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What??? Are you accusing me of not having sound doctrine?:o
You are making quite a blanket statement, don't you think?
To me, it does not matter whether or not they deide to bring it back.
Creeds and confessions have their roots in Catholicism. Not that that is a bad thing, per se, but, given the history of Baptists in general, we refuse to be made to affirm a creed or confession of any kind.
Now I might agree to all the principles on which the Nicene Creed was founded upon, but I refuse to be made to affirm it as required to be a member of something.
"Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil." -Mt. 5:33-37 (KJV)
"But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation." -Jas. 5:12 (KJV)
Being a Baptist, I will not be made to swear to, neither affirm any creed or confession.
God Bless
Till all are one.
So, do you hold to the Baptist Distinctives?
DeaconDean said:I might agree to all the principles on which the Nicene Creed was founded upon, but I refuse to be made to affirm it as required to be a member of something.
"Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil." -Mt. 5:33-37 (KJV)
"But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation." -Jas. 5:12 (KJV)
Being a Baptist, I will not be made to swear to, neither affirm any creed or confession.
the purpose of this statement of faith and message to set forth certain teachings which we believe."
Like I said, I may agree to the principles on which it was written
but I have not been made to affirm, or sware by any creed or even Baptist confession.
And unless I'm mistaken, nowhere is it required by any Baptist Christian to affirm any creed or confession in order to be part of the Baptist faith.
When I joined the church I'm a member of now, i was asked three questions:
Did I believe I was saved?
Would I use my time, tithes, and tallents for the good of the church?
And would I help win the lost to Christ?
I was never asked: Do you affirm the Baptist Faith and Message of 2000?
Or: Do you affirm the 2nd London Confession?
No sir, like I said before:
At: http://www.sbc.net/bfm/, it says:
But absolutely nowhere does it say we have to affirm it or sware by it!!!
God Bless
Till all are one.
So then, you do believe in a creed.
I understand where you're coming from and my point is not that we should affirm creeds or deny them, but just that creeds and confessions are not bad in and of themselves and that all Christians, whether they realize it or not, do hold to one creed or confession or another.
I, personally, don't think you should be afraid of them. They're not an endorsement of Roman Catholicism, but just a handy way to codify our doctrine so that we can be clear on it and be unified around it.
Well, you have your opinions, and I have mine.
I suppose we do, but the fact remains that, whether you want to believe it or not, you do hold to some creeds and confessions.
WarEagle said:If the last time was any indication, I imagine I'll be asking why the moderators aren't enforcing it and why people are allowed to deny key tenets of the creed and still call themselves Christians.
WarEagle said:And then I'll get the obligatory infraction for daring to ask why some posters are allowed to get away with breaking that rule.
Prove it!
But you fail to see that there is a difference between using a tool and being made to affirm to hold to something.
But all I have seen from you in the last little while is tearing down, not building up.
So why are you here?
Do you affirm or deny the tenets of the Apostles' Creed?
WarEagle said:You're the one who keeps making it about "being made" to affirm them, not me.
WarEagle said:When did I tear you down?
WarEagle said:Because it's an open thread and I'm allowed to post here.
I see. So then the Nicene Creed is more of a creed than the Apostle's Creed?
OK. I'll play along: do you affirm or do you deny the tenets of the Nicene Creed?
So, if that's correct and you're the one making it the issue, why are claiming that I'm the one making it the issue.
I didn't say anything about moderator actions. I asked you to back up your claim that I've torn you down.
Discussion of Moderator actions is forbidden in the open forums.
Perhaps that's because there's so much fault to be found.
Have you really never wondered why there are so many good posters appealing their infractions? Did you really never wonder why so many good moderators and posters left after Irwin made his changes? Have you really never wondered why so many message boards have been started by former ChristianForums members and why so many members, such as myself, are flocking there?
I post on another Christian message board and am good cyber friends with the mods and admin (I was offered a mod position and have helped to consult them on doctrinal and practical matters in the past). The administrator of that board told me that there are so many people leaving ChristianForums and signing up there that they were actually backed up so badly that it took them up to three weeks to confirm new members.
You can try to paint me as some crackpot lone gunman, but the truth is that many, many posters here have a problem with the way things are done and you know that.
I agree. I don't see what that has to do with anything here, but I agree that we should be subject to the government.
Who wrote the Nicene/Apostles Creed?
I repeat:
From the rules:
Issues with staff decisions should be taken to the staff member, then the reconciliation team, period. Don't post them, don't PM them to others, don't take them to Lee.
If there is, why do you keep coming back here?
So what has that got to do with the price of tea in China? Or the current issue at hand?
So I'm not a higher power?
Being a Deacon in the Baptist church.
To the person who reported me for saying that the moderators don't enforce the Nicene Creed, go ahead and report me all you like, but it happens to be true.
When the rules stated that one must adhere to the Nicene Creed to be considered a Christian, several posters were allowed to call themselves Christians even though they denied key tenets of the Nicene Creed.
Rochir and united4peace, for example, both deny the resurrection of Christ, and the atonement of Christ.
So, I did not "lie" about staff, as you claimed. I have these two examples to back up what I said as the truth.
Likewise, I did not lie about staff when I said that staff do not enforce the rules evenly.
For example, somebody can falsely accuse me of flaming (such as you have done) and that's a violation of the rules and I am either censored or given an infraction.
However, when somebody flames me, I'm just told to choose not to be offended.
Have you ever gone and read the posts by atheists in General Apologetics?
The rules say that they are not allowed to mock Christianity or God. And yet, the moderators allow the mockery of God and of Christianity in virtually every thread.
In fact, some threads are started for the sole purpose of mocking God and yet, the moderators stand by and do nothing to enforce the rule against blasphemy and mocking God.
So, again, I do have evidence.
The tenets of the two creeds are based on God's word.
Do you affirm or do you deny the tenets expressed in these creeds?
Judges all things by the Bible, and is judged only by the Bible, aka - "Sola Scriptura";
And, again, I didn't say anything about moderator actions. I'm asking you to back up your claims about my actions.
You claim that I tore you down. When did I ever tear you down?
Because I have a ministry here and the good I'm able to do through that ministry outweighs the nonsense I have to put up with.
You're not the government. That's what the passage you cited is refering to.
I'm an elder in a Baptist church. In church hierarchy, an elder is over a deacon. Does that mean that you should subject yourself to me?
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