Walk through if I have it wrong, Ezekiel 38-39

DavidPT

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Where should we draw the line between symbology and literalism?

Did soldiers still ride horses into battle during WWI, even though they did not use bows and arrows?


.



As to Ezekiel 39 we have to look for clues and try and use logic and common sense by asking ourselves questions. For example.

Ezekiel 39:7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

God is the speaker in this verse. God says of His ppl Israel, So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more. If God says He won't let them pollute His holy name anymore from that point on, can or cannot God literally backup what He says? If this prophecy is supposed to already be fulfilled, and if there are still any of His ppl today polluting His holy name in any manner, this would indicate God can't literally backup what He says, thus basically making Him a liar in the process. Since we know God cannot lie and that God does indeed backup what He says, wouldn't the safer bet be that this prophecy has not yet been fulfilled?
 
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keras

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Ezekiel 39:7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.
Certainly, this prophecy hasn't been fulfilled.
But who is the Israel that will fulfil it?
Will it be that mixture of ethnicities that call themselves the Jewish State of Israel, or will it be the faithful, born again Christians; the Overcomers for God, His true Israelite people? Those righteous people who will travel to and enter the holy Land, as so well described in Isaiah 35:1-10, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Zechariah 8:1-8, Romans 9:24-26, +

Over 20 prophesies tell us how the holy Land will be cleared and cleansed on the Lord's Day of fiery wrath; Deuteronomy 32:34-43, Jeremiah 12:14, Zephaniah 1 14-18, + and only a remnant of Judah will survive. Romans 9:27
 
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Douggg

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I just looked at your other thread. Nothing I disagree with in the OP of that thread. I think where we are not on the same page is this. I fully agree Ezekiel 39:17-29 = Jesus' Return. Except I think Ezekiel 39:17-20 is meaning what is to happen to Gog and his multitude, but that you don't. You apparently think it's connected to an entirely different event altogether. I don't.
David, what you are not getting is that the 7 years (Ezekiel 39:9) following Gog's destruction is the same seven years as in Daniel 9:27. Which is the reason for the second feast (in Ezekiel 39) on the dead bodies in Ezekiel 39:17-20.
 
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BABerean2

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David, what you are not getting is that the 7 years (Ezekiel 39:9) following Gog's destruction is the same seven years as in Daniel 9:27.

Based on Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, the Gospel was taken "first" to Israel before Paul began his ministry to the Gentiles found in the verse below.

Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

Therefore, the 70th week of Daniel occurred during the first century.

Based on Luke 21:24-28, the "times of the Gentiles" will continue until the future Second Coming of Christ.


The following comes from the 1599 Geneva Bibel, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America.

Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate.

Daniel 9:27
And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

.
 
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shilohsfoal

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I am not teaching against what Jesus said. What I am teaching disagrees with your understanding of what Jesus said in Revelation 20:8-9.
Your understanding of Revelation 20:8-9 is wrong. But that is not what this thread is about.

You give your walk through explanation of Ezekiel 38-39, fitting it to your understanding of Revelation 20:8-9.

You cant change what Jesus says.Jesus teaches this is when Gog invades Israel and it is.

Revelation 20:8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to assemble them for battle. Their number is like the sand of the seashore.
Revelation 20:9 And they marched across the broad expanse of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. But fire came down from heaven and consumed them.


But you teach the opposite of what Jesus teaches.Why are you teaching the opposite of what Jesus teaches?Are you attempting to decieve people?


Jesus teaches the sequence ,but you say the opposite.Why?
 
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shilohsfoal

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Ezekiel 38:8 NIV: After many days you will be called to arms. In future years you will invade a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety.

Gog invades Israel.A land that has recovered from a terrible war .Most people believe that war to be Armeggedon.And to a people wjom Jesus has has assembled from the nations.A peaceful people dwelling in the land without the use of walls or any kind of defences.A people who are perfectly safe .
 
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Douggg

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Based on Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, the Gospel was taken "first" to Israel before Paul began his ministry to the Gentiles found in the verse below.

Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

Therefore, the 70th week of Daniel occurred during the first century.

Based on Luke 21:24-28, the "times of the Gentiles" will continue until the future Second Coming of Christ.


The following comes from the 1599 Geneva Bibel, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America.

Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate.

Daniel 9:27
And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

.
If you disagree with my walk through of Ezekiel 38-39 as I provided in the opening post, then provide your walk through explanation of Ezekiel 38-39.
 
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Douggg

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Ezekiel 38:8 NIV: After many days you will be called to arms. In future years you will invade a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety.

Gog invades Israel.A land that has recovered from a terrible war .Most people believe that war to be Armeggedon.And to a people wjom Jesus has has assembled from the nations.A peaceful people dwelling in the land without the use of walls or any kind of defences.A people who are perfectly safe .
Then please present your walk through explanation of Ezekiel 38-39. The problem is that you guys are doing fragmentation - which similar to interpreting text out context.
 
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Douggg

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But you teach the opposite of what Jesus teaches.Why are you teaching the opposite of what Jesus teaches?Are you attempting to decieve people?
Really? The topic of this thread is Ezekiel 38-39.

Why can't you do a walk through explanation of Ezekiel 38-39 which incorporates your view of Revelation 20:8-9?
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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Hi Brian, many good points. Why don't you start a new thread on Isaiah 36 and 37. And if you want, refer back to the appropriate verses in Ezekiel 38-39. These threads can get so complex if we try to put the entire end times picture into each of them... that the threads start to get bogged down.
there are no chapter breaks in the Bible and the theme of a people brought back from all the nations is initiated in 36 37 and the idea that they will know the LORD is also there as well as being established and the nations will know that the LORD has sanctified Himself through Israel. The promise on one king coming and David being raised up too and the later days is all established in these chapters that connect to the Gog Magog invasion. Some have tried to dismiss this as historically fulfilled which is a stretch. All the relevant scriptures that paint the backdrop for the full picture of eschatological time line should be on the table. It ends up a lot of scriptures that show these events are future and related. The Gog Magog invasion has been a tricky one to place in the timeline. Some think it is related to the end of the millennium and others place it before the tribulation and others see it as Armageddon. For sure now we are seeing these nations align and Israel has a spoil of natural resources that could be the spoil intended.
It is similar to Zech 12 and 14 where Zech 12 describes many nations coming against Israel and the victory is very different than that of Zech 14 where Israel is being overrun when the LORD comes with His saints and is then king over all the earth. The same with Gog Magog in Revelation is different in that at the end of the 1000 years Satan is loosed and an army surrounds Jerusalem and fire comes down and destroys it and that is it. Where the 2nd coming we see Jerusalem is being overrun. One thing is for sure we are seeing the word of the LORD overtake this generation. The application is the same for all of us weather we agree or not on the timeline. Love one another and share the gospel.
 
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Douggg

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. All the relevant scriptures that paint the backdrop for the full picture of eschatological time line should be on the table.
Everything should be on the table - but for threads to be orderly, the subject matter has to be generally followed.

I did not highlight it, but Ezekiel 38-39 gives the end times time line.

In simplified form.... Gog/Magog, then the seven years, then Jesus's return.
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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It may happen that way as you suggest but their is no verse tying Gog Magog to the 2nd coming like Zech shows the LORD comes that day and is king over all the earth that day. If Israel is burning weapons for 7 years it makes no sense that in the middle of the tribulation the antichrist commits the abomination of desolation and starts persecuting jews and Christians. The body collector and all Israel will need to flee and hide for 42 months. So how does this 7 years play out with this in mind?
 
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BABerean2

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Why are you posting that video in this thread? The speaker is not doing a walk through explaining Ezekiel 38-39.

Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.


2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

.
 
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His student

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Here is what I say, to happen during your lifetime...

Gog/Magog takes place - Ezekiel 38
Gog's army is destroyed - Ezekiel 39:4
Then the cleanup, followed by 7 years - Ezekiel 39:9-16
Then those 7 years
Then Armageddon - Ezekiel 39:17-20
Jesus returned to earth - Ezekiel 39:21-29.
IMO - these events are future just as you believe.

Ezekiel 38&39 predict the destruction of, for want of a better term, Russia and her allies who come against Israel just prior to the Great Tribulation and perhaps just after the rapture of the church.

Those events likely form a catalyst for Israel turning from what is basically a secular state to a nation which worships God in a temple etc.as they did before 70 A.D.

There is an unspecified break between the cleanup (your point number 3) and the beginning of the Tribulation. I don't think the 7 years mentioned in Ezekiel are the Great Tribulation. I think people will have enough on their plates during the Great Tribulation without worrying about cleaning up battle fields.

The last 3 points take place at the end of the 7 year tribulation which you list as your point number 4.

As I see things - Armageddon and the second coming of the Lord to set up His Kingdom on earth come at the end of the tribulation - at least 7 years after the events of Ezekiel 38-39.

The reference to Gog and Magog in Revelation 20 refers to the nations of the earth in a general sort of way. Whereas their mention in Ezekiel is more specific as to their identities for the particular battle to take place at that time. IMO - Gog is likely some demonic principality or power rather than a person living on the earth like the leader of Russia.

IMO - the fact that the same name is used in both places causes people to often make the two battles the same battle - which IMO they are not even though they may involve the same Satanic power structure behind the scenes.

That may not be the "walk thru" you keep asking for. But it ought to make my interpretation of events clear to you.

If I turn out to be wrong when I view the events from top side - it won't be the first thing I was wrong about while living here on earth. :)
 
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shilohsfoal

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Then please present your walk through explanation of Ezekiel 38-39. The problem is that you guys are doing fragmentation - which similar to interpreting text out context.

I didnt need to go any further.
Just that one verse proved your entire walkthrough wrong.

Ezekiel 38:8 NIV: After many days you will be called to arms. In future years you will invade a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety.

The word of God says these people dwelling in Israel are safe.
According to your walkthrough thosr same people will be killed,raped,and led into captivity just 7 years after Gog invades Israel.

Do you disagree with God and say these people are not safe?

Ezekiel 38:8 NIV: After many days you will be called to arms. In future years you will invade a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety.
 
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parousia70

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But if that is incorrect, where is the proof? Something as major as this would at least be recorded somewhere in ancient history records.

Uggh... I get so tired of this dubious line of reasoning.
I can list (and have listed) MULTIPLE TEXTS that you believe are fulfilled that you can not find ONE SINGLE CORROBORATING RECORD OF IN HISTORY, yet you believe and affirm them as fulfilled.

Why do you get to be the exception to your own rule?
Why do we have to provide something to you that you are unwilling and unable to provide yourself?
 
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Douggg

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IMO - these events are future just as you believe.

Ezekiel 38&39 predict the destruction of, for want of a better term, Russia and her allies who come against Israel just prior to the Great Tribulation and perhaps just after the rapture of the church.

Those events likely form a catalyst for Israel turning from what is basically a secular state to a nation which worships God in a temple etc.as they did before 70 A.D.

Those events likely form a catalyst for Israel turning from what is basically a secular state to a nation which worships God in a temple etc.as they did before 70 A.D.

The last 3 points take place at the end of the 7 year tribulation which you list as your point number 4.

As I see things - Armageddon and the second coming of the Lord to set up His Kingdom on earth come at the end of the tribulation - at least 7 years after the events of Ezekiel 38-39.

The reference to Gog and Magog in Revelation 20 refers to the nations of the earth in a general sort of way. Whereas their mention in Ezekiel is more specific as to their identities for the particular battle to take place at that time. IMO - Gog is likely some demonic principality or power rather than a person living on the earth like the leader of Russia.

IMO - the fact that the same name is used in both places causes people to often make the two battles the same battle - which IMO they are not even though they may involve the same Satanic power structure behind the scenes.

That may not be the "walk thru" you keep asking for. But it ought to make my interpretation of events clear to you.

If I turn out to be wrong when I view the events from top side - it won't be the first thing I was wrong about while living here on earth. :)
Hi His student,

We are almost identical in our view.

Those events likely form a catalyst for Israel turning from what is basically a secular state to a nation which worships God in a temple etc.as they did before 70 A.D.
exactly. Gog/Magog will have that effect on Israel. Currently, we can see the participants lining up. In my other thread about brexit, we can see shades of the EU about to change to get to the ten kings, leaders, form of government and the little horn person. Who will become the prince who shall come following Gog/Magog.

There is an unspecified break between the cleanup (your point number 3) and the beginning of the Tribulation. I don't think the 7 years mentioned in Ezekiel are the Great Tribulation. I think people will have enough on their plates during the Great Tribulation without worrying about cleaning up battle fields.
The 7 years in Daniel 9:27 begin when the prince who shall come confirms the (Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years).

I agree that is not likely to happen the day the prince who shall come arrives in Israrel. There is probably going to be a short interim period. Which if there is - is likely to be the 7 months (Ezekiel 39:4) of cleaning up the land from all the dead bodies.

Which also gives some time for messiah fevor to sweep through Israel following the destruction of all her enemies, and freeing up the temple mount.

My view is that the prince who shall come will be viewed by the Jews as the messiah and anointed the King of Israel - which is actually puts him into the Antichrist role.

Being in that role,he will confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant for the 7 year cycle that Moses required of all future leaders of Israel in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

So the 7 years begin. The first part of the 7 years will not be the Great Tribulation or even tribulation, as Israel and the world will believe they have entered the messianic era.

They are burning the war implements during that time, probably scavenging the fuel, for heat and cooking.
____________________________________________________________________
In the middle part of the 7 years, is when the Great Tribulation begins, after their perceived messiah betrays them and the covenant he confirmed, and the Jews begin to flee into the wilderness, where they will be able to burn the remaining war implements (and the fuel) in the wilderness, while protected from the beast.
_______________________________________________________________________
As I see things - Armageddon and the second coming of the Lord to set up His Kingdom on earth come at the end of the tribulation - at least 7 years after the events of Ezekiel 38-39.

Well, 7 years at least after the destruction of Gog's army in Ezekiel 39:4-16.

From Ezekiel 39:17-20 is the Armageddon Feast. And Jesus Himself speaking in Ezekiel 39:21, having returned to earth, recounting the past 2000 years of why the house of Israel went into diaspora for transgressing him... from receiving him as their King.
_______________________________________________________________________
That may not be the "walk thru" you keep asking for. But it ought to make my interpretation of events clear to you.
Yes, you did a good job.
 
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Douggg

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The word of God says these people dwelling in Israel are safe.
According to your walkthrough thosr same people will be killed,raped,and led into captivity just 7 years after Gog invades Israel.
The great tribulation begins in the middle part of those 7 years following Gog/Magog. And yes, to all the persecution, the worst time in their history, for them who do not flee when they see the abomination of desolation setup. Matthew 24:15-21 and Daniel 12.
Do you disagree with God and say these people are not safe?
This is what about talking about you doing fragmentation's instead of walking through from the beginning of Ezekiel 38 to the end of Ezekiel 39. You are pulling things out of context of the whole of the two chapters.
 
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