Voluntary Assisted Dying Legalised in South Australia

[Bradskii]

Murder/suicide

If someone voluntarily puts themself in a position where they know they are going to be killed, what would you call that?

 

[returntosender]

Argumentum ad labelum. It's not murder if it's legal. It may or may not be suicide, but so what?

Looking at it from a Christian perspective.

 

[returntosender]

If someone voluntarily puts themself in a position where they know they are going to be killed, what would you call that?

Suicide

 

[Bradskii]

Suicide

I was thinking of someone mentioned in the bible. My apologies for the trick question. But it shows that there are different interpretations as to what these terms actually mean to the people involved.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Looking at it from a Christian perspective.

So tell me what that perspective is. I was a Christian for a long time. I never saw a prohibition for it in the Bible. It's possible I missed it. As far as I can recall, the only reason Christians can come up with is calling it "self-murder". As I said, if it is legal it isn't murder.

 

[kiwimac]

Suicide and assisted dying are complicated from a biblical standpoint. The Jews generally did not approve of suicide but the OT is ambivalent about suicide[1] and then there is Masada and for the very early Christian church it was essentially acceptable to put oneself in a situation where the authorities would kill you for being Christian.

[1]: Note here the following: (Judg 9:52-54); Where Abimelech, mortally wounded by a millstone, ordered his armor-bearer to kill him because he did not want to be known as one killed by a woman. [ii](2Sam 17:23); The prophet Ahithophel hangs himself after betraying David. [iii] (1Kgs 16:18); Zimri burned down his palace around himself after military defeat. [iv] (1Sam 1:1-6; 1Chr 10:1-6); The story of Saul and his armor-bearer. [v] (Judg 16:28); Samson and, of course; (Matt 27:3-5; compare with Acts 1:18); Judas—although it is only in Matthew’s Gospel where he kills himself.

Reading those passages, you will struggle to find any disapproval of those actions mentioned in the Bible.

 

[returntosender]

So tell me what that perspective is. I was a Christian for a long time. I never saw a prohibition for it in the Bible. It's possible I missed it. As far as I can recall, the only reason Christians can come up with is calling it "self-murder". As I said, if it is legal it isn't murder.

As Christians we believe that God has a plan for each of us. Suicide is not in that plan. Cutting ones life short shows lack of faith in God and his plan for us. It is taking a life so you could say it is also murder. Since you no longer believe, God's laws no longer apply to you?
Thou shalt not kill.
This answer is as simple as it gets. I am sure a theologian could bring you a more educated answer.
God bless you. You obviously are disappointed in him but he still loves you.

 

[Bradskii]

As Christians we believe that God has a plan for each of us. Suicide is not in that plan. Cutting ones life short shows lack of faith in God and his plan for us. It is taking a life so you could say it is also murder. Since you no longer believe, God's laws no longer apply to you?
Thou shalt not kill.
This answer is as simple as it gets. I am sure a theologian could bring you a more educated answer.
God bless you. You obviously are disappointed in him but he still loves you.

Your signature implies that you like cats and dogs. I'd assume that if your dog was old and in pain you'd put her out of her misery. I'm befuddled by the fact that so many people would take pity oon their pet but not their parent.

 

[Occams Barber]

As Christians we believe that God has a plan for each of us. Suicide is not in that plan. Cutting ones life short shows lack of faith in God and his plan for us. It is taking a life so you could say it is also murder. Since you no longer believe, God's laws no longer apply to you?
Thou shalt not kill.
This answer is as simple as it gets. I am sure a theologian could bring you a more educated answer.
God bless you. You obviously are disappointed in him but he still loves you.

Ten US states along with the District of Columbia have laws allowing assisted dying.
Assisted suicide in the United States - Wikipedia

In a 2020 Gallup poll 74% of Americans agreed with doctor assisted dying for terminally ill patients.
FS-Medical-Aid-in-Dying-Survey-Results-FINAL-updated-6.25.20.pdf (compassionandchoices.org)

It appears that many of your fellow Christians disagree with you.

OB

 

[returntosender]

[

 

[returntosender]

Ten US states along with the District of Columbia have laws allowing assisted dying.
Assisted suicide in the United States - Wikipedia

In a 2020 Gallup poll 74% of Americans agreed with doctor assisted dying for terminally ill patients.
FS-Medical-Aid-in-Dying-Survey-Results-FINAL-updated-6.25.20.pdf (compassionandchoices.org)

It appears that many of your fellow Christians disagree with you.

OB

Oh well. I guess they have that right.

 

[returntosender]

Your signature implies that you like cats and dogs. I'd assume that if your dog was old and in pain you'd put her out of her misery. I'm befuddled by the fact that so many people would take pity oon their pet but not their parent.

I am surprised you can't see the difference.

 

[returntosender]

Oh well. I guess they have that right.

Sometimes I wish they were right.

 

[Bradskii]

I am surprised you can't see the difference.

The point is that there is a huge difference.

 

[returntosender]

The point is that there is a huge difference.

I agree with you but I think we are agreeing on two different things, lol

 

[Occams Barber]

Sometimes I wish they were right.

I'm not sure if you've ever been in a situation where you get to determine when someone dies.

I have -three times - including both parents and a sister. The most recent was 4 weeks ago.

In all three cases the decision was related to whether we should or should not resuscitate in a life threatening event. At that time the option of assisted dying was not in force.

I can tell you that in all three cases, if assisted dying was available, I would have agreed to it. In all three cases I agreed to and encouraged non-interference, allowing the person to die with dignity and without pain.

I don't believe that these decisions were related to my not being a Christian. In that situation I suspect that religious (or non-religious) beliefs become secondary considerations when faced with the possibility of easing a lingering and painful death.

OB

 

[Paidiske]

@Occams Barber I'm sorry to hear of your recent loss.

 

[Bradskii]

@Occams Barber Likewise. My condolences.

 

[Occams Barber]

@Occams Barber I'm sorry to hear of your recent loss.

Thanks Paidiske (and @Bradskii )

The Old Man turned 100 in January so it was only a matter of time. Once he got his letter from the Queen I suspect his interest in carrying on waned a little. The worst bit for me was the year of 3.00am calls which turned out to be false alarms.

He died in a nursing home in Regional Vic too far away for me to get there in time. Getting there was a three day drive complicated by Covid borders. Between dementia and morphine I wasn't missed.

OB

 

[Paidiske]

Still, that's tough on you. I hope you've got folks around you who are looking after you.