Waking at 2:00am

Bon

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Hi all,

I have a problem with Bonham my 3 year old.

He is waking in the middle of the night and getting up and expecting me (not DH) to come into his room and "stay", as he says, till he falls asleep again.

Well this has become a real problem because it is the same when he goes to bed at night, when he wants me to stay with him then too....

We have to creep around the house now when he is asleep incase he wakes and keeps us "attending to him" for up to two hours sometimes.
---------------------------

OK, in recent weeks, I have decided to put my foot down and tell him that I will no longer "stay" with him but will go back to my own bed....

The results have been mixed.....the first night he yelled for two and a half hours until he finally fell asleep.
Then there have been a few nights where he has woken around 1-2am and called out for a minute or two then fallen back to sleep.
Then there have been nights when he has slept through.

Anyway, a few nights ago, it was a shocking night when he just kept getting up and coming into our room constantly.....each time, I would take him back to his room and put him into bed and tell him that it is not acceptable behaviour...and that I would take away one of his favourite toys. (that is the deal....wake up, and cause a scene: lose a favourite toy until he sleeps through the night to receive it back again)

This resulted in all of us yelling and crying, and I smacked him out of frustration...(I felt demon possesed, and very sad about it the next morning)

The final straw was a threat to take him out to the garage where he could yell and scream all he liked, and no-one would hear him.
When I picked him up to "pretend" to take him out, he freaked out, went back to bed and was finally quiet, and we all went back to sleep.

He lost the posession of 4 of his favourite toys last night, and will only receive one back each night that he sleeps through.

My husband is in total conflict with me on this issue and would happily have me "stay" with him each and every night he wakes for the next 5-10 years to aviod such night-time dramas.

He is "weak" with his discipline, and Bonham walks all over him in the middle of the night if he goes in to him. In fact, Bonham screams at the top of his lungs, because he doesnt want his dad there....and DH cant stand the screaming so he "spits the dummy" in an instant.

I am trying to nip this sleep problem in the bud ASAP, regardless of the (hopefully) few weeks of sleep deprivation we need to endure in the mean-time.

This night-time scene, however, resulted in a fruitless attempt as my plan fully backfired in my face leaving me bewildered, without a clue as to what to do next.....

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A specific question about the one main thing I really need help with is....

HOW DO I DEAL WITH HIM WHEN HE WAKES AND COMES INTO OUR ROOM EXPECTING ME TO GO IN AND STAY WITH HIM?

You see, I have decided NOT to STAY with him....but to put him back in his bed and tell him I will not stay, then walk away.

It doesn't work.....Over and over again, we go through the battle of the wills, until I lose it and raise my voice.

He did it again the next night and I tried the calm approach which made no difference from the night before when I yelled.

I need HELP on the DETAILS.

step by step.....WHAT DO I DO? ....WHAT DO I SAY? ....WHAT IS EFFECTIVE PARENTING in such a situation?

He is not very reasonable yet, so I cant explain something and expect that he is going to understand it fully even when he says he does, but reacts as if he doesnt.

Then last night he did it again, this time I very quietly took him back to his bed and sucumbed to the old way of standing at his door till he fell asleep and crept back to bed half an hour later. :cry:

I'm at a complete loss as to HOW TO DISCIPLINE HIM DURING THIS NIGHT-TIME DRAMA.

Today I feel down-trodden and defeated....and depressed.....and unhappy with Bonham....

HEEEEEELP

....I really need HELP! :help:

Bon
 

andiesmama

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Hi and I'm sorry to hear about your struggles...my daughter turned 3 a couple weeks ago and we have a battle of wills alot at bedtime as well. Our main struggle is the actual "going to bed" part...but I'm slowly nipping it in the bud (knock on wood)! She will wake up during the night at least once, but it's usually to go potty, then I don't have any trouble getting her back into bed & asleep. If she wakes up any other time at night, I simply say, "Let mommy put you back to bed" & carry her back to her bed. She's usually half asleep or more and doesn't really give me an argument.

But back to your question...first, (as I think you know) your son is getting mixed messages from you & your husband. It needs to be a united front, so your son is hearing the same thing from both of you...that is, when mommy AND daddy say it's time for bed, then that's it. I think you are on the right track with just letting him cry & fuss. It's a battle of wills, you know! And us, as parents, can't let the child win because that just sets the standard for everything in the future.

So, you said step by step, huh? Well, this is how we put Andie to bed, so maybe you can implement some of this stuff we use. After stories with daddy, she & I brush her teeth and then she goes potty one last time. I ask if she wants a drink of water, because once she gets in bed there's no more water (that's another stall tactic she was using). Then we go to her room, I put her in bed and we might read a story, or I might just sing to her. I then tell her I'll go get daddy, and after daddy is done it's time for bed. I remind her if she gets out of bed then we will shut her door (we leave it cracked normally). Then daddy comes in to sing & cuddle, and when he's done, HE reminds her of the same stuff that I did. And that's it. If she gets out of bed, I just take her back to bed & remind her that it's time to sleep & not to be awake, and also remind her that now I will shut her door. I then tell her if she gets out of bed again then .....(fill in the blank of something fun we had planned for the next day) we won't do whatever. Rarely does she get out of bed after we shut her door, but the important thing is the follow through.

For some children, rewards work better than punishments...maybe give your son stickers for each night he stays in bed, & after so many he gets a new toy or some treat? Or I read somewhere that one mom & dad had the "sleep fairy" come after their child fell asleep but ONLY if they didn't get out of bed & left them little treats.

But I tried rewards with Andie, and for this bedtime thing they didn't work. I just had to let her know that we meant business, bedtime was a time for sleeping & not playing...and I think that it MIGHT be finally sinking in!:sorry: We can only hope!! lol

I know this is long, but I hope you can get some helpful hints out of it. Really, though, I think the most important thing is unity between you & your husband, then you just need to experiment to find something that will work for your son! Good luck & feel free to PM me anytime!
 
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Leanna

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Well I am certainly no expert since I don't have a three year old yet, but I agree with andiesmama that a unified front is important. Both you and your husband should talk and agree on what to do. ALSO I agree with her that being consistant is very important. ALSO I agree with her to try rewards! :)

I had an idea, but I'm a little scared to suggest it because I don't know if it would be really a bad thing to do. What about locking the bedroom door from the outside? Not at first, first give him a chance to do the right thing, but after he wakes at 2 am and starts throwing a fit maybe just tell him you are going to leave him alone in his room and if he cant sleep he can at least lay in bed. Then, also, when you need a "time out" because of frustration you have a way to get away for a few minutes without him being able to follow and push you over the edge of losing your temper.

I have a vague recollection of when I was 5 years old. I was a very stubborn child (and adult, oi!) and my mother wanted me to go to bed. I would get very mad and I remember thinking I would "show her" by staying up alllll night. So I would sit in bed, very mad. After a while I would get really drowsy and think "well, I'll just lay down a bit.." and then I fell off to sleep. I know I did this a number of times, try to stay up all night, but I doubt I stayed up very long before I fell asleep. My mother was very consistant and so I had no choice but to grow out of that stage. So I did. By the time I was 8 I set my own bedtime and got ready and went to bed. And I would set it early times like 8 or 9.

By the way, I am 90% sure my mom locked me in my room or I would not have stayed in it. Like I said, I was a stubborn child.

In conclusion, be sure to have your husband and yourself on the same side. Then be consistant in whatever you do.
 
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andiesmama

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another idea to go with Leanna's suggestion about locking the door...if that makes you uncomfortable, I've heard of parents using baby gates. That way, you could give your son a couple warnings, then up goes the baby gate. He might cry & fuss for awhile, or you might even find him asleep on the floor by the gate, but he'll get the message.

We did CIO with Andie to get her used to sleeping by herself when she was a baby, so I hope my suggestions don't come across as sounding harsh or uncaring! But it's just what worked & is working for us now, so I wanted to throw out some ideas to you...
 
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Bon

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Thanks for your replies. :)

I am trying to be consistent....but it's so hard because when one thing doesnt work, I try another variation.....over and over.....the consistency thing is not very effective as I am working by trial and error....

And as for the lock on the door....I want to do it, (there are special handles you can clip over the door knob which prevent the child from turning it), but DH doesnt want to because....."what if there is a fire?".....or "what if something happens, and we dont hear?"

It's my DH's typical attitude with most things.......he will oppose just about everything I say...... :mad: Its one of his VERY annoying habits.

Anyway, that aside, consistency is the key.....but I'm grappling in the dark and cant find a workable solution.

I am, however, consistent in my discipline....(I am the disciplinarian....DH is the softie...and no help in such situations as the waking in the night problem)
It's frustrating, and DH basically thinks that I am a cold-hearted and hard-nosed b___h. He doesn't WANT to understand what I am trying to accomplish...even though there are times when he say he does...but his actions dont match his words.

:sigh:

Bon
 
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andiesmama

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Oh, I understand the trial & error thing, that's for sure! I mean, isn't that what parenting is all about? lol ;)

How long are you sticking with one type of thing? I know that when we did CIO with Andie when she was a baby, it took a week before she was truly putting herself back to sleep...and now, the bedtime thing I was talking about? It's been going on 2 weeks now with me doing & saying the same thing, & she's finally slowing down on her procrastination & getting out of bed at bedtime.

If your DH doesn't like the crying & all that (well, who does though, right?), maybe you & him TOGETHER could think of some kind of reward thing to try for awhile. Rather than the punishment route, maybe doing a reward would make your DH take to the situation better, you know? Anyways, just a thought...I know it's frustrating when the discipline is totally left on your shoulders...

I'll say a prayer for you that God gives you the strength to make it through this rough time (remember, this too shall pass) and the wisdom to come up with a workable solution!
 
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Leanna

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Yes it sounds like you guys should go to counseling. Then you guys can come to agreement and he can't just say "no, not that.." and then not give any suggestions of his own. It really sounds like it would be important for you guys to work this out, otherwise when your child becomes a teenager there will be no unity between you, and when you have more than one child it will really be a challenge.
 
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bliz

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My view is different... but make of it what you will...

What terrible and horrid thing is Bonham doing in the middle of the night? He is waking up and wanting to be with his Mom. You are, as is quite common for a 3 year old, the center of his universe. That he should wake up in the night and want you is to be expected. And what is your reaction - from his perspective? To be very unhappy with him, to threaten to take him to the garage and leave him there in the middle of the night, to abandon him and to hit him. When he most wants and needs your affection and attention, what does he get?

What is the purpose of parenting? A huge part of the job is meeting a child's needs - not whims or passing fancies, but needs. Children need love and affection, including in the middle of the night. No, not a very convenient time, but having children in your life is anything but convenient. Don't you and your husband enjoy having someone to snuggle next to in the night? Why would it be different for little children? Your son desires your attention and affection in the night - how did that get to be a bad thing?

The night time drama comes about becasue of how you have chosen to respond to his needs. You think that you are being strong while your husband is being weak. But the kid's need is unmet, and kids with unmet needs do not respond to life very well.

Why not pull back the covers on your bed and invite him in and go back to sleep? Why not put him in there between you and your husband so he can also become familiar with and comfortable with Dad as a loving cae giver as well? Why not make up a little bed next to your bed - when he wakes up in the night he can climb in there and everyhone can go back to sleep? This is not "giving in" to a child - this is realizing what the child's needs are and meeting them.

There is a time and place for making rules and teaching children to abide by those rules, and 3 year olds are not too young to do that. But you are trying to make a rule about an emotional need with a toddler, and it just isn't going to work too well, as you have noticed.

Worse yet, it may begin to work. Bonham may begin to learn that despite how loving you are in the daytime, he is on his own at night. He will learn that he will get no comfort from you, that he might as well turn to a stuffed animal or a blanket for affection in the night because it's not coming from you. If you continue as you have been, it will in time lessen. He will cry less and less and learn that it does not good wanting you in the night, you are not going to be there for him. Is that really the lesson you want to teach?

We raised three kids with a "family bed" and today, at ages 24, 21 and 18 our kids come and sit with us and talk things over and seek out our opinions and enjoy ocassionally going to the moveis or watching a TV show with us. That started back when they were "wee tot young'ens" as my husband liked to call them. You don't get to have kids who are close to you as teenagers if you push them away as toddlers.
 
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Bon

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bliz said:
My view is different... but make of it what you will...

What terrible and horrid thing is Bonham doing in the middle of the night? He is waking up and wanting to be with his Mom. You are, as is quite common for a 3 year old, the center of his universe. That he should wake up in the night and want you is to be expected. And what is your reaction - from his perspective? To be very unhappy with him, to threaten to take him to the garage and leave him there in the middle of the night, to abandon him and to hit him. When he most wants and needs your affection and attention, what does he get?

What is the purpose of parenting? A huge part of the job is meeting a child's needs - not whims or passing fancies, but needs. Children need love and affection, including in the middle of the night. No, not a very convenient time, but having children in your life is anything but convenient. Don't you and your husband enjoy having someone to snuggle next to in the night? Why would it be different for little children? Your son desires your attention and affection in the night - how did that get to be a bad thing?

The night time drama comes about becasue of how you have chosen to respond to his needs. You think that you are being strong while your husband is being weak. But the kid's need is unmet, and kids with unmet needs do not respond to life very well.

Why not pull back the covers on your bed and invite him in and go back to sleep? Why not put him in there between you and your husband so he can also become familiar with and comfortable with Dad as a loving cae giver as well? Why not make up a little bed next to your bed - when he wakes up in the night he can climb in there and everyhone can go back to sleep? This is not "giving in" to a child - this is realizing what the child's needs are and meeting them.

There is a time and place for making rules and teaching children to abide by those rules, and 3 year olds are not too young to do that. But you are trying to make a rule about an emotional need with a toddler, and it just isn't going to work too well, as you have noticed.

Worse yet, it may begin to work. Bonham may begin to learn that despite how loving you are in the daytime, he is on his own at night. He will learn that he will get no comfort from you, that he might as well turn to a stuffed animal or a blanket for affection in the night because it's not coming from you. If you continue as you have been, it will in time lessen. He will cry less and less and learn that it does not good wanting you in the night, you are not going to be there for him. Is that really the lesson you want to teach?

We raised three kids with a "family bed" and today, at ages 24, 21 and 18 our kids come and sit with us and talk things over and seek out our opinions and enjoy ocassionally going to the moveis or watching a TV show with us. That started back when they were "wee tot young'ens" as my husband liked to call them. You don't get to have kids who are close to you as teenagers if you push them away as toddlers.

Thanks Bliz,

Your post couldn't have come at a better time...Yahweh's time. Thank you....

For the last two nights, I had decided to remain very calm and not to talk too much......just the basics.....

"Lets go back to bed, lie down....shhhhh!....sleepy-time"

Some such words while I gently rubbed his back for a minute or two.

He too remained calm and didn't 'command' anything at all, but complied with my gentle request and lay down and went back to sleep, and I was able to get back into bed within 10-20 minutes.

Now I am hoping that he will eventually phase this out as it is really a night-time non-event, where-as before, he was getting alot of attention, even if it was negative and unpleasant.

You see bliz, he has been one to sleep through the night up until he moved into his new "big bed" and then not long after got a bout of gastro (a bad case for 5 days) where we were attending to him day and night, at his whim.
We even set up a bed on his floor and stayed with him the whole night on some nights.

Well now it is THIS bad habit that we are trying to break. Do you understand?

Also, he will not, and never has wanted to climb into bed with us....it's just not his thing.....we have tried it, but he wont do it...he fusses and says that he wants to go into his own bed....but with me in tow. :)

What a drama this has all become....I have tried to follow the advice of the experts (books and sleep-centres etc)...but I have not been able to remain calm at all times, and have then proceeded to put undue pressure of everyone in the house, and we are all suffering for it.

DH also agreed yesderday, to unite with me on whatever course we decide to follow.....
...I only know one type of upbringing.....the harsh type....the use of the rod for correction etc. etc.

That comes naturally to me...even though I work hard to modify it....(no rod, and barely a smack).....and more communication, explanation and reasoning, with lots of hugs and kisses...(something I didnt receive very much at all).

Anyway...it's time to modify even further......curb the anger. :)

Working on it.....with prayer. :prayer:

Shalom to all and thank you from Bon
 
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Gracie710

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I don't have a three year old yet, but I can definitely understand the conflict between spouses who don't agree on a strategy with a child -- our nine month old is still getting up way too many times at night -- we had it under control, and then she started sleeping with us a couple nights when she got sick, and it was . . . oh boy, back to square one!

This reminded me of a technique Supernanny used, that might be helpful for you. She recommends saying not one word to the child, but just taking their hand, bringing them back to the bed, tucking them in, and leaving. The first night you may have to do it thirty times, the second night fifteen, the third night, fewer, until the child learns there is no "payoff" for getting up, then they will give up.

A previous poster said, why not let him sleep in the bed with you? Well, that's such a personal decision. I don't agree that he "needs" to be there in bed with you at night, if that's not what you and your husband want. If he was okay before he got sick sleeping through the night, then he needs gentle reminding it seems to me. HTH.
 
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Bon

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Gracie710 said:
I don't have a three year old yet, but I can definitely understand the conflict between spouses who don't agree on a strategy with a child -- our nine month old is still getting up way too many times at night -- we had it under control, and then she started sleeping with us a couple nights when she got sick, and it was . . . oh boy, back to square one!

This reminded me of a technique Supernanny used, that might be helpful for you. She recommends saying not one word to the child, but just taking their hand, bringing them back to the bed, tucking them in, and leaving. The first night you may have to do it thirty times, the second night fifteen, the third night, fewer, until the child learns there is no "payoff" for getting up, then they will give up.

A previous poster said, why not let him sleep in the bed with you? Well, that's such a personal decision. I don't agree that he "needs" to be there in bed with you at night, if that's not what you and your husband want. If he was okay before he got sick sleeping through the night, then he needs gentle reminding it seems to me. HTH.

Thanks Gracie,

That is what I have been doing these past 3 nights......quietly poping him back into bed with absolute minimal talk in a low quiet calm voice..."Back to bed"...."Sssh"

And he's been going back off to sleep fairly soon after.

We'll see how this strategy pans out. :)

Wow! Three is a real trying age.....Bonham, pushes the envelope to the extreme.

Yesterday he grabbed a toilet roll and began tearing it up.....I said "we dont tear up our toilet rolls....we need them in the toilet"......RIP, TEAR.
"Please, give the roll to mummy".....RIP, TEAR.....run away laughing.
I ignore him. And keep gettin up ready to leave the house. He comes back to me.....RIP TEAR....laugh....."Hey bubba, lets get our clothes on so we can go to the play centre"......RIP TEAR....laugh.
"Do you think mummy thinks that is a good thing to do or a naughty thing to do?"
"Naughty".....
"What does mummy do when you are naughty?"
"Put me in the naughty corner"
"Do you WANT to go into the naughty corner?"
"No"
"Then why dont you put the toilet roll down and lets get ready to go"
RIP TEAR....laugh and run-away.
"OK, lets go to the naughty corner."
running away...."NO"
Off I go to get him for the naughty corner.

The more we fuss over the issue, the more he runs riot over it. But there is a fine line between ignoring the problem and taking effective action......It's a tough one, becasue it requires CALMNESS and PATIENCE.
And what I wanted to do most yesterday....was to snatch the toilet roll off him and yell, "STOP IT, or else." Hehe!

Talk about frustration..........Who said the "terrible-twos"?......it's more like the "terrible-toddlers"........and from what I've heard and witnessed......perhaps it should be "the terrible all-the-times".
Haha!

Bon
 
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bliz

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Bon -

I'm so glad that things are going much better and your household is getting more sleep and experiencing less stress. Getting the full picture of what had been going on helped paint a much more accurate picture of the events. I know it seems impossible, but someday you will hardly remember these nights!
 
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Leanna

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Gracie, I love the idea about not talking so there is no pay off! I should have thought of that as that the technique my husband and I used on our son as a newborn. We would sneak in there at night and feed him, change him, and soothe him, but we had a rule-- NEVER SPEAK. There were several reasons for this.... first, we wanted him to know nighttime was different and there was no playing at night, and secondly we thought our voices would just get him more awake and he would have more trouble going back to sleep.
 
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Princessperky

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Glad to hear it went better last night, we used the fade out on both our kids and the whole transition from mommy nursing them to sleep to self soothing was slow, but easy.

After the kids are sick with a cold or something and we change the rules it is back a few steps but able to get them back to normal so long as we don't expect, cold beign gone = kid being back to normal!

Good luck on the anger thing I am struggling with that, and with expecting to much of my DS.
 
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