the ceremony.

    Why? Remember the story of Laban, who tricked Jacob into marrying his eldest daughter, Leah, even though he loved Rachel?

    Since Jacob didn’t ensure the identity of his bride, he ended up marrying the woman he thought would be his sister-in-law, Leah. (Genesis 29:21–30)

    Although in ancient times, the wedding feast (seudah) after the nissuin might have included seven full days of food, music, dancing and celebrations (Judges 14:10–12), today the Jewish ceremony is usually followed by a wedding supper and reception with food, wine, music and dance!

    However, Orthodox Jews celebrate after the wedding for seven nights, with friends and family, hosting festive meals in honor of the bride and groom.

    The Marriage Supper of the Lamb
    “Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.” (Revelation 21: 1–2)

    When Messiah returns for us, and everything in the world today indicates that this will be very soon, we will celebrate the marriage supper of the Lamb with Him and our joy (simcha) will be beyond measure.

    But there will be those who won’t share in our simcha or celebrate with us because they do not know Yeshua!

    Now is the time to reach out to them, while we are still in the erusin period, before the Bridegroom comes.

    “Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. … The Spirit and the bride say, ‘Come!’ And let him who hears say, ‘Come!’ Whoever is thirsty, let him come.” (Revelation 22:12, 17)Ancient Jewish Wedding Customs and Yeshua's Second Coming | Messianic Bible

    hope this helps !!!




     
  16. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

    +2,266
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    That sums it up. You don’t care because you are determined to accommodate your biased doctrine at all costs and don’t want to be confused with the facts.
     
  17. SANTOSO

    SANTOSO Well-Known Member

    +1,020
    Indonesia
    Christian
    Married
    when you mention being saved again and again is meaningless that grieve the Lord.
     
  18. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

    +1,196
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Spot on brother !
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  19. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

    +6,837
    Christian
    Single
    I just told you I understand your facts completely...there is no confusion whatsoever, and please stop pretending there is, unless you can show me where I am confused and if you cannot, your post is not truthful.

    Where am I confused?

    Also, you tell me, did that believer fall away from his salvation, for whatever reason?
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020
  20. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

    +1,196
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    nowhere does it say the person who "believed" was ever saved. The devil "believes" as well is he saved ?

    In the parable you quoted( Luke 8 the soils) that belief had no works, it was a dead faith/belief.

    James 2
    Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

    18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

    19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

    20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

    21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

    22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

    23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

    24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

    25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

    26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
     
Loading...