Walk through if I have it wrong, Ezekiel 38-39

[Douggg]

Good, at least we agree on the most important part



Depends on the identity of Gog and his multitude, right? Who is Gog?

Ezekiel 38:2 Son of man, set your face toward Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him

Ezekiel 39:1 And you, son of man, prophesy against Gog and say, Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I am against you, O Gog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal

Did Gog exist during the time of Ezekiel? Is Gog solely a future human ruler? Is Gog Satan? Is Gog the beast? Is Gog the antichrist?

Are there scriptures that help us identify Gog, outside of Ezekiel?




Depends on the identity of Gog, right? We would probably need to agree on the identity before we can somehow attempt to "prove it".



Absolutely agree. So let's not speculate if we can help, but use scripture to interpret scripture.

If we look first at Ezekiel 38, we see Gog, of Magog, will lead a horde that covers the land against God's people. Then we see in Revelation, that after the 1000 years, Satan leads an army from the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, across the plain of the earth against God's people. With this, we can see that Satan has to do with Gog and Magog and hordes of armies. Ezekiel has Gog as the leader, and revelation has Satan as the leader. Thus, this would be evidence that Satan is Gog or related to Gog.

Ezekiel 38:2,8-9 Son of man, set your face toward Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him. After many days you will be mustered. In the latter years you will go against the land that is restored from war, the land whose people were gathered from many peoples upon the mountains of Israel, which had been a continual waste. Its people were brought out from the peoples and now dwell securely, all of them. You will advance, coming on like a storm. You will be like a cloud covering the land, you and all your hordes, and many peoples with you.

Revelation 20:7-9 And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them

Using Peter and Paul we can see that the destruction of Satan was still future to them in the first century.

1 peter 5:8 Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

2 thessalonians 2:9 The coming of the lawless is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders,

Romans 16:20 The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.
________________________________________________________________________________

When we turn to Ezekiel 39 we see that God brings Gog from "uttermost" parts of the North against Israel, and on the mountains of Israel is where God strikes them down to be given to the Birds and Beasts. This is mentioned in Revelation, where Jesus defeats the Beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies. Thus, this would be evidence that Gog is related to the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies.

Ezekiel 39:2-4,17 And I will turn you about and drive you forward, and bring you up from the uttermost parts of the north, and lead you against the mountains of Israel. Then I will strike your bow from your left hand, and will make your arrows drop out of your right hand. You shall fall on the mountains of Israel, you and all your hordes and the peoples who are with you. I will give you to birds of prey of every sort and to the beasts of the field to be devoured. As for you, son of man, thus says the Lord God: Speak to the birds of every sort and to all beasts of the field: ‘Assemble and come, gather from all around to the sacrificial feast that I am preparing for you

Revelation 19:15-19 From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rulec them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords. Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and with a loud voice he called to all the birds that fly directly overhead, “Come, gather for the great supper of God, to eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all men, both free and slave,d both small and great.” And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against him who was sitting on the horse and against his army.

We can see that Jesus defeats them (the beast, the kings of the earth, and their amries) with the Gospel in revelation.

Revelation 19:15,21 From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. And the rest were slain by the sword that came from the mouth of him who was sitting on the horse, and all the birds were gorged with their flesh.

Hebrews 4:12-13 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

We can see that the kings of the earth and rulers set out against God, through the crucifixion of Christ.
Acts 4:25-28 who through the mouth of our father David, your servant, said by the Holy Spirit,
“‘Why did the Gentiles rage, and the peoples plot in vain? The kings of the earth set themselves,
and the rulers were gathered together, against the Lord and against his Anointed’—for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place

And through the work of the Cross and Gospel, God disarmed and triumphed over the rulers and authorities. He destroyed the works of Devil. He bound the strong man.

Colossians 2:14-15 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.

1 John 3:9 The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil

We can even see the words of eternal life in Ezekiel 39.

Ezekiel 39:19 And you shall eat fat till you are filled, and drink blood till you are drunk, at the sacrificial feast that I am preparing for you

John 6:54-56 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.

______________________________________________________________________________

So what does Ezekiel 38-39 this point to?

1.) the identity of Gog
As revealed by revelation, Gog is associated with Satan, the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies.

2.) The triumph of God over Gog through his sacrifice
Jesus, who the kings and rulers of the earth set out against through the power of satan, as predestined by God, disarmed and triumphed over them through the Gospel.



I actually agree.

I believe the judgment of Gog began at the cross

John 12:31-32 Now judgment is upon this world; now the prince of this world will be cast out. And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”

The holy spirit was poured out on Israel after the cross.

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

Taking everything you have written and believe into account, what is your walk through outline for Ezekiel 38-39?

I am looking for something from you like this... or do you agree with my outline walk though?

Israel will be living at rest and safely before Gog/Magog takes place, Ezekiel 38:8-11
Gog/Magog takes place - Ezekiel 38
Gog's army is destroyed - Ezekiel 39:4
Then the cleanup, followed by 7 years - Ezekiel 39:9-16
Then those 7 years (the great tribulation takes place during the second half of the 7 years)
Then Armageddon - Ezekiel 39:17-20
Jesus returned to earth - Ezekiel 39:21-29.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Douggg said: ↑Here's mine again...Israel will be living at rest and safely before Gog/Magog takes place, Ezekiel 38:8-11
Gog/Magog takes place - Ezekiel 38
Then Armageddon - Ezekiel 39:17-20
Jesus returned to earth - Ezekiel 39:21-29.

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑

How about responding to my post #89
I got a lot more to add...........

I didn't noticed an outline walk through of Ezekiel 38-39... for me to respond to.
Give me something like this.
Israel will be living at rest and safely before Gog/Magog takes place, Ezekiel 38:8-11
Gog/Magog takes place - Ezekiel 38
Then Armageddon - Ezekiel 39:17-20
Jesus returned to earth - Ezekiel 39:21-29.

Armageddon is BEFORE the 1000yr period.

2 Peter 3:12
Hoping<4328> and hastening<4892> the parousia<2952> of the day of the GOD,
thru which the heavens being fired<4448> shall be being dissolved/loosed<3089> and elements<4747> by burning is being melted<5080>

Revelation 16:
14 For they are spirits of demons doing signs, which are going-out upon the kings of the whole home-land<3625>,
to-be-together-leading/mobilizing/sunagagein <4863> (5629) them into the Battle of the great Day of the God the Almighty.
16 And they together-leading/mobilize/sunagagein <4863> (5629) them into the Place, the being called to Hebrew Armageddwn<717>

Revelation 20:8
and he shall be coming out<1831> to deceive<4105> the nations, the ones in the Four Corners of the land, the Gog and Magog
to be together-leading/mobilizing/sunagagein <4863> (5629) them into the Battle, of which the Number of them as the Sand<285> of the Se<2281>a.[Ezekiel 7:1-2]

Seems as if you and keras read the same Bible......

The Biblical story, not overlaid with preconceived ideas:
Gog invades the holy Land, not long recovered from being burned over and depopulated by the Day of the Lord's fiery wrath; the Sixth Seal event, many years before the glorious Return and Armageddon.
The Lord's holy people, every faithful Christian, will live there, trusting in the Lord for their protection. And He does that, by destroying Gog and his army without the Lord's people firing a shot. Joel 2:20

Let me remind you of Peters warning:

2 Peter 3:16
As also in all the letters, speaking in them about these-things; in which are difficult to understand
any which the unlearned and unsteadfast are wresting/twisting, as also the rest of Writings,
toward the own of them destruction/apwleian <684>. [# 684 used revelation 17:8, 11]

.

 

[parousia70]

Put your question within the context of Ezekiel 38-39.

I did.
Since when do you need historical verification of an event having come to pass in order for you to subscribe to the belief that said event did indeed come to pass?

What makes the events of Ezekiel 38/39 any different or having any greater requirement of historical verification to you than any of the other myriad texts that you personally subscribe to as fulfilled, in Total and complete absence of any such historical verification?

Why do you place a higher threshold upon Ezekiel 38-39 than you do so many other scriptures?

I’m guessing you have a reason for this personal inconsistency? I’m simply wondering what reason it could possibly be?

 

[Douggg]

Armageddon is BEFORE the 1000yr period.

Revelation 16:
14 For they are spirits of demons doing signs, which are going-out upon the kings of the whole home-land<3625>,
to-be-together-leading/mobilizing/sunagagein <4863> (5629) them into the Battle of the great Day of the God the Almighty.
16 And they together-leading/mobilize/sunagagein <4863> (5629) them into the Place, the being called to Hebrew Armageddwn<717>

Revelation 20:8
and he shall be coming out<1831> to deceive<4105> the nations, the ones in the Four Corners of the land, the Gog and Magog
to be together-leading/mobilizing/sunagagein <4863> (5629) them into the Battle, of which the Number of them as the Sand<285> of the Se<2281>a.[Ezekiel 7:1-2]

Seems as if you and keras read the same Bible......
Let me remind you of Peters warning:

2 Peter 3:16
As also/and in all the letters, speaking in them about these-things; in which are difficult to understand any which the unlearned and unsteadfast are wresting/twisting
as also the rest of Writings,
toward the own of them destruction/apwleian <684>. [# 684 used reve 17:8, 11]

You are giving me verses which you have attached your understanding to, but really haven't expressed in context of Ezekiel 38-39.

What I am leaving to you is to incorporate whatever you believe, from whatever supporting verses you want, in a walk through outline of Ezekiel 38-39 that you come up with.

I don't want to respond outside of the context of Ezekiel 38-39. Because the discussion gets fragmented and goes off into all kinds of different directions.

This thread is about Ezekiel 38-39, if I am wrong in my walk through outline, then provide your walk through outline which you believe to be right.

I am looking for something like this:

Israel will be living at rest and safely before Gog/Magog takes place, Ezekiel 38:8-11
Gog/Magog takes place - Ezekiel 38
Gog's army is destroyed - Ezekiel 39:4
Then the cleanup, followed by 7 years - Ezekiel 39:9-16
Then those 7 years (the great tribulation takes place during the second half of the 7 years)
Then Armageddon - Ezekiel 39:17-20
Jesus returned to earth - Ezekiel 39:21-29.

 

[claninja]

Following the text of Ezekiel 38-39, walk me through the text of why I have it wrong. And why you may think this is part or all history.

Here is what I say, to happen during your lifetime...

Gog/Magog takes place - Ezekiel 38
Gog's army is destroyed - Ezekiel 39:4
Then the cleanup, followed by 7 years - Ezekiel 39:9-16
Then those 7 years
Then Armageddon - Ezekiel 39:17-20
Jesus returned to earth - Ezekiel 39:21-29.

Israel gathered back to the land-Ezekiel 38:8, Ezekiel 39:27-28

Gog being brought against Israel that is now dwelling in the land - Ezekiel 38:1-18 ; Ezekiel 39:1-2

Judgment on Gog/vindicating His holiness- Ezekiel 38:21-22 ; Ezekiel 39:3-8, 17-20

Burning weapons, burying Gog, cleansing the land, putting away sin, receiving the spirit - Ezekiel 39:7-16,21-29

Where do you place Ezekiel 39 verse 7, because Ezekiel 43 has this event occurring when God sits in the Ezekiel temple?

Ezekiel 39:7 And my holy name I will make known in the midst of my people Israel, and I will not let my holy name be profaned anymore.

Ezekiel 43:7and he said to me, “Son of man, this is the place of my throne and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the people of Israel forever. And the house of Israel shall no more defile my holy name, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoring and by the dead bodiesb of their kings at their high places

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

You are giving me verses which you have attached your understanding to, but really haven't expressed in context of Ezekiel 38-39.

What I am leaving to you is to incorporate whatever you believe, from whatever supporting verses you want, in a walk through outline of Ezekiel 38-39 that you come up with.
I don't want to respond outside of the context of Ezekiel 38-39.

Ok let's post the complete 2 chapters and then go verse by verse, comparing them to the rest of the OT and to the NT.
Then for each verse, compare different Bible versions.
This is from the WEB

Ezekiel 38:1 BIBLEHUB

(WEB) Ezekiel 38:

1The word of Yahweh came to me, saying, 2Son of man, set your face toward Gog, of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal, and prophesy against him, 3and say, Thus says the Lord Yahweh: Behold, I am against you, Gog, prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal:
4and I will turn you around, and put hooks into your jaws, and I will bring you forth, with all your army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed in full armor, a great company with buckler and shield, all of them handling swords; 5Persia, Cush, and Put with them, all of them with shield and helmet; 6Gomer, and all his hordes; the house of Togarmah in the uttermost parts of the north, and all his hordes; even many peoples with you.

7Be prepared, yes, prepare yourself, you, and all your companies who are assembled to you, and be a guard to them. 8After many days you shall be visited: in the latter years you shall come into the land that is brought back from the sword, that is gathered out of many peoples, on the mountains of Israel, which have been a continual waste; but it is brought forth out of the peoples, and they shall dwell securely, all of them. 9You shall ascend, you shall come like a storm, you shall be like a cloud to cover the land, you, and all your hordes, and many peoples with you.

10Thus says the Lord Yahweh: It shall happen in that day, that things shall come into your mind, and you shall devise an evil device: 11and you shall say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to those who are at rest, who dwell securely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates; 12to take the spoil and to take the prey; to turn your hand against the waste places that are [now] inhabited, and against the people who are gathered out of the nations, who have gotten livestock and goods, who dwell in the middle of the earth. 13Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions of it, shall tell you, Have you come to take the spoil? have you assembled your company to take the prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away livestock and goods, to take great spoil?

14Therefore, son of man, prophesy, and tell Gog, Thus says the Lord Yahweh: In that day when my people Israel dwells securely, shall you not know it? 15You shall come from your place out of the uttermost parts of the north, you, and many peoples with you, all of them riding on horses, a great company and a mighty army; 16and you shall come up against my people Israel, as a cloud to cover the land: it shall happen in the latter days, that I will bring you against my land, that the nations may know me, when I shall be sanctified in you, Gog, before their eyes.

17Thus says the Lord Yahweh: Are you he of whom I spoke in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, who prophesied in those days for [many] years that I would bring you against them? 18It shall happen in that day, when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, says the Lord Yahweh, that my wrath shall come up into my nostrils. 19For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; 20so that the fish of the sea, and the birds of the sky, and the animals of the field, and all creeping things who creep on the earth, and all the men who are on the surface of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground. 21I will call for a sword against him to all my mountains, says the Lord Yahweh: every man's sword shall be against his brother. 22With pestilence and with blood will I enter into judgment with him; and I will rain on him, and on his hordes, and on the many peoples who are with him, an overflowing shower, and great hailstones, fire, and sulfur. 23I will magnify myself, and sanctify myself, and I will make myself known in the eyes of many nations; and they shall know that I am Yahweh.

Ezekiel 39:1 BIBLEHUB

(WEB) Ezekiel 39:

1You, son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus says the Lord Yahweh: Behold, I am against you, Gog, prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal: 2and I will turn you around, and will lead you on, and will cause you to come up from the uttermost parts of the north; and I will bring you on the mountains of Israel; 3and I will strike your bow out of your left hand, and will cause your arrows to fall out of your right hand. 4You shall fall on the mountains of Israel, you, and all your hordes, and the peoples who are with you: I will give you to the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the animals of the field to be devoured. 5You shall fall on the open field; for I have spoken it, says the Lord Yahweh. 6I will send a fire on Magog, and on those who dwell securely in the islands; and they shall know that I am Yahweh.

7My holy name will I make known in the midst of my people Israel; neither will I allow my holy name to be profaned any more: and the nations shall know that I am Yahweh, the Holy One in Israel. 8Behold, it comes, and it shall be done, says the Lord Yahweh; this is the day about which I have spoken.

9Those who dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall make fires of the weapons and burn them, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the war clubs, and the spears, and they shall make fires of them seven years; 10so that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall make fires of the weapons; and they shall plunder those who plundered them, and rob those who robbed them, says the Lord Yahweh.

11It shall happen in that day, that I will give to Gog a place for burial in Israel, the valley of those who pass through on the east of the sea; and it shall stop those who pass through: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude; and they shall call it The valley of Hamon Gog. 12Seven months shall the house of Israel be burying them, that they may cleanse the land. 13Yes, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown in the day that I shall be glorified, says the Lord Yahweh. 14They shall set apart men of continual employment, who shall pass through the land, and, with those who pass through, those who bury those who remain on the surface of the land, to cleanse it: after the end of seven months shall they search. 15Those who pass through the land shall pass through; and when any sees a man's bone, then shall he set up a sign by it, until the undertakers have buried it in the valley of Hamon Gog. 16Hamonah shall also be the name of a city. Thus shall they cleanse the land.

17You, son of man, thus says the Lord Yahweh: Speak to the birds of every sort, and to every animal of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice on the mountains of Israel, that you may eat flesh and drink blood. 18You shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bulls, all of them fatlings of Bashan. 19You shall eat fat until you be full, and drink blood until you are drunk, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you. 20You shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, says the Lord Yahweh.

21I will set my glory among the nations; and all the nations shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid on them. 22So the house of Israel shall know that I am Yahweh their God, from that day and forward. 23The nations shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity; because they trespassed against me, and I hid my face from them: so I gave them into the hand of their adversaries, and they fell all of them by the sword. 24According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions did I to them; and I hid my face from them.

25Therefore thus says the Lord Yahweh: Now will I bring back the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy on the whole house of Israel; and I will be jealous for my holy name. 26They shall bear their shame, and all their trespasses by which they have trespassed against me, when they shall dwell securely in their land, and none shall make them afraid; 27when I have brought them back from the peoples, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations. 28They shall know that I am Yahweh their God, in that I caused them to go into captivity among the nations, and have gathered them to their own land; and I will leave none of them any more there; 29neither will I hide my face any more from them; for I have poured out my Spirit on the house of Israel, says the Lord Yahweh.

 

[Douggg]

Seems as if you and keras read the same Bible......

Other than different translations, Keras uses ESV and I use the KJV, we all read from the same bible - but we process what we read differently.

 

[claninja]

Jesus returned to earth - Ezekiel 39:21-29.

The spirit was poured out at Pentecost in the first century, about 10 days after Jesus ascended. Thus Ezekiel 39:29 was fulfilled a long time ago, but you include it in the 2nd coming.

Ezekiel 39:29 And I will no longer hide My face from them, for I will pour out My Spirit on the house of Israel,’ declares the Lord GOD.”

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

 

[DavidPT]

Armageddon is BEFORE the 1000yr period.

Many, so not all, non Premils, such as amils, I think typically conclude that it's the other way around. If you are agreeing with what you stated here, this seems to indicate that you agree the thousand years happens after Christ's return then. If Armageddon happens in the end of this age, where Christ's return soon follows, and that Armegeddon is before the thousand year period, how can the thousand year period possibly not be after the 2nd coming in that case, thus Premil? It's hard for me to make heads or tales as to what camp you are mainly in. By camps I'm mainly referring to either Preterist, Amil, Premil, or Postmil. I think Preterists can also be Amil, but I'm not certain they can also be Premil. Not meaning partial Preterists though, since they can be both Amil and Premil.

 

[Douggg]

Ok let's post the complete 2 chapters and then go verse by verse, comparing them to the rest of the OT and to the NT.

I would like to see your outline walk through of Ezekiel 38-39 first.

 

[Douggg]

Israel gathered back to the land-Ezekiel 38:8, Ezekiel 39:27-28

Gog being brought against Israel that is now dwelling in the land - Ezekiel 38:1-18 ; Ezekiel 39:1-2

Judgment on Gog/vindicating His holiness- Ezekiel 38:21-22 ; Ezekiel 39:3-8, 17-20

Burning weapons, burying Gog, cleansing the land, putting away sin, receiving the spirit - Ezekiel 39:7-16,21-29

Where do you place Ezekiel 39 verse 7, because Ezekiel 43 has this event occurring when God sits in the Ezekiel temple?

Ezekiel 39:7 And my holy name I will make known in the midst of my people Israel, and I will not let my holy name be profaned anymore.

Ezekiel 43:7and he said to me, “Son of man, this is the place of my throne and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the people of Israel forever. And the house of Israel shall no more defile my holy name, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoring and by the dead bodiesb of their kings at their high places

Where are you reading anything in the text about Gog between Ezekiel 39:17-29? For those verses to be about Gog/Magog?

Gog's army was already destroyed in Ezekiel 39:4.

Where do you place

Ezekiel 39 verse 7, because Ezekiel 43 has this event occurring when God sits in the Ezekiel temple?

7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

There are many in Israel who are non-religious, highly secular, which following Gog/Magog that will not be the case. Regarding the heathen, this imo is aimed directly as the muslims'claim of the God of the bible to be Allah of Islam. Which is a lie. Following Gog/Magog, Islam will be a discredited religion, and will end.

 

[Douggg]

The spirit was poured out at Pentecost in the first century, about 10 days after Jesus ascended. Thus Ezekiel 39:29 was fulfilled a long time ago, but you include it in the 2nd coming.

Ezekiel 39:29 And I will no longer hide My face from them, for I will pour out My Spirit on the house of Israel,’ declares the Lord GOD.”

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

Ezekiel 39:29 takes place after Gog/Magog which takes place in the latter years (end times).

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Douggg said: ↑
I didn't noticed an outline walk through of Ezekiel 38-39... for me to respond to.
Give me something like this.
Israel will be living at rest and safely before Gog/Magog takes place, Ezekiel 38:8-11
Gog/Magog takes place - Ezekiel 38
Then Armageddon - Ezekiel 39:17-20
Jesus returned to earth - Ezekiel 39:21-29.

keras said: ↑
The Biblical story, not overlaid with preconceived ideas:
Gog invades the holy Land, not long recovered from being burned over and depopulated by the Day of the Lord's fiery wrath; the Sixth Seal event, many years before the glorious Return and Armageddon.

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
Seems as if you and keras read the same Bible......

Other than different translations, Keras uses ESV and I use the KJV, we all read from the same bible - but we process what we read differently.

Don't we all.
My process, along with the Holy Spirit, says that Armageddon and Gog Magog are one and the same event.

Ezekiel 39:29 takes place after Gog/Magog which takes place in the latter years (end times).

So you are still trying to say Armageddon comes after the Gog war?
No wonder the Jews are confused with Christianity's interpretation of THEIR scriptures........

A lot of things are repeated twice in Revelation but in different ways.
Again, I and a lot of others view these events as 1 and the same.

Revelation 16:
14 For they are spirits of demons doing signs, which are going-out upon the kings of the whold home-land<3625>,
to-be-together-leading/mobilizing/sunagagein <4863> (5629) them into the Battle<4171> of the great Day of the God the Almighty.
16 And they together-leading/mobilize/sunagagein <4863> (5629) them into the Place, the being called to Hebrew Armageddwn<717>

Revelation 20:8
and he shall be coming out<1831> to deceive<4105> the nations, the ones in the Four Corners of the land, the Gog/gwg <1136> and Magog/magwg <3098>,
to be together-leading/mobilizing/sunagagein <4863> (5629) them into the Battle<4171>, of which the Number of them as the Sand<285> of the Se<2281>a.[Ezekiel 7:1-2]

I then looked to see where the greek and hebrew equivalent is used in the OT and NT. And behold!
Matt 24:6!

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

4171. polemos from pelomai (to bustle);
warfare (literally or figuratively; a single encounter or a series):--battle, fight, war.

Matthew 24:6
“Ye shall be about yet to be hearing battles/wars<4171> and rumors<189> of battles. No be seeing ye be being troubled<2360> for all these things must come to pass<1096>,
but not as yet<3768> the end<5056>.

Mark 13:7
“Whenever yet ye should be hearing battles/wars<4171> and rumors of battles,
be seeing no be be being trouble<2360> for is being to be becoming,
but not as yet the end<5056>

Luke 21:9
“Whenever yet ye should be hearing battles/wars<4171> and commotions/tulmuts<181>, no ye may be being terrified<4422>,
for is binding these to be becoming ,
but not immediately the end<5056>.”

Used in the OT. 1 time in Ezekiel 38/39

4421 milchamah from 3898 (in the sense of fighting);
a battle (i.e. the engagement); generally, war (i.e. warfare):--battle, fight(-ing), war((-rior)).

Eze 39:20
You shall be filled at My table With horses and riders, With mighty men
And with all the men of war,” says the Lord GOD.

And in Daniel.....the great North[Israel/Gentiles South/Judea-Jerusalem war

Dan 11
20 “There shall arise in his place one who imposes taxes on the glorious kingdom;
but within a few days he shall be destroyed, but not in anger or in battle.
25 “He shall stir up his power and his courage against the king of the South with a great army.
And the king of the South shall be stirred up to battle with a very great and mighty army; but he shall not stand, for they shall devise plans against him.


Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @ PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterist Eschatology and Preterism

"..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history."
ROMAN SIEGE AND SACK OF JERUSALEM

CHRONOLOGY IMMEDIATELY SURROUNDING THE WAR

Stage 1: Murder of James the Just, "Opposition High Priest" ; Irrevocable Split: 62
Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem ; Zealot Occupation of Masada: August-September 66
Stage 3: The Campaign of Cestius Gallus and the Defeat of the Twelfth Legion: October-November 66
Stage 4: End of Collaborative Government, Priesthood ; General Flight: November 66 - March 67
Part 6: Vespasian Subdues Northern and Western Palestine: December 66 - December 68
Part 7: Three-way Power Struggle within Jerusalem After Roman Retreat: January 68 - May 70
Part 8: Romans Breach City Walls and Leave Jerusalem Desolate: May 10 - September 10, 70

...........................

...........................

 

[Douggg]

So you are still trying to say Armageddon comes after the Gog war?

A lot of things are repeated twice in Revelation but in different ways.

Yes, at the end of the 7 years following Gog's destruction.

Gog/Magog event ends Islam. And frees up the temple mount. Animal sacrifice begin again. And in the middle part of 7 years are stopped. The great tribulation follows. And ends with the Armageddon Ezekiel 39:17-20.

The only place I know of which people claim (erroneously) is repeated twice is in Revelation 12, the time, times, half times as being a repeat of 1260 days in Revelation 12:12.
________________________________________________________________

As far as the great day of battle of God Almighty in Revelation 16:14-16, I think I would look at Zechariah 14:2-3 as being Armageddon as well.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Yes, at the end of the 7 years follow Gog's destruction.
Gog/Magog event ends Islam. And frees up the temple mount Animal sacrifice begin again. And in the middle part of 7 years are stopped. The great tribulation follows. And ends with the Armageddon Ezekiel 39:17-20.
The only place I know of which people claim (erroneously) is repeated twice is in Revelation 12, the time, times, half times as being a repeat of 1260 days in Revelation 12:12.

Oh my goodness.........Islam?!?!?

You know how long it would take to eliminate about 1 billion Muslims in the world?

Islam by country - Wikipedia

Adherents of Islam constitute the world's second largest religious group.
According to a study in 2015, Islam has 1.8 billion adherents, making up about 24.1% of the world population.[1]
Most Muslims are either of two denominations: Sunni (80–90%, roughly 1.5 billion people)[2] or Shia (10–20%, roughly 170–340 million people).[3]

Islam is the dominant religion in Central Asia, Indonesia, Middle East, North Africa, the Sahel[4][5][6][7] and some other parts of Asia.[8]

The diverse Asia-Pacific region contains the highest number of Muslims in the world, easily surpassing the Middle East and North Africa.[9]

South Asia contains the largest population of Muslims in the world. One-third of all Muslims are of South Asian origin.[10][11][12] Islam is the largest religion in the Maldives, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Bangladesh, and second-largest in India.

The various Hamito-Semitic (including Arab, Berber), Turkic, and Iranic countries of the greater Middle East-North Africa (MENA) region,[13] where Islam is the dominant religion in all countries other than Israel,[5] hosts 23% of world Muslims.

The country with the single largest population of Muslims is Indonesia in Southeast Asia, which on its own hosts 13% of the world's Muslims.[14] Together, the Muslims in the countries of Southeast Asia constitute the world's third-largest population of Muslims. In the countries of the Malay Archipelago Muslims are majorities in each country other than the Philippines, Singapore, and East Timor.

About 15% of Muslims reside in Sub-Saharan Africa,[15][6][16] and sizeable Muslim communities are also found in the Americas, China, Russia, and Europe.[4]

Western Europe hosts many Muslim immigrant communities where Islam is the second-largest religion after Christianity, where it represents 6% of the total population or 24 million people.[17] Converts and immigrant communities are found in almost every part of the world.

 

[Douggg]

Oh my goodness.........Islam??/?
You know how long it would take to eliminate about 1 billion Muslims in the world?

The religion not the people. Did you grow up during the 60's and the cold war days? Everything was to fight the spread of communism. Vietnam, Korea, Cuba, Berlin wall, nuclear race, etc. When is the last time you heard of any politician talking about communism? It died. One day, when the berlin wall came down. Even the Chinese are communist in name only.

 

[keras]

You know how long it would take to eliminate about 1 billion Muslims in the world?

One rotation of the earth will do it. Zephaniah 3:8, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Nahum 1:1-6, by a mighty blast of fire from the sun: Isaiah 30:26-28, Isaiah 34:1-3, Malachi 1 & 3, Romans 1:18, +
After that Day, humans will be as scarce as fine gold....Isaiah 13:12 and His enemies will be gone. Isaiah 66:15-17

LLJ said: Poppycock...........please stop with this unbiblical man-made concoction...…
A comment made from ignorance.

Also Douggg; I use the Revised English Bible, the translation used by Wickliffe in their work of bringing the Bible to all languages. It is people who are deceived and trapped in false teachings, who love the KJV and Bibles like the Scofield, that teaches the 'rapture' fable.
I see you haven't addressed my 'walk thru' of #96.

 

[BABerean2]

Even the Chinese are communist in name only.

Really...

.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Because I don't think every single participant country can be determined at this point.

They can be detetmined if you know what happens to them prior to Gogs invasion.

None of Israels present neighbors invade Israel when Gog invades.

Ezekiel 38:5 KJV: Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:
Ezekiel 38:6 KJV: Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.

In fact,Ezekiel went into great detail as to why Egypt would not be able to invade Israel.

None of thesr countries invade Istael when Gog invades.

Egypt,Syria,Turkey,Jordan,Lebanon.Iraq nor does Gaza or Palestians.

And you dont know why because your theory is backward.If you could see things as Christ teaches,you would know ehat happens to these countries before Gog invades Israel.

 

[Douggg]

Really...

.

The Chinese government is a totalitarian regime run dictatorship, calling itself communist. China itself has a lot of private companies making stuff as capitalist nations do.