What is the Big Secret About the Emmaus Walk? Need Advice!

[JohnGM10]

Indeed! And here you have highlighted just ONE of the problems with the Emmaus Walk, one which many Emmaus advocates really don't acknowledge. If one spouse does not want to go and the other does and is really into it, it automatically drives a wedge into the marriage. This may happen with other interests as well, but it is the secrecy involved which does the damage.

Oh I know the secrets are there only so as not to "spoil" the surprises, but is that worth the breakdown of relationships?

It is interesting to note that your wife's first action when realising there was a major problem, was to turn to the Emmaus Community saying that YOU had a problem. But in reality it is Emmaus which IS the problem.

The fact that a husband and wife cannot be together, even though Candlelight is supposed to show how much the pilgrim is loved, shows a clear priority of the Emmaus Walk over the love of a married couple. The person whom the pilgrim loves the most in the world is banned from the ceremony, and even if he/she was allowed to be there, is banned from speaking, touching or even interacting with the pilgrim at all!

Blessings to you and your wife for your faith in Him who restores all things!

I am sure 4THdayers will stay away from me. The question I ask is to hard to accept as a problem for their eyes are
blind.
Today is 01-08-2013 I can see that many are looking at this information. I cannot posting my e-mail address for people who are struggling . I will go to a WTE in March . I have other Christian things that stop me from going in February Like Youth Conclave and Living Waters For the World Clean WaterU Mission In the Yucatan Mexico. PhilG I think I know what you know so we are good . My wife has told me every thing Including the part about who shows up at candle liight so IF you are in conflict ,or not, Hippie , Contact me
I am John

 

[JohnGM10]

PhilG
I have not posted enough to this site to PM So the answer is I will keep you informed I have a YOuth Conclave ( no WTE Connection) that keeps me from the Febuary WTE but will make the April 25th I will share all that I know
My wife has told me everything she can think of about WTE As she should have day one. We are on the road to healing Look at my post on Topix I guess you are the same PhilG that is talking to Keith. Peace of Christ Be With You

 

[Phil G]

PhilG
I have not posted enough to this site to PM So the answer is I will keep you informed I have a YOuth Conclave ( no WTE Connection) that keeps me from the Febuary WTE but will make the April 25th I will share all that I know
My wife has told me everything she can think of about WTE As she should have day one. We are on the road to healing Look at my post on Topix I guess you are the same PhilG that is talking to Keith. Peace of Christ Be With You

Thanks John, Yes that's me!

 

[JohnGM10]

In the last Nine days 370 + People have looked at this post. You must have a question or some other though Please share or ask
JohnM

 

[JohnGM10]

To all who are watching this thread Keep looking.
689 in last 20 days .
IT will be April before I can attend the WTE . The relationship between my wife and I has improved greatly. Her view of WTE has not changed much and I do not expect 4th dayers to change . Once sold on the WTE idea they are sold.
Until someone they are close to or one of the people they sponsor has a major problem / break down at a WTE it is hard to get past the "feeling" they got.
Some good less good ?
I Am looking forward to getting to judge this program for ME.
And as Always
May the Peace of Christ Be With You
John

 

[theophilus40]

Here is some information about the Walk to Emmaus:

Encountering G12 - Analyzing the "Cellular Vision" of César Castellanos | Apologetics Index

 

[Phil G]

Here is some information about the Walk to Emmaus:


Although "Encountering G12" is not The Emmaus Walk, there are certainly some common techniques used.

In the "What is Emmaus?" booklet, Stephen D Byrant writes that pilgrims should plan to give themselves completely to the Emmaus Walk and that they need to be present for the whole weekend. They are apparently an "indispensable" member of the course and their table group. They can only have contact outside of the 3 day "community" in the case of an emergency.

The Team Manual describes how pilgrims will feel at different stages during the weekend - a clear indication of psychological and emotional manipulation.

How mature Christians can allow themselves be put in this position is difficult say. The only logical answer is brainwashing.

Encounter G12 certainly shows the techniques used are not unique to Emmaus and produce similar results, proving that emotions are the source of the "experiences".

 

[TheyCallMeDave]

Hi all I am in need of advice, and I realize this might be a sensitive (in the sense of security... I guess) topic, so I try to be tactful. I have a loved one that has been invited to "Walk to Emmaus". Since I never heard of such an event, I spent some time researching it. That's when a warning lights in my brain started to go off.

My number one concern is the secrecy (or rather, 'surprises') surrounding the event. That is the one thing that bothers me the most.

Based on personal experiences/testimonies I've read about online, 90% of the people have 'wonderful life changing experiences'. Now I'm not doubting the honesty and sincerity of these people, but the other 10% (these aren't actually numbers, but approximations based on googling) claim to have experienced pseudo-cultish activities, and even some claims of mild brain washing techniques.

While yes, I know you can't believe everything thats on the internet, this does give me pause for concern. If (that's a big if, I'm not making unfounded claims) brain washing tactics are used, 90% positive responses would be expected, as it would be an efficient brain washing program. The loved one planning to attend, is a strong christian, but I'm afraid, would be susceptible to emotional manipulation.

I wouldn't even ask about this and assume this is an excellent program, except it has been weighing on my heart and that stands out to me. What I am looking for is an objective explanation (ie not: it was wonderful, it changed my life, you'll have to experience it for yourself, etc etc) of what goes on at one of these retreats, even the "surprises". You won't be ruining anything for me, I don't plan on attending. I've pieced together some of what occurs at a "Walk to Emmaus", but I won't mention it here, as I don't know what is supoosed to be a "surprise". If you want to tell me in PM, so it isn't on the boards, and a minimal amount of "surprise ruining" occurs, feel free. Or, I will provide my email address (I don't think I can PM yet, as I am a new forum goer).

If this is truly a God-blessed program, please help subside my doubts and fears. Many thanks!

Im actually going on my Emmaus Walk starting thursday of this week for 3 days, so, i can let you know next week how it was...or...as much as im permitted to . I doubt very very much that there is any cultish occurences since its mainstream protestant denominations (in particular , Methodist) that hosts these. Ive not heard on bad thing about it . I do expect it to be filled with personal discipline , and that is a good thing.

 

[Phil G]

Im actually going on my Emmaus Walk starting thursday of this week for 3 days, so, i can let you know next week how it was...or...as much as im permitted to . I doubt very very much that there is any cultish occurences since its mainstream protestant denominations (in particular , Methodist) that hosts these. Ive not heard on bad thing about it . I do expect it to be filled with personal discipline , and that is a good thing.

You have just given a clue to cultish occurances. Revealing "as much as you're permitted to" is hardly the actions of mainsteam Christianity. Being that secretive comes between people.

During the weekend, pilgrims are led through a candlelight procession where members of the Emmaus Community are singing a song to the pilgrims. This is supposed to show how much God loves you but unless your loved ones are part of the Emmaus Community, they will be banned from it. The Emmaus Community who are there won't be permitted to interact with you in any way and then you will led away after experiencing an emotional high, or not now I have ruined it for you! That is cultish behaviour.

 

[TheyCallMeDave]

You have just given a clue to cultish occurances. Revealing "as much as you're permitted to" is hardly the actions of mainsteam Christianity. Being that secretive comes between people.

During the weekend, pilgrims are led through a candlelight procession where members of the Emmaus Community are singing a song to the pilgrims. This is supposed to show how much God loves you but unless your loved ones are part of the Emmaus Community, they will be banned from it. The Emmaus Community who are there won't be permitted to interact with you in any way and then you will led away after experiencing an emotional high, or not now I have ruined it for you! That is cultish behaviour.

a. I said 'as much as im permitted to' , to mean that they dont want it spoiled for new people considering the Walk ; and i can appreciate that completely. Its a shame you view that as a power n control thing over people.

b. Dont contemporary Christian Artists sometimes sing their songs directed toward Us as the Body of Believers ? (Yes). And the lyrics are about Gods love for Us.

c. Despite your efforts, no...you have not ruined it for me.

 

[Phil G]

a. I said 'as much as im permitted to' , to mean that they dont want it spoiled for new people considering the Walk ; and i can appreciate that completely. Its a shame you view that as a power n control thing over people.

b. Dont contemporary Christian Artists sometimes sing their songs directed toward Us as the Body of Believers ? (Yes). And the lyrics are about Gods love for Us.

c. Despite your efforts, no...you have not ruined it for me.

I will take your second point first. Yes Christian artists sing songs directed to the BODY OF BELIEVERS. But Emmaus only allow those who are in the Emmaus Community to attend Emmaus events regardless of membership of the body of believers. In that way it is exclusive to non-Emmaus Community Christians.

If the person who you love most in the world is a Christian believer but not a member of the greater Emmaus Community, he/she will be banned from Emmaus Community events unless specifically invited by the Emmaus Community. You will never hear "All are Welcome" when it comes to Emmaus.

The other cultish behaviour of this moment is the candlelight procession while not allowing any interaction with between the Emmaus Community who are singing and the pilgrims. It is a highly emotionally charged atmosphere and Emmaus regards it is th pivoting moment of the weekend.

Your first point misses the fact that the Upper Room regards secrecy as a problem but blames it on pilgrims rather than the program.

To quote directly from their own publication "What is Emmaus?" on page 30 "Sometimes people who have attended Emmaus do not reveal aspects of the three-day event so as not to spoil the experience for others. But as this booklet illustrates, nothing that occurs in Emmaus is secret. This witholding of information creates an air of secrecy that hurts the program and sets Emmaus participants apart in the church."

So even Emmaus would accept my point but blames it on pilgrims. The fact that the booklet does not mention anything about those things which Emmaus pilgrims are keeping secret shows a certain hipocracy on the part of Emmaus.

Your third point should be reserved until after the walk. My "efforts" are merely informing people of the "non-secretive" secrets of Emmaus.

 

[HIS Geeky Girl]

I'd never heard of this "Emmaus" stuff. A quick search online just reveals that it's a weekend event used by churches as sort of a brief get-away or retreat to build faith, have fellowship, evangelize, etc. Doesn't seem (at first glance, anyway) like anything too different from your average weekend church event or retreat. All of this stuff about secrecy, control, exclusion... is a surprise to me. And pretty creepy. There's no way I would go to something like this.

On the contrary, my church is a G12 church. "G12" simply means that the churches are based on the concept of discipling, small groups, and planting new churches in areas with the most need. We have lots of weekend "encounters" for men, women, and kids. There's nothing weird, controlling, or manipulative about any of it. It's a time of music, praise, worship, prayer, fun, fellowship. Nothing more, nothing secretive, nothing weird.

From the web: The G12 Vision is a strategy for Christian evangelism to fulfill the Great Commission. It is founded upon the idea that every Christian can mentor and lead twelve people in the Christian faith, following the example of Jesus.

Comparing G12 churches to this Emmaus stuff is pretty inaccurate. If someone else has had a negative experience from a G12 group, that's unfortunate.

 

[Phil G]

I'd never heard of this "Emmaus" stuff. A quick search online just reveals that it's a weekend event used by churches as sort of a brief get-away or retreat to build faith, have fellowship, evangelize, etc. Doesn't seem (at first glance, anyway) like anything too different from your average weekend church event or retreat. All of this stuff about secrecy, control, exclusion... is a surprise to me. And pretty creepy. There's no way I would go to something like this.

On the contrary, my church is a G12 church. "G12" simply means that the churches are based on the concept of discipling, small groups, and planting new churches in areas with the most need. We have lots of weekend "encounters" for men, women, and kids. There's nothing weird, controlling, or manipulative about any of it. It's a time of music, praise, worship, prayer, fun, fellowship. Nothing more, nothing secretive, nothing weird.

From the web: The G12 Vision is a strategy for Christian evangelism to fulfill the Great Commission. It is founded upon the idea that every Christian can mentor and lead twelve people in the Christian faith, following the example of Jesus.

Comparing G12 churches to this Emmaus stuff is pretty inaccurate. If someone else has had a negative experience from a G12 group, that's unfortunate.

I don't know enough about G12 to comment too much. I have only read the link posted by a previous poster. So you may well be right.

The problem with Emmaus is not their stated goal which is noble, but the methods used. The emotional experience based weekend (which is why some are adamant about keeping the secrets) and the fact that you join an exclusive greater community with which local Emmaus communities sign a covenant has the effect that pilgrims come back from the weekend promoting Emmaus in their local church to such an extent that those who don't wish to go feel left out and isolated. The impression is given that they lack a blessing which they can only get by going to Emmaus.

Pilgrims are encouraged to get heavily involved in their local church but with an emphasis on spiritual growth within the Emmaus Community. This effectively makes local churches vulnerable to the influence of Emmmaus.

Many issues come to light if people take the time to investigate the Emmaus Walk rather than trusting in others. That is what the Bereans did - they didn't trust the messenger but checked it out for themselves.

The fact that you can't find many details on the web should give pause for thought. That's what it did for me. The more difficult it was to find the info, the more I dug. There were enough people on forums who had major problems with it to warrant a closer look.

 

[HIS Geeky Girl]

That is seriously disturbing, I would NEVER be involved in something like that. Any church that promotes anything - any book, any preacher, any theology, any catch phrase - above God Himself, should be avoided.

 

[Phil G]

That is seriously disturbing, I would NEVER be involved in something like that. Any church that promotes anything - any book, any preacher, any theology, any catch phrase - above God Himself, should be avoided.

It is interesting that you say that. One of the quotes from the Emmaus publication "What is Emmaus?" is to plan to "give yourself completely to the Emmaus Walk".

While this not elevating itself above God, it's certainly equating itself to God. Some may argue that by giving yourself completely to Emmaus, you are giving yourself completely to God. That's tantamount to blasphemy in my view.

So I agree with you, it is disturbing.

 

[HIS Geeky Girl]

I say it's blasphemy. When I read that phrase in a post above, that was the FIRST thing that came to my mind. NO, you don't "give yourself" to anyone or anything but God and God alone!

 

[TheyCallMeDave]

I will take your second point first. Yes Christian artists sing songs directed to the BODY OF BELIEVERS. But Emmaus only allow those who are in the Emmaus Community to attend Emmaus events regardless of membership of the body of believers. In that way it is exclusive to non-Emmaus Community Christians.

If the person who you love most in the world is a Christian believer but not a member of the greater Emmaus Community, he/she will be banned from Emmaus Community events unless specifically invited by the Emmaus Community. You will never hear "All are Welcome" when it comes to Emmaus.

The other cultish behaviour of this moment is the candlelight procession while not allowing any interaction with between the Emmaus Community who are singing and the pilgrims. It is a highly emotionally charged atmosphere and Emmaus regards it is th pivoting moment of the weekend.

Your first point misses the fact that the Upper Room regards secrecy as a problem but blames it on pilgrims rather than the program.

To quote directly from their own publication "What is Emmaus?" on page 30 "Sometimes people who have attended Emmaus do not reveal aspects of the three-day event so as not to spoil the experience for others. But as this booklet illustrates, nothing that occurs in Emmaus is secret. This witholding of information creates an air of secrecy that hurts the program and sets Emmaus participants apart in the church."

So even Emmaus would accept my point but blames it on pilgrims. The fact that the booklet does not mention anything about those things which Emmaus pilgrims are keeping secret shows a certain hipocracy on the part of Emmaus.

Your third point should be reserved until after the walk. My "efforts" are merely informing people of the "non-secretive" secrets of Emmaus.

Well, next Monday i shall be pleased to give my thoughts and opinion of the Emmaus Walk i went on which starts tonight. . But right now, I suspect that you are being too critical of the event . We shall see.

 

[Phil G]

Well, next Monday i shall be pleased to give my thoughts and opinion of the Emmaus Walk i went on which starts tonight. . But right now, I suspect that you are being too critical of the event . We shall see.

You obviously won't see this until after your weekend but I will post this anyway. Most people who defend Emmaus do it on the basis of their experiences without much regard to what is written by Emmaus. Apparently experience overrules the written word.

Personally I cannot see how any Bible believing Christian could defend the statement by Stephen D Byrant in the Upper Room's own publication to "Come with empty hands and open hearts, planning to give yourself completely to the Emmaus Walk". It is not possible to be too critical about it!

It is anti-Scripture and there can be no dispute about that. The Bible says we are to guard our hearts, to test everything and to submit ourselves to God. Yet Emmaus want us, without guarding our hearts and without testing, to give ourselves completely to Emmaus!

 

[TheyCallMeDave]

You obviously won't see this until after your weekend but I will post this anyway. Most people who defend Emmaus do it on the basis of their experiences without much regard to what is written by Emmaus. Apparently experience overrules the written word.

Personally I cannot see how any Bible believing Christian could defend the statement by Stephen D Byrant in the Upper Room's own publication to "Come with empty hands and open hearts, planning to give yourself completely to the Emmaus Walk". It is not possible to be too critical about it!

It is anti-Scripture and there can be no dispute about that. The Bible says we are to guard our hearts, to test everything and to submit ourselves to God. Yet Emmaus want us, without guarding our hearts and without testing, to give ourselves completely to Emmaus!

Well, i have another 30 min. before i leave for the car ride . As for the Upper Room quote....how come youre not interpreting that to mean : Come with you hands and hearts open to what God has in store for you while on the Emmaus Walk ? This would seem to be the most logical interpretation since its designed to be a spiritual walk with God .

I think there is a very good chance that you calling Emmaus 'anti-scriptural' isnt going to be accurate . I suspect that the Emmaus Walk i go on is going to be filled with studying scripture since they asked us to be sure and bring our Bibles and notebooks, and in addition i expect it to be good fellowship and a deepened time with The Lord without any outside interruptions such as cell phones ringing or laptops beeping that you have mail.

I have a distinct feeling that i will either find your assertions about Emmaus to be miscontrued, misunderstood, and having an axe to grind for some possible undisclosed personal motive....or..... it will be a combination of intense Bible study and fellowship with some extraneous things to coincide with the theme of getting closer to God and possibly Others .

At any rate...if there is the cultish aura associated with it, i shall leave the Walk as im not too proud to hang it out if something is anti biblical. Ill report back on Monday morning my personal findings of my Emmaus Walk.

 

[Phil G]

Well, i have another 30 min. before i leave for the car ride . As for the Upper Room quote....how come youre not interpreting that to mean : Come with you hands and hearts open to what God has in store for you while on the Emmaus Walk ? This would seem to be the most logical interpretation since its designed to be a spiritual walk with God .

I think there is a very good chance that you calling Emmaus 'anti-scriptural' isnt going to be accurate . I suspect that the Emmaus Walk i go on is going to be filled with studying scripture since they asked us to be sure and bring our Bibles and notebooks, and in addition i expect it to be good fellowship and a deepened time with The Lord without any outside interruptions such as cell phones ringing or laptops beeping that you have mail.

I have a distinct feeling that i will either find your assertions about Emmaus to be miscontrued, misunderstood, and having an axe to grind for some possible undisclosed personal motive....or..... it will be a combination of intense Bible study and fellowship with some extraneous things to coincide with the theme of getting closer to God and possibly Others .

At any rate...if there is the cultish aura associated with it, i shall leave the Walk as im not too proud to hang it out if something is anti biblical. Ill report back on Monday morning my personal findings of my Emmaus Walk.

Well this time we will have to wait till you are back to continue and I honestly do hope your experience is truly from God.

The reason I don't interpret the quote as giving yourself completely to what God has in store for you while on the Emmaus Walk is simply because that is not what it says. It says to give yourself completely to the Emmaus Walk. Period. It is only a logical interpretation if you don't question the motives behind it. I do question the motives behind it and just because it is "mainstream" Christian event does not mean I trust it. Some cults originated in mainstream churches.

If you read all the by-laws and principles and rules and covenants and agreements laid out by Emmaus, you will see that it is a very carefully structured program. Do you really think that they would leave something like that quote which says something very definite if it wasn't what they meant?

Emmaus do not want you questioning anything that goes on as they say it is not for theological debate and you are expected to be involved in all of the 72 hours as, again according to the "What is Emmaus?" booklet, you are "indispensable" to the program and your table group.

My "axe" that I am grinding is simply the hurt and division that Emmaus has caused in churches which you can see on the various forums. Added to that is the fact that Emmaus is promoted aggressively in churches and some of those commenting on forums have felt pressured to go even when they have refused.
The booklet backs this up as the Emmaus Community want the program pushed in churches.

When I first heard of this program, I wanted to know what it was about but could find little information anywhere. That is when I ran into the secrecy and that is what drove me to investigate further. Simply put, I will not get involved in any weekend that requires such secrecy. And that's when I started reading the Upper Room's own material and with every page read, it got worse!

So I await your return and maybe we will still be at odds. I will have some challenging questions for you. But a great emotional experience won't help any because there are many with bad emotional experiences at Emmaus as well. And that is why I concentrate on the "why" instead of the experience.