Vietnam Veterans, What is your oppinion of Kerry?

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winteralfs

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Here is the interesting thing. Lets say the figure of 10% is accurate. (The commander's figure that 10% of vets had committed "atrocities") Aproxametly 2.5 million men served in active duty in Vietnam. That would mean aprox 250,000 men committed "atrocities" at one point or another. If each "atrocity" lead to an average of 2 deaths, some obviously led to many more then 2, that would account for at least 500,000 vietnamese civilians killed from american "atrocities". Now lets say half of those men had participated in 2 episodes of "atrocities", and half again had participated in more then 2 "atrocities". we can see how the numbers quickly escalate out of control.

4 million vietnamese civilians were estimated killed durring vietnam. Of course many were killed by the north, but using the math above, American kills could quickly reach 2-3 million or more. And thats assuming the 10% figure is accurate. If it is really 15, 20, or even 30 % then the we start to see the true scope of the problem.

This type of scenario would account for a majority of vets claiming to have not engaged in any "atrocity",( -upwards of 60 -70% or more) as well as the large number of civilian vietnamese casualities and genuine documented accounts of atrocities being committed.
 
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daidhaid

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Winteralfs makes many strong points.
I will add that many things were done in the field that were not percieved as violations, by the troops, because they were institutionalized standing orders.

The liberal overuse of free fire zones, H&I, the deliberate targeting of civilians, unmarked mines, and boobytrap,s weapons designed to wound, and proscribed weapons, deliberate destruction of civilian homes.
It was sop when you got there and sop when you left. The brass bears the blame for those types of abuses.

Many of the day to day practices were wrong. Not all war crimes are the My Lai or Tiger Force Headline events. Though there were many of those as well.
The fact is we intervened in a civil war and systematicaly tried to cleanse Viet Nam and re Vietnamese it to our liking. Not exactly a noble democratic effort.
 
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Gunny

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daidhaid said:
re the previous paste jobs.



John Kerry and the VVAW: Hanoi's American Puppets?

Newly discovered documents link Vietnam Veterans Against the War to Vietnamese communists

Two recently discovered documents captured from the Vietnamese communists during the Vietnam War strongly support the contention that a close link existed between the Hanoi regime and the Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW) while John Kerry served as the group's leading national spokesman.


The Circular: International Coordination of Antiwar Propaganda

The first document is a 1971 "Circular" distributed by the Vietnamese communists within Vietnam. It discusses strategies to coordinate their national propaganda effort with their orchestration of the activities of sympathetic counterparts in the American anti-war movement. Specifically, the document notes that the Vietcong and North Vietnamese delegations to the Paris Peace talks were being used as the communications link to direct the activities of anti-war activists meeting with them in Paris. To quote from the document:

The spontaneous antiwar movements in the US have received assistance and guidance from the friendly ((VC/NVN)) delegations at the Paris Peace Talks.

-- Circular on Antiwar Movements in the US. The reference to "VC" indicates the Vietcong; "NVN" is the North Vietnamese government.

This sentence is particularly important in light of John Kerry's admission that he met with leaders of both communist delegations to the Paris Peace Talks in June 1970, including Madame Binh, foreign minister of the Provisional Revolutionary Government (PRG) of South Vietnam, also known as the Vietcong. FBI files record that Kerry returned to Paris to meet with the North Vietnamese delegation in August of 1971, and planned a third trip in November.

Prior to the discovery of the Circular, there was no direct evidence that Hanoi was actually steering the U.S. antiwar movement's activities by conveying Hanoi's goals and wishes to movement leaders during their frequent visits to Paris, though many investigators had assumed that to be the case. Further analysis of this document supports the contention that Madame Binh used her Paris meeting with John Kerry to instruct him on how he and the VVAW might best serve as Hanoi's surrogates in the United States. In the spring and summer of 1971, a key strategy of Hanoi was to advance what was known as Madame Binh's Seven Point Peace Plan.

The plan was cleverly constructed to force President Nixon to set a date to end the Vietnam War and withdraw American troops. According to the 7-Point Peace Plan of Madame Binh, the only barrier to Hanoi setting a date to release American Prisoners of War was President Nixon’s unwillingness to set a specific date for military withdrawal. Of course, accepting the full terms of the 7-Point Peace Plan would have amounted to an American capitulation, a virtual surrender that included the payment of reparations to the Vietnam communists as an admission that America was the wrongful aggressor in an immoral war.

A section of the Circular titled "PREPARATION FOR THE FALL ((1971)) ANTIWAR MOVEMENT" makes clear the importance the Vietnamese Communists placed on advancing Madame Binh's 7-Point Peace Plan within the United States:

The seven-point peace proposal ((of the SVN Provisional Revolutionary Government)) not only solved problems concerning the release of US prisoners but also motivated the people of all walks of life and even relatives of US pilots detained in NVN to participate in the antiwar movement.

-- Circular on Antiwar Movements in the US. "SVN" indicates the South Vietnam Provisional Revolutionary Government, i.e., the Vietcong. "NVN" refers to North Vietnam.

And again, highlighting how the Vietnamese communists viewed the activities of the US antiwar movement, US politics, and politics in South Vietnam as interconnected; all to be targeted by Madame Binh's 7-Point Peace Plan:

The Nixon-Thieu clique is very embarrassed because the seven-point peace proposal is supported by the SVN people's (( political struggle)) movement and the antiwar movements in the US. Therefore, all local areas, units, and branches must widely disseminate the seven-point peace proposal, step up the people's ((political struggle)) movements both in cities and rural areas, taking advantage of disturbances and dissensions in the enemy's forthcoming (RVN) Congressional and Presidential elections. They must coordinate more successfully with the antiwar movements in the US so as to isolate the Nixon-Thieu clique.

-- Circular on Antiwar Movements in the US. "RVN" refers to the Republic of Vietnam, the government in South Vietnam supported by the US.

POW Families: Targets of the Vietnamese Communists

Late in 1970, a defecting Vietcong organizer described a communist plan to use Vietcong sympathizers in the US to recruit family members of American POWs held captive in North Vietnam. The following summary of his interview was provided to the House Foreign Affairs Committee:

The Viet Cong plan to continue their efforts to win worldwide opinion to their side and to solicit as much material support for the VC struggle as possible from other countries in order to create a favorable climate for the VC at the Paris Peace Conference.

The Viet Cong will continue to promote domestic unrest against the war in the United States in order to speed withdrawal of US troops and create pressure for an end to the war.

Efforts will be directed toward the US soldier in Vietnam to demand that they be returned to the US and be reunited with their families and wives.

The VC will strive to create anti-draft and anti-war attitudes in the US by organizing VC sympathizers in the US to contact families with sons in Vietnam and urge them to call their sons home. Also VC sympathizers in the US will be organized to distribute anti-draft leaflets to students and young people.

On February 1, 1971, at their Winter Soldier Investigation in Detroit, the VVAW released a statement by Virginia Warner, mother of American POW Jim Warner, urging President Nixon to "end the war so the prisoners of war can come home." Jim Warner has accused John Kerry of exploiting his mother's fears to obtain this statement.

On July 22, 1971, John Kerry held a press conference in Washington, DC, to call upon President Nixon to accept Madame Binh's 7-Point Peace Plan. Kerry surrounded himself at the press conference with POW wives, parents and sisters who had been recruited to promote his message. The event was reported in The New York Times of July 23, 1971 and the communist Daily World of July 24, 1971. Each article included a photograph of Kerry surrounded by POW family members.

Kerry's use of POW families directly advanced the North Vietnamese communist agenda as described by enemy defectors and in the newly discovered Circular, which suggests that Madame Binh had recommended the same course of action to antiwar activists meeting with her in Paris.

[Note: A number of POW families were contacted by a "liason" group headed by Cora Weiss, the daughter of Communist Party financier Samuel Rubin, with offers to provide mail and information about their husbands if the families agreed to publicly denounce the war. Most POW family members refused to cooperate with this extortion, even when promised better treatment for their husbands or sons in Hanoi. Four angry POW wives protested at Kerry's July press conference, one of whom accused Kerry of "constantly using our own suffering and grief" to advance his political ambitions.]

The Directive: Supporting the US Domestic Insurgency

The second document, captured by US military forces in South Vietnam on May 12, 1972, is a communist Directive designed to motivate discussions within Vietnam about promoting the ongoing antiwar activities in the United States. The fifth paragraph of this document makes clear that the Vietnamese communists were utilizing for their propaganda purposes the activities of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War. The protest described as occurring from April 19 through April 22, 1971 coincides directly with the dates of Dewey Canyon III, the Washington, DC, protest led by John Kerry, during which John Kerry’s testimony before Senator Fulbright's Foreign Relations Committee was a televised centerpiece. The description of the protest activities in the Directive even include the "return their medals" ceremony in which John Kerry and other VVAW members threw their medals and/or ribbons toward the steps of the US Capitol, with several shouting threats of violence against their government as they did so.

The Connection: The People's Committee for Peace and Justice

Another key discussion in the documents reveals the degree to which the Vietnamese communists were working with and through the PCPJ (People's Coalition for Peace and Justice. The Circular, immediately after disclosing how the communist delegations to the Paris Peace talks were being used to guide the US antiwar movement, stresses the importance of the PCPJ to these efforts:

Of the US antiwar movements, the two most important ones are: The PCPJ ((the People's Committee for Peace and Justice)) and the NPAC ((National Peace Action Committee)). These two movements have gathered much strength and staged many demonstrations. The PCPJ is the most important. It maintains relations with us.

-- Circular on Antiwar Movements in the US (emphasis added).

The House Internal Security Committee in its 1971 Annual Report described the PCPJ as an organization strongly controlled by US communists: "There is no question but what members of the Communist Party have provided a very strong degree of influence, even a guiding influence, in the evolution and formation of policies of the People’s Coalition for Peace and Justice."

Recently released FBI surveillance reports establish a strong link between John Kerry, Al Hubbard, the VVAW, the PCPJ, and their trips to Paris to meet with Madame Binh. As discussed in Unfit for Command, Hubbard, the Executive Secretary of the VVAW and a hard-line radical with ties to the Black Panthers and the PCPJ, had directly recruited John Kerry into the VVAW's Executive Committee, bypassing the organization's election process. Al Hubbard's own claim to have been a transport pilot wounded in combat was discredited when the Department of Defense released documents demonstrating that, though Hubbard had been in the Air Force, he was neither a pilot nor an officer, had never served in Vietnam and had never been in combat. John Kerry shared the stage with Al Hubbard during the Dewey Canyon III protest in Washington, D.C., and he appeared together with Hubbard on NBC's Meet the Press on April 18, 1971. Hubbard also signed the People's Peace Treaty, a PCPJ document that reiterated the positions of North Vietnam and the Vietcong, on behalf of the VVAW.

An FBI field surveillance report stamped November 11, 1971 reported that the FBI had learned at the Regional VVAW Convention in Norman Oklahoma, on November 5-7, 1971, that John Kerry and Al Hubbard were planning to travel to Paris later in the month to engage in talks with the Vietnamese communist peace delegations. While this document is heavily redacted, other FBI reports make it clear that the Communist Party of the USA was paying for Al Hubbard's trips to Paris.

IT IS NOTED THAT THE "COMMUNIST PARTY" REFERRED IN RETEL IS PROBABLY THE COMMUNIST PARTY, USA, BECAUSE AL HUBBARD IS A MEMBER OF COORDINATING OF PEOPLES COALITION FOR PEACE AND JUSTICE (PCPJ), AS ARE GIL GREEN, MEMBER OF NATIONAL COMMITTEE, COMMUNIST PARTY, USA AND JARVIS TYNER, NATIONAL DIRECTOR, YOUNG WORKERS LIBERATION LEAGUE. HUBBARD, GREEN AND TYNER HAVE ATTENDED SAME NATIONAL MEETINGS OF PCPJ.

-- Federal Bureau of Investigations, Field Surveillance Report, filed November 11, 1971. A copy of this report was air-mailed to the Boston FBI office in reference to John Kerry.

An FBI field surveillance report dated November 24, 1971 details Al Hubbard's presentation to a VVAW meeting of the Executive and Steering committees in Kansas City, Missouri, during the weekend of November 12-15, 1971 –- the same meeting at which the VVAW considered, then rejected a plan to assassinate several pro-war US Senators. John Kerry is listed as present. Once again, Al Hubbard made clear the communist coordination involved in his recent trip to Paris:

[BLACK OUT] advised that Hubbard gave the following information regarding his Paris trip:

Two foreign groups, which are Democratic Republic of Vietnam (DRV) and Peoples Republic Government (PRG) (phonetic), invited representatives of the VVAW, Communist Party USA (CP USA), and a Left Wing group in Paris, to attend meeting of the above inviting groups in Paris. Hubbard advised he was elected to represent the VVAW. An unknown male was invited to represent the CP USA and an unknown individual was elected to represent the Left Wing group from Paris. He advised at the meeting that his trip was financed by CP USA.

-- Federal Bureau of Investigations, Field Surveillance Report, filed November 24, 1971.

A letter written by Al Hubbard on April 20, 1971 leaves no doubt about the strong coordination between the Vietnam Veterans Against the War and the People's Coalition for Peace and Justice. Addressed from the offices of the VVAW in Washington, D.C., the letter is an appeal to VVAW members to provide assistance to the PCPJ. It discusses several ways in which the two organizations have worked closely together:

This is an appeal for help for the Peoples Coalition for Peace and Justice. Over the past months the Peoples Coalition has supported the Vietnam Vets Against the War in many ways. The Coalition has made office space available at no charge, and permitted the use of all necessary office equipment such as mimeograph machines, stencil-making machines, folders and typewriters. They have loaned us cars, bullhorns, and public address equipment. Their staff has taken messages for us and joined fraternally in building our progress. Now we can return this support.

Saturday, April 24, the Coalition needs help collecting money and selling buttons at the great march and rally. Collectors and sellers must be energetic and determined. Theree will be security problems in taking large amounts of money to banks. The Coalition needs people power, hundreds of workers.

I earnestly hope that you will come forward to support our friends in this emergency.

-- Letter signed by Al Hubbard, addressed from the Vietnam Veterans Against the War office at Room 900, 1029 Vermont Ave. N.W., Washington, D.C., dated April 20, 1971. Found in the House Internal Security Committee subject files, Washington, D.C.</I>

Two days after the letter was written, John Kerry gave his famous testimony to Senator Fulbright's Foreign Relations Committee in which he likened the American military in Vietnam to the army of Ghengis Khan. The march and rally for which Hubbard was recruiting VVAW assistance was the PCPJ's massive April 24 demonstration in Washington, which immediately followed the VVAW's week-long Dewey Canyon III protest. The communist Daily world reported on April 27 that "Tributes were paid to the special role of the Vietnam Veterans" at the PCPJ rally, and went on to quote at length from John Kerry's speech at that event.

Willing Partners: the VVAW and the Vietnamese Communists

Other examples of the VVAW's advocacy of Vietnamese communist positions during the period of John Kerry's leadership abound. The group issued a proclamation in February 1971 calling for mass civil disobedience and military mutiny if American forces entered Laos. After the war, North Vietnamese military leaders acknowledged that one of their greatest fears was that America would move significant forces into Laos to interdict the Ho Chi Minh Trail. The VVAW's eagerness to comply with the wishes of the Vietnamese communists even extended to its choice of nomenclature. The VVAW's Executive Committee stated in a July 1971 meeting that the terms "Vietcong" and "North Vietnamese" were not to be used in VVAW press releases and communications. Instead, "PRG (Provisional Revolutionary Government)" and "DRV (Democratic Republic of Vietnam)"... "are to be used by us to reflect our acceptance of their designations." And the VVAW's unremitting insistence that American forces were mass-murdering Vietnamese civilians perfectly echoed the primary propaganda theme put forth by the Vietnamese communists, their international communist allies, and their Soviet sponsors.

Conclusion

The newly uncovered documents help clarify the relationship of the North Vietnamese, the Vietcong, the PCPJ, the Communist Party of the USA, and John Kerry's VVAW. They indicate that these organizations worked closely together, using the Paris Peace Talks as a central point of communication, to employ the strategy and tactics devised by the Vietnamese communists to achieve their primary objective: the defeat of the United States of America in Vietnam.

-- by Jerome R. Corsi and Scott Swett

----------

[Note 1: On October 22, 2004, Swift Veterans and POWs for Truth researchers Troy Jenkins and Tom Wyld located the two Vietnamese communist documents referenced above in the archives of the Vietnam Center at Texas Tech University, in the Douglas Pike Collection. Douglas Pike was a leading authority on the Vietnam War who collected over 2 million pages of original documents now archived at the Vietnam Center. James Reckner, Ph.D., Director of the Vietnam Center at Texas Tech, verifies that the documents in the Pike collection are original and authentic. The Circular and the Directive are listed as items numbered 2150901039b and 2150901041 respectively.]
[Note 2: The authors wish to thank Max Friedman for making available two additional documents, first, Al Hubbard's April 20, 1971 letter to the VVAW membership. The full citation is: National Peace Action Coalition (NPAC) and Peoples Coalition for Peace & Justice (PCPJ) Part I, hearings before the Committee on Internal Security, House of Representatives, 92nd Congress, First Session, May 18-21, 1971, p. 1796. The second document, "Extracts from an interview with a Viet Cong returnee" comes from the American Prisoners of War in Southeast Asia 1971 hearings before the Subcommittee on National Security Policy and Scientific Development, House Foreign Affairs Committee, 92nd Congress First Congress, March 23-25, 30-31, April 1, 6 & 20, 1971, Testimony of Max P. Friedman, pg 299.]

Copyright © 2004 www.wintersoldier.com

 
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Gunny

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daidhaid said:
re the previous paste jobs.
MISSION: IMPLAUSIBLE
[font=Palatino, Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=+2]Discovered papers:
Hanoi directed Kerry
[/size][/font]
[font=Palatino, Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=+1]Recovered Vietnam documents
'smoking gun' researchers claim
[/size][/font]

[font=Palatino, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times]


[font=Palatino, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times, serif]By Art Moore
[size=-1]© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com [/size][/font]

The first documentary evidence that Vietnamese communists were directly steering John Kerry's antiwar group Vietnam Veterans Against the War has been discovered in a U.S. archive, according to a researcher who spoke with WorldNetDaily.

kerry-1971.jpg

John Kerry testifying before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in 1971.

One freshly unearthed document, captured by the U.S. from Vietnamese communists in 1971 and later translated, indicates the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese delegations to the Paris peace talks that year were used as the communications link to direct the activities of Kerry and other antiwar activists who attended.

Kerry insists he attended the talks only because he happened to be in France on his honeymoon and maintains he met with both sides. But previously revealed records indicate the future senator made two, and possibly three, trips to Paris to meet with Viet Cong leader Madame Nguyen Thi Binh then promote her plan's demand for U.S. surrender.

Jerome Corsi, a specialist on the Vietnam era, told WND the new discoveries are the "most remarkable documents I've seen in the entire history of the antiwar movement." "We're not going to say he's an agent for Vietnamese communists, but it's the next thing to it," he said. "Whether he was consciously carrying out their direction or naively doing what they wanted, it amounted to the same thing – he advanced their cause."

[/font]
 
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Gunny

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The thing to judge in these debates
Is what you’re truly hearing;
Do you hear what George, god bless ’em, states,
Or John boy so endearing?
The Cowboy tells you it’s hard work,
Not for the faint of heart,
But manicured John, that elitist jerk,
Does a global view impart.

We hear the pundits say John won,
And shake our heads and wonder;
How they disregard this Judas son,
Who made our nation sunder,
Turned on us soldiers in the field,
Accused us of war crimes,
And made our nation kneel and yield
In those disgraceful times.

It matters not how glib a man
Speaks to a listening nation.
What matters if he cut and ran,
His combat duty station.
As did tall John in sixty-eight
With purple band-aids flying,
Deserted crew, fled to his state,
To there pursue his lying.

We know this man, for we fought there;
He’s but a lying traitor
Whose fancy words and fancy hair
Conceal an imitator.
Yeah Johnny got his cuticles trimmed,
While George reviewed the gloom
Of homes and lives that had been dimmed
By nature’s hand of doom.

While all you pundits say John won;
We’ll take a differing view.
That inarticulate Texas son,
To us came clearly through.
He’ll fight the fight and win this war,
And victory’s road he’ll take,
To vanquish Jihad to it’s core
Unlike that Boston fake.

Russ Vaughn
2d Bn, 327th Parachute Infantry Regiment
101st Airborne Division
Vietnam 65-66
 
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Gunny

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daidhaid said:
re the previous paste jobs.


An Open Letter to Senator John F. Kerry
From Robert Bowie Johnson, Jr.
October 19, 2004

Dear Senator Kerry,

I never met my uncle Will. He was a lieutenant in the Navy during WWII. He was killed in action on his PT boat in the Pacific. For his fatal wounds, he received the Purple Heart posthumously.

The first-captain of my West Point class took a bullet through the heart while leading a South Vietnamese airborne battalion into combat. For this fatal wound, he was awarded the Purple Heart posthumously.

My senior year roommate at West Point became a tunnel rat. A booby trap explosion killed him in the tunnels of Duc Pho. The army awarded him the Purple Heart posthumously. My plebe year roommate lost an eye and became permanently crippled. For his extensive wounds, he received the Purple Heart.

My battalion commander in Viet Nam was one of the bravest men I ever knew. He went out ahead of the troops in his light observation helicopter to find and kill enemy before they had a chance to fire on his men. That's how he died. For his fatal wounds, he received the Purple Heart posthumously.

My words pale in their import compared to the terse comment of a high school classmate of mine. We played lacrosse together in Baltimore. He went to the Naval Academy and upon graduation became a marine. This past July at our annual lacrosse crab feast, I asked him what he thought of your Purple Hearts. He said, "Bob, nine of us lieutenants went over there together, and only three of us came back. All three of us who survived spent at least a month in the hospital recovering from wounds we suffered in combat."

You didn't need any recovery time from your three alleged "wounds." How does one get "wounded" and yet not need to recover from those "wounds"? With wounds comes suffering. Where was your suffering? How could you merit a Purple Heart when you weren't even a casualty? You did not earn your Purple Hearts; you wrangled them from the system through deception so you could go home early and get out of eight months of combat. That is despicable and shameless. During the democratic convention, your flagrant boastful show of your "heroism" gave the impression that you had been a man in the thick of combat, when in fact, you had been a man on the very edge of it, all the while slyly conniving your way out of it. Instead of "Reporting for duty," you should have said, "Derelict in my duty." I marvel at your pomposity, and at the astonishing facility with which you present your phony war record as fact to the American people.

Let's compare your wounds with those of a West Point classmate of mine and his men. As my classmate directed artillery fire onto suspected enemy positions, shrapnel from an enemy mortar ripped into his leg. A medivac chopper took him to the Americal Division field hospital. When he returned to his company two weeks later, many new faces met him: the lieutenant who had taken over had marched the company into a u-shaped ambush resulting in two-thirds of the men being killed or wounded. Those wounded in that battle didn't have to put themselves in for the Purple Heart, Senator Kerry.

You exhibit the characteristics of a Narcissist. Narcissus, for whom this malignant character defect is named, fell in love with his image in a pool of water. As with Narcissus, your image has become the focus of your life. This image of yourself with which you are enamored, so greedy for recognition and praise, is only two dimensional: it has breadth and width, but no depth. And while your image may appear grand and heroic on the surface, there is no substance to it. My high school marine friend and my West Point classmate, true heroes, didn't take movie cameras with them to Viet Nam, but you did-with the express purpose of recording your imaginary exploits and feeding your grandiose image of yourself.

The truth is you faked combat wounds in Viet Nam, and your actions were devious and self-serving. You were a "Purple Heart hunter," just as the Swift Boat Vets say. Narcissus was an actor, and so are you.

I don't understand how any veteran, or any member of a veteran's family, or any sane-thinking American could even consider voting for you—a man who faked Purple Hearts in wartime. A man who will fake Purple Hearts for the sake of glorifying his image has no integrity and misdefines truth as whatever enhances the power and prestige of that image. A man without depth and substance stands for anything and everything-so long as his image is glorified. Narcissists such as you cannot be trusted; and they can be very dangerous, especially when they become paranoid about protecting their image, especially when they occupy positions of great authority and consequence. The issues in this election are truthfulness and character, and you lack both.

In 1971, I became a regional coordinator for Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW) for a short time. I and many other vets were very angry at our government. We had experienced horror, terror, trauma, and grief in a no-win war and couldn't see the reason for it. We felt betrayed by our government and our military leaders. You stepped in and became our spokesman.

What enabled you to rise to the leadership of VVAW? What caused us, back then, to respect a four-month mini-veteran of the war? The answer is your medals: your phony medals for valor and your three phony Purple Hearts. Your congressional testimony about the war began with your own assertions that you had received the Silver Star and three Purple Hearts. What better spokesman than an heroic, thrice-wounded veteran! Our mistake was that we all assumed you were an honest and good man. But well before your antiwar days, you had decided to trade your integrity for the spotlight, and to barter your loyalty for vain political ambitions.

Most of us in VVAW expressed our outrage with government war policies through speeches, marches, and protests. We told the truth about what we saw and did in Viet Nam and we demanded from our leaders acknowledgement and change. You usurped the leadership of VVAW under false pretenses and dragged it in the direction of Jane Fonda and collaboration with the enemy. If, God forbid, you are elected president, in what awful direction will you and your foreign-born-and-raised wife drag our country?

Your deceit is an explicit slur upon my uncle Will's Purple Heart award, and you mock all other veterans who made the supreme sacrifice or suffered genuine wounds in combat throughout our nation's history. Your rise to prominence is based upon your abominably perverse desecration of our ideals; you have trivialized and demeaned the sacred and the solemn, and no amount of fluent sophistry or braggart pretense can cover it up.

Your conduct goes far beyond dereliction of duty. You betrayed your comrades in Viet Nam; you betrayed the trust of antiwar veterans, and now your self-fabricated credentials and continued lies contaminate the political process.

Remember the professor a few years ago who lied about being a Viet Nam veteran? His college reprimanded and suspended him for foisting such an abominable sham upon a few hundred students. I ask you in closing, Senator Kerry, what punishment is fitting for a man who fabricates medals as sacrosanct as the Purple Heart, and who continues to lie about his Viet Nam service to the entire world?

Yours truly,


Robert Bowie Johnson, Jr.
RBowieJ@comcast.net

To See Mr. Johnson's Letter to the Professor Who Lied about Being a Viet Nam Veteran (June 25th, 2001), Click Here.


Mr. Johnson is an airborne ranger infantry veteran of Viet Nam and an author.
 
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daidhaid

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I especialy liked the sly references about Kerry's foriegn born wife.
Hmm anyway...

IMNSHO Just repeating the same things over and over may satisfy the primal urge to lash out, but it doesn't make a weak case strong.
I suppose it may work from the pulpit when you preach to the choir.

In spite of the various slanders, innuendos, and misrepresentations the race is close. Kerry might win then you'll have to swallow your anger and support him like the Good Book says,,, or will you..?
To read some of the posts and the demonization of Senator Kerry, a casual observer might think some of you would rather a moron take the job of President.
Oh yeah that's the incumbent.:p
:wave: :wave: :thumbsup:
 
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Gunny

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daidhaid said:
Kerry might win then you'll have to swallow your anger and support him like the Good Book says,,, or will you..?
God's Holy Word-The Bible, states I am to pray for my leaders. Whoever becomes President I shall continue to pray for my leaders.
 
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arnegrim

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President Bush retains overwhelming support among the military’s professional core despite a troubled mission in Iraq and an opponent who is a decorated combat veteran, a Military Times survey of more than 4,000 readers indicates.

Bush leads Democratic Sen. John Kerry 73 percent to 18 percent in the voluntary survey of 4,165 active-duty, National Guard and reserve subscribers to Army Times, Navy Times, Marine Corps Times and Air Force Times.
http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-383722.php

Graphical representation of surveys
http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?s=1-292925-2004surveygraphics.php

Active Duty survey
http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?s=1-292925-activedutytotal.php

Guard and reserves survey
http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?s=1-292925-2004guardtotal.php
 
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ACougar

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This is a pretty flawed survey for a number of reasons:

First, it's not based on random sampling. A general invitation was sent out to subscribers of the Army Times (which is going to be mostly officers and senior NCO's, not the rank and file.) The respondents would be those who felt strongly about either Bush or Kerry. While this survey isn't a good indicator of how the military feels about either Bush/Kerry, it is a good indicater of more senior soldeirs with strong opinions. Most who support Kerry within the military, don't really like him IMO, they simply dislike Bush more. Much more of the rank and file, are going to lean towards Kerry because they care less about his Vietnam protest, they care more about 2 Divisons being added to the Army to relieve stress and they they would prefer not to see permanent bases in Iraq.

arnegrim said:
 
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daidhaid

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ACougar said:
This is a pretty flawed survey for a number of reasons:

First, it's not based on random sampling. A general invitation was sent out to subscribers of the Army Times (which is going to be mostly officers and senior NCO's, not the rank and file.) The respondents would be those who felt strongly about either Bush or Kerry. While this survey isn't a good indicator of how the military feels about either Bush/Kerry, it is a good indicater of more senior soldeirs with strong opinions. Most who support Kerry within the military, don't really like him IMO, they simply dislike Bush more. Much more of the rank and file, are going to lean towards Kerry because they care less about his Vietnam protest, they care more about 2 Divisons being added to the Army to relieve stress and they they would prefer not to see permanent bases in Iraq.


This makes a lot of sense to me.
Also it seems to apply to quite a few vets.
We just really don't want Bush to have another 4 years to make things worse than they already are.
 
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Gunny

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Among Veterans: Bush 58% Kerry 35%

48% Have Family or Friends in Iraq or Afghanistan

Friday October 08, 2004--A Rasmussen Reports survey shows that military veterans prefer George W. Bush over John Kerry by a 58% to 35% margin. Those with no military service favor Kerry by ten percentage points, 51% to 41%.

The potential grassroots impact of the war issue is highlighted by the fact that 48% of Americans say they know someone who is currently serving in Iraq or Afghanistan. Among these voters, Bush currently has a ten-point advantage in the poll. Fifty-four percent (54%) of veterans know someone serving in these war zones.
 
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Gunny

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Kerry’s ''Vietnam Veterans Against the War'' may have been embraced by the liberal sophisticates of the 1970s, but Vietnam veterans were overwhelmingly against it. Of a possible 9 million members, V.V.A.W only had 7,000. A poll taken in 1980 found that 91% of Vietnam veterans were glad to have served, and, very surprisingly, 74% ''enjoyed their time in the military.'' A majority of participants in the poll also said that people in Washington—perhaps like a certain long-faced activist from Massachusetts—wouldn’t let them win the war they were instructed to fight.

Remainder of article
 
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winteralfs

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whatever Giap thought of Kerry, it does nothing to disprove his testimony or taint his image. The opposing commander may or may not favor certain political positions of the enemy for numerious self serving reasons.

The bottom line is if our military and political leaders had a more sophisticated plan for winning with war, without alienating and destroying vast amounts of the low class peasent population, and instead truly worked to protect the majority of southern vietnamese interests and show them the benifits of our envolvment we may have had a chance. Kerry and "his ilk" did not lose the war for us, most military commanders without an agenda have testified to this. We lost the war becuase of cruel, chaotic, arbitrsry, and often barbaric, and ignorant military policies. Also a lack of understanding that we were entering the conflict on a level way below neutral becuase of years of backing the french and becuase we didnt really know what we wanted for Vietnam in any complex way. We fought simply to fight without an objective of any specific terms. We used Vietnam as a stage to show the world that America woudnt stand for commnism.
 
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daidhaid

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winteralfs said:
whatever Giap thought of Kerry, it does nothing to disprove his testimony or taint his image. The opposing commander may or may not favor certain political positions of the enemy for numerious self serving reasons.

The bottom line is if our military and political leaders had a more sophisticated plan for winning with war, without alienating and destroying vast amounts of the low class peasent population, and instead truly worked to protect the majority of southern vietnamese interests and show them the benifits of our envolvment we may have had a chance. Kerry and "his ilk" did not lose the war for us, most military commanders without an agenda have testified to this. We lost the war becuase of cruel, chaotic, arbitrsry, and often barbaric, and ignorant military policies. Also a lack of understanding that we were entering the conflict on a level way below neutral becuase of years of backing the french and becuase we didnt really know what we wanted for Vietnam in any complex way. We fought simply to fight without an objective of any specific terms. We used Vietnam as a stage to show the world that America woudnt stand for commnism.



uhh AMEN BROTHER>>> heh heh...
 
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K

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winteralfs said:
whatever Giap thought of Kerry, it does nothing to disprove his testimony or taint his image. The opposing commander may or may not favor certain political positions of the enemy for numerious self serving reasons.

The bottom line is if our military and political leaders had a more sophisticated plan for winning with war, without alienating and destroying vast amounts of the low class peasent population, and instead truly worked to protect the majority of southern vietnamese interests and show them the benifits of our envolvment we may have had a chance. Kerry and "his ilk" did not lose the war for us, most military commanders without an agenda have testified to this. We lost the war becuase of cruel, chaotic, arbitrsry, and often barbaric, and ignorant military policies. Also a lack of understanding that we were entering the conflict on a level way below neutral becuase of years of backing the french and becuase we didnt really know what we wanted for Vietnam in any complex way. We fought simply to fight without an objective of any specific terms. We used Vietnam as a stage to show the world that America woudnt stand for commnism.


*blinks*

You don't know do you? :sigh:
 
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winteralfs

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well this thread will soon be obsolete. Probably disapear forgotten as Kerry fades from the public eye. Its too bad, but I supose the swift boat veterens can claim a small victory in all this, and for that I will always be angry. A wound that will never heal, perhaps. Pride and prejudice have won the day and for the next 4 years Vietnam and all its sins will move from public conciousness and into the halls of acadamia. Perhaps rewritten as a heroic saga of christianity vanquishing hethens, 5 million enemy combatents of democracy killed in the name of god and freedom. Shame on us...all of us.
 
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