Views on Wicca

[JWNEWMAN]

Wiccan_Child,

I'm assuming you are young. Given that you don't comprehend my use of metaphors. If I say someone is beyond pain, it is not a literal statement, nor does it refer to physical pain... I suppose there is no need to expound on the issue you'll only find fault with these statements as well.

What I meant was, I assume, in your anger you're beyond "hearing" the voice of God.

You reject my love because you think it is an 'order' from my God and, call it, my concern for you, perverse?

That too, is your option. I believe the scriptures teaching can be tied up in two statements: Love God 1st, and Love you neighbor as yourself. Scriptures teach us to forgive one another our faults as we would be forgiven. So I also forgive your insults and your rejection of me just like Christ Jesus does. You may continue to reject God's love in your anger. That doesn't change it's intent or purpose.

I pray God's love will be made clear to you.

 

[ContentInHim]

Wiccan_Child - Jesus doesn't want you dead; he wants you saved and with him.

 

[Chie]

Satan is the master of deception, the father of all lies. There are many counterfeits, they are temporal and not everlasting, they will not be for eternity. Like so many things of this world, they too will pass away. What we have in Jesus, the Creator, is not for a season but forever.

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

My cousin is Pagan, Wiccan, and specifically a Druid. She's one of the nicest, most understanding people I've ever met and she's my closest cousin. Now I've been asking her about her beliefs and common base beliefs of Wiccans. And all the devil worshiping sacrificing babies garbage that's thrown around when a person hears 'Wicca' is false. It's actually a very free and spiritual faith. I'm looking more and more into it myself.

Now what are your views on it?

Wicca is one form of a pagan-type worship/belief system. It has come to be the common conception of "witchcraft" . . . but it is only one philosophy of the sympathetic majicks.

There are indeed the child sacrifices etc in forms of witchcraft . . . but not in Wicca.

But Wicca is NOT Christian . . . but then neither is your faith icon. ;0)

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

I grieved when my aunt and my grandfather were taken by cancer. End proof.


I pinch my skin, and it hurts. End proof.


I'm hoping that my resit on the 29th goes OK. I'm hoping that my OK. I'm hoping that the batteries don't die on my phone.
End proof.


Maybe, but what makes you think I'm such an emotionless wreck? Need I remind you of the forum rules?


Yes, I reject it. You declare your love for me only because your god demands such a declaration. Rather a perverted thing you got going on there JWNEWMAN.


I do not 'reject love', but I do reject the notion that your god is synonymous with love in all it's forms.


Quite.

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Belief is a subset of thought. If we did not have free will, then we would be absolutely content; we couldn't complain, unless God made us complain. Simple.
I'd rather be a willess automaton in utopia, than a moral agent in a world of suffering.

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Yes, such phenomena have been documented in a wide range of spiritual traditions, from praying nuns, to meditating Tibetian monks, to Jews at the Temple, to Hindus in the Ganges. All describe this 'awakening', or 'enlightenment', and all undergo similar neurohormonal responses. The effect is not unlike those on heavy hallucinogens.

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First, what makes you think I am worshipping false idols?
Second, what makes you think that the worship of false idols is synonymous with the worship of Satan?


How do you know that you are not worshipping Satan?

Second, what makes you think that the worship of false idols is synonymous with the worship of Satan?

Well from a Christian perspective (which you obviously don't share) it is.

1 Cor 10 says that idols are really demons.

Just for your info.

pax

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Wiccan_Child,

I'm assuming you are young. Given that you don't comprehend my use of metaphors.

I understand that you are using metaphors, and I was being deliberately facetious.

If I say someone is beyond pain, it is not a literal statement, nor does it refer to physical pain... I suppose there is no need to expound on the issue you'll only find fault with these statements as well.

If you did not mean to refer to physical pain, then do not use terminology that implies as such. You stated that I was in pain, yet I am not, neither physically, mentally, spiritually, etc.

What I meant was, I assume, in your anger you're beyond "hearing" the voice of God.

In my anger? Where did I display anger?

You reject my love because you think it is an 'order' from my God and, call it, my concern for you, perverse?

I cannot answer these question without brbreaching the forum rules.

That too, is your option. I believe the scriptures teaching can be tied up in two statements: Love God 1st, and Love you neighbor as yourself. Scriptures teach us to forgive one another our faults as we would be forgiven. So I also forgive your insults and your rejection of me just like Christ Jesus does.

And that's what I find perverse: you don't forgive because you want to, you forgive because you think you have to.

You may continue to reject God's love in your anger. That doesn't change it's intent or purpose.

To say I reject your god's love is pure sophistry: you are presuming the existance of your god, your god's love for me, and my knowledge of his love for me.

I pray God's love will be made clear to you.

I'd appreciate it if you concentrated your prayers to those who need it: the sick, the poor, the hungry, the needy. After all, if you don't pray, God won't know who to single out and help!

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Wiccan_Child - Jesus doesn't want you dead; he wants you saved and with him.

As a idolater, a liar, a thief, a dishonourer of my father, a blasphemer, a 'practicing homosexual', etc, I am condemned to death many, many times over by your Christ.

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Satan is the master of deception, the father of all lies. There are many counterfeits, they are temporal and not everlasting, they will not be for eternity. Like so many things of this world, they too will pass away. What we have in Jesus, the Creator, is not for a season but forever.

What makes you so certain that Satan, who you yourself admit to be the master of deception, didn't fabricate the Bible in order to lead people away from the True Faith™? Do call all religions, except your own, products of Satan is simply special pleading.

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Wicca is one form of a pagan-type worship/belief system. It has come to be the common conception of "witchcraft" . . . but it is only one philosophy of the sympathetic majicks.

There are indeed the child sacrifices etc in forms of witchcraft . . . but not in Wicca.

No form of witchcraft involves child sacrifices, or any form of blood ritual.

 

[ContentInHim]

You are sooo wrong, Wiccan Child. Your sin condemns you and Jesus will judge but he still loves you and wants you to be with him.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

You are sooo wrong, Wiccan Child. Your sin condemns you and Jesus will judge but he still loves you and wants you to be with him.

On the contrary:
1) God condemns practicing homosexuals to death (Lev 18:22, et al)
2) Jesus is God.
3) I am a practicing homosexual.
4) Therefore, Jesus condemns me to death.
So I stand by my statement: Jesus wants me dead.

 

[JWNEWMAN]

WiccanChild wrote: If you did not mean to refer to physical pain, then do not use terminology that implies as such. You stated that I was in pain, yet I am not, neither physically, mentally, spiritually, etc.

Previously, said you understood I was using metaphors. What I meant literally is, you are beyond hearing the voice of God because of your anger and probably feelings of rejection due to your understanding of God's teachings and its rejection of your lifestyle.

Still God loves you. Your lifestyle doesn't prohibit God's love. However, it does interfere with your perception of his love.

Wiccan-Child wrote: In my anger? Where did I display anger?

In almost every sentence.

JWNEWMAN
That too, is your option. I believe the scriptures teaching can be tied up in two statements: Love God 1st, and Love you neighbor as yourself. Scriptures teach us to forgive one another our faults as we would be forgiven. So I also forgive your insults and your rejection of me just like Christ Jesus does.

Wiccan-Child wrote: And that's what I find perverse: you don't forgive because you want to, you forgive because you think you have to.

Love is something I aspire to. Just as I aspire to gentleness, kindness, meekness, wisdom, understanding, etc. I believe God is Love and, I don't simply do it because I think I have to. The greatest learning experience and greatest joy I've experienced has come through learning to let go of bitterness and express love even towards those who've harmed me. It is beyond liberating to have that kind of power running through you. Love is indeed powerful. It's a high. I aspire to walk in Love because it's wonderful beyond words to do so. As much as for any other reason.

Besides, I believe God is my father so following his advise is not perverse. Is it perverse to follow the advice of a wise mentor?


Quote:
Originally Posted by JWNEWMAN
You may continue to reject God's love in your anger. That doesn't change it's intent or purpose.

Wiccan-Child wrote:To say I reject your god's love is pure sophistry: you are presuming the existance of your god, your god's love for me, and my knowledge of his love for me.

Sophistry? Does that not imply I'm trying to deceive you? I presume their is a creator as much as I presume their is a creation. I can see the handiwork in the intricacy of the design, therefor, I know their is a designer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JWNEWMAN
I pray God's love will be made clear to you.

Wiccan-Child wrote:I'd appreciate it if you concentrated your prayers to those who need it: the sick, the poor, the hungry, the needy. After all, if you don't pray, God won't know who to single out and help!

I'll assume you need help also. I know I do. You do seem angry to me. Sarcasm is usually spurned by anger.
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[JWNEWMAN]

Wiccan-Child,

I have to admit I don't know much about Wicca, so I'm studying the subject. This is a link I found: http://www.wicca.com/celtic/wicca/wicca.htm

Does this look like a good place to study?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

PWhat I meant literally is, you are beyond hearing the voice of God because of your anger

Yes, you keep saying I have anger, yet I keep telling you: I am not. Why would I be angry at something I don't believe in? It's like being angry at the tooth fairy for not bringing you money when you're an adult.

and probably feelings of rejection due to your understanding of God's teachings and its rejection of your lifestyle.

Like I said, I don't believe in your god. Why, then, would I feel rejected?

In almost every sentence.

As far as I am aware, I have made no hostile or otherwise heated remark, to you or to anything else. Could you give an example? Simply stating that it is in almost every sentence is tantamount to hand-waving, and is hardly productive to our discussion.

Besides, I believe God is my father so following his advise is not perverse. Is it perverse to follow the advice of a wise mentor?

It is wrong to follow a wise mentor simply because he is a wise mentor, or your father simply because he is your father. As Gautama Buddha said:
Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.

Sophistry? Does that not imply I'm trying to deceive you?

It implies that I percieve deception via wordplay, specifically in the form of loaded statements.

I presume their is a creator as much as I presume their is a creation. I can see the handiwork in the intricacy of the design, therefor, I know their is a designer.

I disagree that the universe displays evidence of design, and I disagree that evidence of design implies a designer.

I'll assume you need help also.

Yes, we've established that you think I need help.

I know I do. You do seem angry to me. Sarcasm is usually spurned by anger.

Actually sarcasm is considered the lowest form of wit (though I consider it a rather high form). That said, I wasn't being sarcastic; if you are going to expend efforts pleading to your deity to aid a particular person, then I'd rather you did it to a starving or diseased child.

Wiccan-Child,

I have to admit I don't know much about Wicca, so I'm studying the subject. This is a link I found: http://www.wicca.com/celtic/wicca/wicca.htm

Does this look like a good place to study?

I have been on that website a few times, and I don't like it's aggressive attitude towards Christians. Note the following quotations from that one page:

• Contrary to what those who choose to persecute or lie about us wish to believe...
• ...due to the efforts of the medieval church to wipe our existence from history...
• Because Witches have been persecuted for so many centuries...
• Satan is a Christian creation and they can keep him. We do not need a paranoid creation of supreme evil and eternal damnation to scare us into doing the right thing and helping others. We choose to do the right thing and love our brothers and sisters because it IS the right thing and it feels good to do it. I suppose it is a maturity thing.

It is such a self-pitying attitude that makes people see Wicca as a non-serious religion, or a cult specifically created to oppose percieved Christian propaganda.

Also, the website makes erroneous statements about Wiccan morality, the morality of Witches, and the relationship between Wicca and Witchcraft.

While it is a good site to learn the basics of Wicca and Witchcraft, do not take it all to heart. Reading a range of sites, and keeping an eye out for those with an obvious chip on the shoulder, is the best way to learn about any religion.

 

[JWNEWMAN]

Wiccan-Child,

Well, if you can presume deception in my words I suppose it's fair for me to presume anger in yours.

Wicca, then, is simply witchcraft. I did find one interesting notation. God and Goddess reference. I don't believe God is male. Scriptures teach man was made in God's image male and female. In that respect we agree, God the Creator of mankind is both male and female in attributes.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Wicca, then, is simply witchcraft.

Not quite. Wicca is a religion, and witchcraft is a system of magick.
One can be Wiccan without being a Witch, or one can be a Witch without being Wiccan, or one can be both, or one can be neither. The two go hand in hand very easily, but they are fundamentally different. Witches, for instance, are not bound by the Wiccan Rede, nor does witchcraft have primary deities.

I did find one interesting notation. God and Goddess reference. I don't believe God is male. Scriptures teach man was made in God's image male and female. In that respect we agree, God the Creator of mankind is both male and female in attributes.

Alas, if only it were that simple. Basically, I believe that gods came after sentient life; that is, the creation of the universe and the evolution of conciousness was purely atheistic. Did the primordial deities, spawned from the whims and desires of those first sentients, influence the evolution of life thereafter? Who knows. But I do not believe that humanity is particularily special, nor that is it the apex of divine will.
That is, I do not believe that any god had an especially keen hand in human evolution.

 

[chris777]

Satanists worship Satan - they are not Christian.

Another view is that satan is the enemy of God, and that everything that contradicts God and his word, is against him as well, Jesus said whoever is not for him is against him, and that makes it ultimately ....