Voting no to fear and loathing

[Tanj]

There was a Victorian state election last weekend. The conservative party ran on a "fear the evil brown people" platform (for us it's Sudanese immigrants). The Victorian electorate told them in no uncertain terms where to stick it, with one of the biggest election losses they have seen.

I'm quite often proud to be Australian, this is one of those times.

 

[Paidiske]

I have to admit I wasn't impressed with the Liberal policy platform. Didn't think Labor's was perfect either, but of the two I thought it was better.

Did you happen to catch Julia Banks' speech about why she's leaving the Liberal party, too? I wanted to cheer.

 

[Halbhh]

Australia has a lot of good in it. For one thing we've come to know and love across the ocean from ya'll, it's the source of the wonderful Hillsong United, giving us some of the most inspired and wonderful Christian music around today. I sometimes think that if most of the world 'goes south' there is a south part that is more healthy.

 

[Occams Barber]

There was a Victorian state election last weekend. The conservative party ran on a "fear the evil brown people" platform (for us it's Sudanese immigrants). The Victorian electorate told them in no uncertain terms where to stick it, with one of the biggest election losses they have seen.

I'm quite often proud to be Australian, this is one of those times.

I'm not a Victorian but I was watching from a distance and cheered when the bumboil which is the (current) Liberal Party got thoroughly lanced. I'm really tired of the immigrant bashing, unproductive policy vacuum coming out of that end of politics.

@Paidiske I also cheered when Sarah Hansen Young gave a few Senators (notably Cory Bernardi, Leyonhjelm and Senator 'Final Solution' Anning) a good talking to for their under the counter slurring.
OB

 

[Occams Barber]

Australia has a lot of good in it. For one thing we've come to know and love across the ocean from ya'll, it's the source of the wonderful Hillsong United, giving us some of the most inspired and wonderful Christian music around today. I sometimes think that if most of the world 'goes south' there is a south part that is more healthy.

I don't want to disappoint you Halbhh but Australia may not be as rosy as you think it is from a Christian viewpoint.

At the last Census (2016) Christians were 52% of the population and rapidly falling. The biggest 'religious' group were 'no religion' (30%) ahead of Catholics (22.6%). Only a fraction of our Christians actually attend church regularly. Churches can be hard to find.

Pentecostals are a tiny 1.1%. We have more Hindus (1.9%) or Buddhists (2.4%).

If you're looking at Australia as the last bastion of Christianity you will be disappointed.

We are described as one of the least religious Western countries.
OB

 

[Paidiske]

@Paidiske I also cheered when Sarah Hansen Young gave a few Senators (notably Cory Bernardi, Leyohjelm and Senator 'Final Solution' Anning) a good talking to for their under the counter slurring.
OB

Oh, I missed that. Good.

 

[Halbhh]

I don't want to disappoint you Halbhh but Australia may not be as rosy as you think it is from a Christian viewpoint.

At the last Census (2016) Christians were 52% of the population and rapidly falling. The biggest 'religious' group were 'no religion' (30%) ahead of Catholics (22.6%). Only a fraction of our Christians actually attend church regularly. Churches can be hard to find.

Pentecostals are a tiny 1.1%. We have more Hindus (1.9%) or Buddhists (2.4%).

If you're looking at Australia as the last bastion of Christianity you will be disappointed.

We are described as one of the least religious Western countries.
OB

It's not numbers that matter. Christ said the number would be "few", which might mean a small percentage of the population.
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."

It's never been the case, not even once anywhere in the world is my guess, that a majority of any nation was following Him. Instead, there was a time here in the U.S., and in Europe, and some other nations when many pretended to be Christian, because that was socially advantageous. All social and business contacts were in churches, and it was what you did on Sunday, regardless of what you believed.

I routinely was able to talk to people in churches back then and find non believers attending, because that's what everyone did. It was the tradition.

Today, when I talk to people in churches, I find the overwhelming majority are today believers, and it's hard to find any non believer at all. The non-believers have left. This isn't bad, but it is very interesting. Christ foretold more than just a few things about the progression of changes that would come.

 

[iluvatar5150]

the wonderful Hillsong United, giving us some of the most inspired and wonderful Christian music around today.

Let's not get carried away here.

 

[Halbhh]

Let's not get carried away here.

Would you like an example?

 

[iluvatar5150]

Would you like an example?

Thanks, but I've had my fill.

 

[Halbhh]

Thanks, but I've had my fill.

Perhaps something more about the current situation, today, as caused by America? That's a for-real thing you perhaps already know some on, and U2 is a lotta fun? I just love this song. And this 3rd party video take on it is pretty good stuff to show the song in images. The policies of America in Central America coming home to us today...

The 2nd song here:
America
(Bullet the Blue Sky -- U2)

 

[iluvatar5150]

Perhaps something more about the current situation, today, as caused by America? That's a for-real thing you perhaps already know some on, and U2 is a lotta fun? I just love this song. And this 3rd party video take on it is pretty good stuff to show the song in images. The policies of America in Central America coming home to us today...

The 2nd song here:
America
(Bullet the Blue Sky -- U2)

No, I just don't really like Hillsong - or most CCM for that matter. The genre is a lot better now than it used to be, but it's still not great. The songs are rarely suitable for group/choral singing and musically, they're often not interesting. If the genre is going to favor songs done in a pop style suitable for a single vocalist, I wish it would start valuing and promoting originality instead of knock-offs. That whole scene has corrected a lot of the technical problems that plagued it in the 80s and 90s but it's still pretty devoid of taste and artistry.

If anyone doubts that assessment, check out how many churches have or are building their sets with pallet walls and LED tape. It's all hideous.

 

[Halbhh]

No, I just don't really like Hillsong - or most CCM for that matter. The genre is a lot better now than it used to be, but it's still not great. The songs are rarely suitable for group/choral singing and musically, they're often not interesting. If the genre is going to favor songs done in a pop style suitable for a single vocalist, I wish it would start valuing and promoting originality instead of knock-offs. That whole scene has corrected a lot of the technical problems that plagued it in the 80s and 90s but it's still pretty devoid of taste and artistry.

If anyone doubts that assessment, check out how many churches have or are building their sets with pallet walls and LED tape. It's all hideous.

That's right. About 95% of Christian contemporary music is going to be less musically interesting and fun than just general popular music. Definitely. I'm curious if you liked the U2 video though (if you do see it). It's musically better than 95% of popular music, technically, in my view. I played in a high school rock band, and liked bands like Led Zepplin and such.

But the reason I suggest that 3rd party video of Bullet the Blue Sky (the link "America" in post #11) isn't (mostly) for the excellent musical quality, but for the images, and the good poetry of U2's lyrics also, and the overall dead-on power of the song, about today, in America.

It's eerie how it forecasts precisely what is happening right now on our border.

 

[Paidiske]

If anyone doubts that assessment, check out how many churches have or are building their sets with pallet walls and LED tape. It's all hideous.

Well, honestly, anyone who uses the language of "sets" to describe their sanctuary has given you a clue to the problem. When theatre replaces worship, are we surprised that people don't find it compelling?

 

[Occams Barber]

It's not numbers that matter. Christ said the number would be "few", which might mean a small percentage of the population.
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."

It's never been the case, not even once anywhere in the world is my guess, that a majority of any nation was following Him. Instead, there was a time here in the U.S., and in Europe, and some other nations when many pretended to be Christian, because that was socially advantageous. All social and business contacts were in churches, and it was what you did on Sunday, regardless of what you believed.

I routinely was able to talk to people in churches back then and find non believers attending, because that's what everyone did. It was the tradition.

Today, when I talk to people in churches, I find the overwhelming majority are today believers, and it's hard to find any non believer at all. The non-believers have left. This isn't bad, but it is very interesting. Christ foretold more than just a few things about the progression of changes that would come.

I appreciate that you are sincere in your belief Halbhh but your argument about less Christians being better does sound a little like post hoc justification. The corollary to your argument would be to see growth in Christian numbers as a bad thing.

There are a number of Christians on CF who would agree that Christians numbers are reducing down to a core of 'true believers' and that this is a good thing. There are also many others who see the loss of numbers as a bad thing brought about by an increasingly sinful world.

Who's right?
OB

 

[Tanj]

Can I have my thread back please. I'd rather it die a dignified death than be carriage to this discussion about Sydney-sider evangelicals.

 

[Occams Barber]

Can I have my thread back please. I'd rather it die a dignified death than be carriage to this discussion about Sydney-sider evangelicals.

My sincerest apologies for being part of a conspiracy to hijack your thread. I am overcome with remorse. I shall say no more.
OB