Video about Saint John of Damascus, Holy Icons and Islam (675-749 A.D.)

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

I don't usually post about Islam, but this video connects to the history of Christianity and Christian Doctrines that directly differ from Islam.

Saint John of Damascus was one of the first Christians to write a defense of Christian Doctrine to the Muslims (675-749 A.D.)

John of Damascus - Wikipedia

These events happened before The 7th Ecumenical Council of 787 A.D. that dealt with the use of Holy Christian Icons :

CHURCH FATHERS: Second Council of Nicaea


• The Seventh Ecumenical Council. The Second Council of Nicaea
(787 A.D.)

• Extracts from the Acts. Session 1


• Anathema to the calumniators of the Christians, that is to the image breakers.

• Anathema to those who apply the words of Holy Scripture which were spoken against idols, to the venerable images.

• Anathema to those who do not salute the holy and venerable images.

• Anathema to those who say that Christians have recourse to the images as to gods.

• Anathema to those who call the sacred images idols.

• Anathema to those who knowingly communicate with those who revile and dishonour the venerable images.

• Anathema to those who say that another than Christ our Lord hath delivered us from idols.

• Anathema to those who spurn the teachings of the holy Fathers and the tradition of the Catholic Church, taking as a pretext and making their own the arguments of Arius, Nestorius, Eutyches, and Dioscorus, that unless we were evidently taught by the Old and New Testaments, we should not follow the teachings of the holy Fathers and of the holy Ecumenical Synods, and the tradition of the Catholic Church.

• Anathema to those who dare to say that the Catholic Church hath at any time sanctioned idols.

• Anathema to those who say that the making of images is a diabolical invention and not a tradition of our holy Fathers.

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[DamianWarS]

I don't usually post about Islam, but this video connects to the history of Christianity and Christian Doctrines that directly differ from Islam.

Saint John of Damascus was one of the first Christians to write a defense of Christian Doctrine to the Muslims (675-749 A.D.)

John of Damascus - Wikipedia

These events happened before The 7th Ecumenical Council of 787 A.D. that dealt with the use of Holy Christian Icons :

CHURCH FATHERS: Second Council of Nicaea


• The Seventh Ecumenical Council. The Second Council of Nicaea
(787 A.D.)

• Extracts from the Acts. Session 1


• Anathema to the calumniators of the Christians, that is to the image breakers.

• Anathema to those who apply the words of Holy Scripture which were spoken against idols, to the venerable images.

• Anathema to those who do not salute the holy and venerable images.

• Anathema to those who say that Christians have recourse to the images as to gods.

• Anathema to those who call the sacred images idols.

• Anathema to those who knowingly communicate with those who revile and dishonour the venerable images.

• Anathema to those who say that another than Christ our Lord hath delivered us from idols.

• Anathema to those who spurn the teachings of the holy Fathers and the tradition of the Catholic Church, taking as a pretext and making their own the arguments of Arius, Nestorius, Eutyches, and Dioscorus, that unless we were evidently taught by the Old and New Testaments, we should not follow the teachings of the holy Fathers and of the holy Ecumenical Synods, and the tradition of the Catholic Church.

• Anathema to those who dare to say that the Catholic Church hath at any time sanctioned idols.

• Anathema to those who say that the making of images is a diabolical invention and not a tradition of our holy Fathers.

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St. John of Damascus presents a very articulated and intellectual argument but an issue with this is most people can't participate on this level and why they do something maybe a very different reason than the orthodox defence John presents. For John to say he doesn't worship matter but instead the creator of matter may perhaps be too abstract for someone else looking at an icon and what motivates them to act in a certain manner towards the icon. Mary restoring John's hand reinforces this idea that although abstractly we know Christ has authority behind all things, in reality, I don't seek Christ to get these things instead I seek x practice, x icon, x prayer, etc... to get the things I want. This creates a folk side of Christianity and is inevitable when Jesus is no longer the principle focus in certain actions. It is also blind from the inside where arguments only defends the intellectual and abstract qualities but from the outside (Islam) only seeing the surface actions and interpreting them as idolatry.

Islam has a very established folk side as well because, in a similar way as presented above, Allah doesn't connect with people so people seek other ways to get what they want in various creative ways however it's a similar response which is filling a void that Allah is not directly meeting so seeking mediators under Allah to do it. Both Christianity and Islam are guilty of "associates" in this respect and both point to each other flaws but blinded to its own.

The Quran does call Isa the Word (kalimat) and the Spirit (Ruh) of Allah and this is a difficult thing to sweep under the rug without also calling Isa divine himself however more important than a complex theological understanding of who Allah is, which no one can grasp, is the Quran tells us the word of Allah is incorruptible and if true than is it not also true for the Tawrat and Injil? Are they also not incorruptible too?

The Quran tells us Isa was sent to proclaim the Tawrat and to obey him (Isa) and he says in the Injil that the most important commandment is this "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength." This is referred to as the "Shema" and it is quoted from the Tawrat which both affirms the Tawrat and Isa's understanding of Allah as one (not 3). Christians of course have different ways of explaining how this works but is it not more important to obey what Isa actually says? The Quran only tells us to obey Isa but the question left unanswered is what is the instruction Isa gives us so that we may obey him? This answer is found in the Injil, read it and see what it means to obey Isa.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Mary restoring John's hand reinforces this idea that although abstractly we know Christ has authority behind all things, in reality, I don't seek Christ to get these things instead I seek x practice, x icon, x prayer, etc... to get the things I want. This creates a folk side of Christianity and is inevitable when Jesus is no longer the prinicpal focus in certain actions.
Both Christianity and Islam are guilty of "associates" in this respect

Here's another quote from The 7th Ecumenical Council of (787A.D.)

CHURCH FATHERS: Second Council of Nicaea


• The Seventh Ecumenical Council. The Second Council of Nicaea (787 A.D.)

• Extracts from the Acts. Session 4


"We salute the voices of the Lord and of His Apostles through which we have been taught to honor in the first place her who is properly and truly the Mother of God and exalted above all the heavenly Powers; also the holy and angelic powers; and the blessed and altogether lauded Apostles, and the glorious Prophets and the triumphant Martyrs which fought for Christ, and the holy and God-bearing Doctors, and all holy men; "AND TO SEEK FOR THEIR INTERCESSIONS" , as able to render us at home with the all-royal God of all, so long as we keep His commandments, and strive to live virtuously ."

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