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Featured view of morality and ethics can rise no higher then your view of God

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by BobRyan, Apr 24, 2017.

  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Consider this -

    Man will never achieve a morality or concept of ethics that is higher than his/her view of God.

    Does that not explain to some extent the actions of violent Muslims?

    In every case they affirm that their view of God affirms their actions and that he is just like them if not more so - in that regard

    Thoughts?
     
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  2. Brotherly Spirit

    Brotherly Spirit Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I agree, what's in your heart and mind is how you interpret and practice. Not everything about God is clear to us, at best we're trying to understand. Usually people impose their own will and desires on God, creating their own ideas supporting what they personally belief.
     
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  3. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Sometimes reforming God into an image that better reflects their desire for a god. Most who do this don't realize they are, thankfully... but we do see this today.
     
  4. Colter

    Colter Member

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    I agree, this truth reminds me of the view of God in the Old Testament, it's largely created in the image of the holy men who wrote, edited, redacted and rewrote it. Today the teaching of the false doctrine of the inspiration of scripture is a stumbling block for those who might find the true God.

    When we read in Bible books stuff like this: "Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." (Numbers 31:16-18)

    ......then I know that's the thinking and behavior of men projected onto God. Modern day ISIS behaves in this way.
     
  5. Colter

    Colter Member

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    I agree, this truth reminds me of the view of God in the Old Testament, it's largely created in the image of the holy men who wrote, edited, redacted and rewrote it. Today the teaching of the false doctrine of the inspiration of scripture is a stumbling block for those who might find the true God.

    When we read in Bible books stuff like this: "Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." (Numbers 31:16-18)

    ......then I know that's the thinking and behavior of men projected onto God. Modern day ISIS behaves in this way.
     
  6. grasping the after wind

    grasping the after wind That's grasping after the wind

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    I do not quite understand what you mean by the word "higher". I also do not see how one achieves morality. One espouses or accepts a moral value system as far as I can tell. My personal view of what is right and wrong is shaped by my religious belief I did not need to achieve a concept of ethics or morality it was given to me and is simply something I decided to accept i.e I decided to have faith in the Christian God and believe in His version of the differentiation between what is good and what is evil.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2017
  7. Maria.V.H

    Maria.V.H Member

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    To me morality and ethics are not connected to God necessarily, it is connected to my emotional understanding. Yes, believing in God makes me more aware of things, but my personality is my personality it does not change a lot just because i believe in God.
     
  8. grasping the after wind

    grasping the after wind That's grasping after the wind

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    How does your personality even enter into it at all? Do you mean to tell us you base your morality upon your emotions?If it felt right to kill someone would that mean it was the morally right thing to do?
     
  9. Maria.V.H

    Maria.V.H Member

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    Are you angry??? In that case i bow in the dust, no need to kill me:) Yes, morality to me depends on my emotions, i should rather say my compassion level, sorry if you don´t agree. If a person kills someone because he or she feels like it, then yes that is his or her morality level, it depends from human to human. That is why there is atheists in this world that are better people than you and me, or could be, it´s all relative, it has nothing to do with faith i feel...
     
  10. grasping the after wind

    grasping the after wind That's grasping after the wind

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    I must say I have not often heard anyone be that honest about their morality. Many people seem to me to have the exact same basis for their morality as you but try to rationalize it as something more noble. My personal morality has everything to do with my faith and if I allowed my emotions to decide for me what was good or bad at any particular moment I would be a completely different person than I have come to be. I would not like that person at all and I am afraid that person would have a hard time coping with the consequences of his actions. I do believe that many atheists personal morality may well have to do with some code of conduct they believe to be based upon some overriding principle and not just their emotional state. For instance, I have heard some atheists espouse the "do no harm" principle of morality.

    I still wonder what your personality has to do with all this.
     
  11. grasping the after wind

    grasping the after wind That's grasping after the wind

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    If morality is completely relevant and you base your morality upon emotions, I would think that your statement here makes no sense. Under those circumstances, how is it possible for any person to be a better person than any other person? On what basis could we judge anyone to be better?
     
  12. Maria.V.H

    Maria.V.H Member

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    I don´t really know if i can explain it, but i will try.

    To me emotions are overwhelming, that is my personality, i am very emotional, i think i have a big heart, i can not see a homeless person without crying, Through the emotions i feel, i become the person i am, and everything is based on that even my morality because without this sensibility i would not have the morality i have, i hope:) The sensitivity i have is a compass for everything else, and i feel it is with all people but i could be wrong...
     
  13. grasping the after wind

    grasping the after wind That's grasping after the wind

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    For some seeing a homeless person does not elicit any emotional response at all, they are as unaffected as they would be by seeing a leaf in a tree. . For some it elicits a response of loathing. For others a response of annoyance( especially if the homeless person is asking them for something) .For some seeing a homeless person would require them to do something practical about that situation no matter what emotions the homeless person elicited. Crying may make you feel morally upright but is that a practical means of assisting the homeless person? Your tears are no more effective or helpful to that homeless person than the indifference of others. Does your crying equal a moral position at all? IMO one's morality is something one decides upon prior to any situation occurring not something that one feels in response to the occurrence. Emotions are somewhat involuntary responses while, again IMO, morality ought to a well thought out code of conduct which can then be applied to a situation to measure how well one lives up to one's expectations. Under my definition, to act morally would be to do what one said in advance was the good thing to do and to refrain from doing what one said in advance was the evil thing to do and to act immorally would be to do the opposite. Under your definition, there would be nothing one could describe as immoral unless it would be to act in contradiction to one's emotional state. I would then have to assume that if one were to refrain from harming one that one hated one would be acting immorally. So to forgive one's enemy would be an immoral act and to be a Christian and act as a Christian is told to act by Christ one would have to commit the immoral act of denying one's emotions. Therefore I do not see how one's faith can be totally divorced from morality when so much of faith revolves around what is right and what is wrong.
     
  14. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    It is easy to see how someone's concept of morality, ethics, right-and-wrong can be "lower" than their concept of God's ethics, morality, capriciousness, unconcern about humanity etc -- but it is harder to see how it would be "Higher" than their concept of the God that they worship and accept as the true God.
     
  15. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Then do you view yourself as more caring and compassionate than the God that you worship?
     
  16. grasping the after wind

    grasping the after wind That's grasping after the wind

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    Please explain what you mean by higher and lower.
     
  17. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Everyone demonstrates a level of morality, ethics, selfishness or selflessness to one degree or another. The OP makes the case that they will not rise higher in actual behavior - than their concept of the God that they worship.
     
  18. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Higher is more compassionate, more ethical, more righteous and selfless in your dealings with others.

    "Lower" is the inverse of that.
     
  19. Maria.V.H

    Maria.V.H Member

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    no!
     
  20. nonaeroterraqueous

    nonaeroterraqueous Nonexistent Member

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    This is a fantastic statement, and absolutely true. I'll take it one step farther:

    The highness of a man's view of God is rated by its accuracy, and his morality can be no better than his understanding of the true nature of God.

    Those who fail to understand the true nature of God will never have a sufficient sense of morality, and they will often make statements such as this:

    ...believing that an external source must be false because it conflicts with your internal source. In other words, you reject the inspiration of scripture in favor of the inspiration of yourself. Every morning when you look in the mirror, I encourage you to burn incense, sing worship songs and pray a prayer as you face your god.
     
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