Wake Island Rail Restoration

[Archivist]

Before World War II the Wake Island Rail, a flightless bird, lived on Wake Island, a US possession. The Japanese captured the island in 1941. During the war Japanese troops ate the rail to extinction.

Does Japan owe it to the world to spend the money to develop cloning, clone Wake Island Rails and restore the species? I think they do. Of course they have also refused to pay workers from other nations for their slave labor during World War II.

 

[JackRT]

By the same token the USA and Canada certainly have not adequately compensated their native peoples for the loss of their ancestral lands and culture. So apparently they see no reason to make up for their past wrongs.

 

[Archivist]

By the same token the USA and Canada certainly have not adequately compensated their native peoples for the loss of their ancestral lands and culture. So apparently they see no reason to make up for their past wrongs.

Very true, but at least both are working towards that. In Canada, for example, the Truth and Reconciliation Commission is taking steps towards compensation and recognition. They aren’t there yet, much more needs to be done but at least they are doing something. To my knowledge Japan has done nothing in terms of cloning the Rail.

 

[JackRT]

But at least both are working towards that. In Canada, for example, the Truth and Reconciliation Commission is taking steps towards that.

I am well aware of that and that is a positive move. It is worth noting that the Japanese garrison on Wake Island was in the end totally cut off like many other of their islands. People get hungry.

 

[JackRT]

I am well aware of that and that is a positive move. It is worth noting that the Japanese garrison on Wake Island was in the end totally cut off like many other of their islands. People get hungry.

 

[Archivist]

I am well aware of that and that is a positive move. It is worth noting that the Japanese garrison on Wake Island was in the end totally cut off like many other of their islands. People get hungry.

That isn’t a reason to drive a creature to extinction. They could have surrendered.

 

[Occams Barber]

Before World War II the Wake Island Rail, a flightless bird, lived on Wake Island, a US possession. The Japanese captured the island in 1941. During the war Japanese troops ate the rail to extinction.

Does Japan owe it to the world to spend the money to develop cloning, clone Wake Island Rails and restore the species? I think they do. Of course they have also refused to pay workers from other nations for their slave labor during World War II.

I doubt that any country is guilt free when it comes to causing the extinction of native animals. My own country (Australia) is particularly good at this.

Why are you picking out the Japanese, particularly when the choice for the troops may have been between eating the bird or starving to death?

I don't see how Japanese slave labour in WW2 is relevant to the topic.

OB

 

[JackRT]

In the end they did but only after being defeated in this planets first nuclear war. BTW today is the 75th anniversary of the Hiroshima atomic strike. Since then Japan has completely turned itself around both economically and culturally. A total personality change.

 

[Archivist]

I doubt that any country is guilt free when it comes to causing the extinction of native animals. My own country (Australia) is particularly good at this.

Unfortunately so has the US. I am pointing out a particular species and a particular instance because we know who caused its extinction, to the point that we can even identify those who were there.

Why are you picking out the Japanese, particularly when the choice for the troops may have been between eating the bird or starving to death?

No, they also had the choice of surrendering.

don't see how Japanese slave labour in WW2 is relevant to the topic.

I was trying to show that they they have not always worked to undue what was done in the past. At least the US paid compensation to those Japanese-Americans who were wrongly interned. At least statutes of Confederate leaders are now coming down.

 

[Archivist]

In the end they did but only after being defeated in this planets first nuclear war. BTW today is the 75th anniversary of the Hiroshima atomic strike. Since then Japan has completely turned itself around both economically and culturally. A total personality change.

Yes, I was thinking of that. And the fact that they have had a personality change is why they should be working to restore this creature. This thread is not an attack on the Japanese. It is simply a call for them to undue a past wrong.

 

[JackRT]

Yes, I was thinking of that. And the fact that they have had a personality change is why they should be working to restore this creature. This thread is not an attack on the Japanese. It is simply a call for them to undue a past wrong.

Actually I am encouraged by the development of technologies that potentially could restore extinct species. Being a very recent extinction it is actually a good candidate for such an experiment. However more high profile extinctions get far more attention. I think here of the Woolly Mammoth, the Tasmanian Tiger and such.

 

[Archivist]

Actually I am encouraged by the development of technologies that potentially could restore extinct species. Being a very recent extinction it is actually a good candidate for such an experiment. However more high profile extinctions get far more attention. I think here of the Woolly Mammoth, the Tasmanian Tiger and such.

Agreed. That’s another reason why I picked this particular bird. The best thing to do would be to start with those that have recently gone extinct like the Wake Island Rail, the Pinta Island Tortoise (Lonesome George, the last one, recently died), the Eskimo Curlew (last certain sighting was in the 60s) and then start working our way backwards.

See, we are together on this. I just think the Rail should be a special project for the Japanese. The Carolina Parakeet should certainly be a project for Americans. Let’s all work to undue our past wrongs.

 

[JackRT]

Once we have the technology nailed down we could do dinosaurs. We could do it on a tropical island but we need a catchy name ---- how about, say, Jurassic Park?

 

[Occams Barber]

Unfortunately so has the US. I am pointing out a particular species and a particular instance because we know who caused its extinction, to the point that we can even identify those who were there.

This same reasoning would apply to many extinctions

No, they also had the choice of surrendering.

Seriously? We're talking about a group of uneducated Japanese troops surrendering a strategic asset early in WW2 at a time when few people were aware of issues associated with extinction of native animals. Potential extinction events also apply to any region subject to warfare. To suggest that any military force is likely to surrender based on consideration for the local fauna is a little simplistic.

I was trying to show that they they have not always worked to undue what was done in the past. At least the US paid compensation to those Japanese-Americans who were wrongly interned. At least statutes of Confederate leaders are now coming down.

Most of us have these types of unresolved offences buried in our history whether its Australian Indigenous, American First People or African nations under colonialism. To suggest that the Japanese are somehow the only people who have past crimes on their collective conscience is ridiculous.

OB

 

[JackRT]

Agreed. That’s another reason why I picked this particular bird. The best thing to do would be to start with those that have recently gone extinct like the Wake Island Rail, the Pinta Island Tortoise (Lonesome George, the last one, recently died), the Eskimo Curlew (last certain sighting was in the 60s) and then start working our way backwards.

See, we are together on this. I just think the Rail should be a special project for the Japanese. The Carolina Parakeet should certainly be a project for Americans. Let’s all work to undue our past wrongs.

I must admit that when I saw "Wake Island Rail" in your thread title my first thought was "Why would a tiny place like Wake Island have a rail line?" I just had to find out more.

 

[Occams Barber]

I must admit that when I saw "Wake Island Rail" in your thread title my first thought was "Why would a tiny place like Wake Island have a rail line?" I just had to find out more.

I had exactly the same thought. When I opened the post I was disappointed to find that it wasn't about train spotting.

OB

 

[JackRT]

Seriously? We're talking about a group of uneducated Japanese troops surrendering a strategic asset early in WW2

They held out till the end of the war spending the last two years as the aiming mark of a bombing range. The USA never made any attempt to retake the Island.

 

[Occams Barber]

They held out till the end of the war spending the last two years as the aiming mark of a bombing range. The USA never made any attempt to retake the Island.

My answer was a little ambiguous.

I was trying to point out that it is unreasonable to expect the Japanese to have surrendered the island based on consideration for the fauna.

OB

 

[Archivist]

This same reasoning would apply to many extinctions

Agreed. That’s why I said earlier that the US should take the lead in restoring certain species.

Seriously? We're talking about a group of uneducated Japanese troops surrendering a strategic asset early in WW2 at a time when few people were aware of issues associated with extinction of native animals. Potential extinction events also apply to any region subject to warfare. To suggest that any military force is likely to surrender based on consideration for the local fauna is a little simplistic.

I was responding to someone who said their only choice was to eat the rails or surrender. No, they could have surrendered.

Most of us have these types of unresolved offences buried in our history whether its Australian Indigenous, American First People or African nations under colonialism. To suggest that the Japanese are somehow the only people who have past crimes on their collective conscience is ridiculous.

perhaps you should read the thread because I never said that the Japanese were the only ones who should make up for past wrongs. I only picked the Rail because we can specifically identify those who caused its extinction. We know exactly who is responsible. We don’t know who caused the Eskimo Curlew to go extinct because it migrated from Canada south to Argentina. Restoration of the Rail, undoing what they did, could become a special project for Japan.

 

[Archivist]

My answer was a little ambiguous.

I was trying to point out that it is unreasonable to expect the Japanese to have surrendered the island based on consideration for the fauna.

Why? What did the rail do to the Japanese soldiers?