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Virginia HB961 - Actual gun confiscation unless you register it with the state

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by 98cwitr, Jan 14, 2020.

  1. Speedwell

    Speedwell Well-Known Member

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    The presence of a gun in the "black market" means someone who legally owned a gun either had it stolen or sold it carelessly. And you think registered ownership would not help solve that problem. OK.
     
  2. dogs4thewin

    dogs4thewin dog lover Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    It would not solve gun crimes because the mere fact that I did not report a gun missing would not prove who DID commit the more violent crime. Nor, would background checks do much if the person had a clean background and did something. Which remember, the only way you get a conviction is one getting caught and two either admitting guilt or the state having enough to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.
     
  3. 98cwitr

    98cwitr Lord forgive me Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    ???
     
  4. Speedwell

    Speedwell Well-Known Member

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    No, but if you had been more careful (something registered ownership would encourage) the gun might not have gone missing to begin with. Further, the fact that the gun had a known owner at a certain point might be a clue as to whose hands it had been in subsequently.


    Yes, if the police find a registered gun at a crime scene they may discover that it belongs to a person with a clean record. So what?
     
  5. dogs4thewin

    dogs4thewin dog lover Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    Currently a mass shooting is defined as any time four or more people are shot. If they increased the number ( because if you asks me is not mass OR they said for example a mass shooting is only when four or more people are shot unrelated to another crime to narrow down to strictly big public shootings for no reason at all handguns probably would not be most mass shootings.
     
  6. whatbogsends

    whatbogsends Senior Veteran

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    You seem to think that because there is an age cutoff that the applicability of the law due to a 1 day disparity makes the law unjust. It's an absurd premise.

    You think it's different between age 18 and someone who's 12?

    Well, according to you, there's no difference between someone who's 18 years old and someone who's 17 years, 11 months, and 29 days, correct?

    Let's extrapolate.

    Is there a difference between someone who's 17 years, 11 months, and 29 days and 17 years, 11 months, and 28 days?

    Is there a difference between someone who's 17 years, 11 months, and 28 days and 17 years, 11 months, and 27 days?

    Is there a difference between someone who's 17 years, 11 months, and 27 days and 17 years, 11 months, and 26 days?

    Is there a difference between someone who's 17 years, 11 months, and 26 days and 17 years, 11 months, and 25 days?

    Is there a difference between someone who's 17 years, 11 months, and 25 days and 17 years, 11 months, and 24 days?

    Is there a difference between someone who's 17 years, 11 months, and 24 days and 17 years, 11 months, and 23 days?
    ...
    Is there a difference between someone who's 13 years, 0 months, and 1 day and 13 years, 0 months, and 0 days?

    Is there a difference between someone who's 13 years, 0 months, and 0 days and 12 years, 11 months, and 29 days?

    At some point there's going to be a cut off. Unless your argument is that there should never be laws that use age as a measure (drinking age, voting age, age for minor/adult), then there will ALWAYS be a 1-day cutoff between the legality which appears trivial in reality, but is meaningful in law.
     
  7. dogs4thewin

    dogs4thewin dog lover Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    Meaning that if I sell a gun say I did a background check came back clean the next week the gun was used to commit a crime was I careless in selling the gun if I did a background check and had no reason to believe the person would do anything.
     
  8. Paulos23

    Paulos23 Never tell me the odds!

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    And I am saying maybe we should extend that to the general population of gun owners.
     
  9. dogs4thewin

    dogs4thewin dog lover Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    If a teenager commits a crime with a gun and the parents had no reason to know that the teenager might such as a history of mental health issues or a violent history that parent should NOT face charges for that teen's behavior unless the parent voluntarly gave the gun to the teen knowing that. At some point it should be considered acceptable to leave your gun unsecured for self defense purposes around minors. Now, if we are talking about leaving a gun in easy access of a very young child like a toddler that is different. Althoughm really a kid that young should never be left alone.
     
  10. dogs4thewin

    dogs4thewin dog lover Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    Why? If someone is not using it in public why take the same safety course?
     
  11. 98cwitr

    98cwitr Lord forgive me Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    Even if it was 10, handguns would still be at the top of the list. The ONLY mass shooting that would apply to your sentiment, to my knowledge (and I probably need to refresh things), would be Las Vegas. That said, 10k people die a year from DUI related accidents; should we look at repealing the 21st amendment and reinstating the 18th?
     
  12. RocksInMyHead

    RocksInMyHead God is innocent; Noah built on a floodplain!

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    Not all do - Montana, Alabama, Missouri and Indiana (at least, I haven't checked every state) do not require any training courses. Also, many more states allow open carry without a permit, which is another viable alternative for carrying a gun in public.

    Edit: found the full list of states that don't require permits Constitutional Carry / Unrestricted / Permitless Carry | USCCA

    Indiana requires a permit, but no training
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
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  13. 98cwitr

    98cwitr Lord forgive me Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    Montana is actually a FFA state. You can legally (according to state law but not federal) own a suppressor in Montana without going through the ATF/NFA requirements as long as the suppressor is produced in the state and you never travel outside of the state with it.

    Firearms Freedom Act
     
  14. Paulos23

    Paulos23 Never tell me the odds!

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    Because lately, to many people have been taking them into public places and have not been acting safely. Or, they have had misjudged if they need to use them, or how to use them.

    Some advanced training would cut down on such issues.
     
  15. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

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    The black market isn't a place....it's just a term used, in this context, to describe the illegal sale and trade of firearms.

    It just so happens those are a couple of the gun crimes that are easier to fight when there's a gun registry.
     
  16. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

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    My guess is the visibility of assault rifles in mass shootings....they tend to get more coverage in the press.

    Gun legislation is a pretty common issue on the left, and going after assault rifles is way to show "they're doing something" in a visible way.

    It's their "border wall" in a way. It'll probably stop some high profile crimes....but you're correct, the majority of gun crimes in general are committed with pistols.
     
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  17. dogs4thewin

    dogs4thewin dog lover Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    Yet, by body count rifles in general and assault rifles in particular take very few human lives a year, so would it not make sense if you are going to "do something" that you would at least go after what is likely to kill more people, as opposed to what kills more people AT A TIME.
     
  18. dogs4thewin

    dogs4thewin dog lover Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    I know the black market is a term not a place. That is actually the point of it people that buy stuff in general on the black market drugs, guns whatever else do not give a darn that they are not supposed to have it; whatever it is.
     
  19. Belk

    Belk Senior Member Supporter

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    No, this is set state by state. For a CCW in my state you only need to pass a background check.
     
  20. 98cwitr

    98cwitr Lord forgive me Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    So shouldn't we scrutinize media bias and push back for effective measure to save lives? Rather than focusing on the tool used, isn't imperative we understand the root causes what was is encouraging people to commit these crimes? At least from my research, the solution to this is to reestablish fathers in the homes by removing the incentives that kicked them out in the first place (see Johnson's "Model Cities" program from 1965...that's where a lot of this started)?

    While common, is it justified? My answer is absolutely not.

    Agreed! Not to segue, but guns save lives more than they take the lives of innocent people.
     
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