Vestments: history and meaning

[Paidiske]

Would all Orthodox cassocks be more or less the same sort of design? Or are there variations?

 

[teresa]

are the Greek Orthodox cassock different colors as well, depending on the ceremony?

 

[teresa]

Speaking of vestments:

Go to around 7 min and watch until the Patriarch of Alexandria (guy in all gold and white) turns around. His Vestments are the most gorgeous I've ever seen.

Love it! Everything is so incredibly gorgeous and reverent.

 

[Arcangl86]

are the Greek Orthodox cassock different colors as well, depending on the ceremony?

From my understanding the cassocks are always black, but they are usually worn under other vestments. The Orthodox also have a different set of liturgical colors then the West. IIRC the official liturgy books actually don't even have colors, just "light" or "dark."

 

[teresa]

Love it! Everything is so incredibly gorgeous and reverent.

seems like the angels of heaven are singing in this service....

what is the reason there are men who are wearing a crown?

 

[teresa]

the blue vestments are my favorite so far, and by far the most gorgeous

so much must be hand sewn?

 

[GreekOrthodox]

are the Greek Orthodox cassock different colors as well, depending on the ceremony?

Morning (well... almost afternoon!)
Cassocks are most commonly black although you might see some grey or blue ones. The style I am wearing has tight sleeves and this is what Orthodox clergy wear as their daily habit rather than the clerical shirt with the collar. That being said most American clergy do wear the clerical shirt if they are out in public as it is what we Americans expect to see (especially in hospital visits).

There are some styled differences between Orthodox vestments such as Russian priests phelonion (chausible in the west) has a very high back that extends up towards the head while the Greek style lays flat across the shoulders.

As for the hats... The crowns are worn by bishops during services. The black stovepipe hats are worn by monastics and clergy. If they have a veil they are monastics, if not, then they are married.

As for the singing, this service and church are probably served by a semi-professional choir. This is an example of a hymn to Mary, Agni Parthene.

or in English

 

[teresa]

Morning (well... almost afternoon!)
Cassocks are most commonly black although you might see some grey or blue ones. The style I am wearing has tight sleeves and this is what Orthodox clergy wear as their daily habit rather than the clerical shirt with the collar. That being said most American clergy do wear the clerical shirt if they are out in public as it is what we Americans expect to see (especially in hospital visits).

There are some styled differences between Orthodox vestments such as Russian priests phelonion (chausible in the west) has a very high back that extends up towards the head while the Greek style lays flat across the shoulders.

As for the hats... The crowns are worn by bishops during services. The black stovepipe hats are worn by monastics and clergy. If they have a veil they are monastics, if not, then they are married.

As for the singing, this service and church are probably served by a semi-professional choir. This is an example of a hymn to Mary, Agni Parthene.

or in English

Just loved these hymns, so Favorited them on youtube. I like O Virgin Pure the best.

Very lovely singing.

Do you sing?

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Yes, I'm a psalti / chanter. I got recruited immediately after joining the Orthodox church. I arrived early to a service and the priest said, "You're the only one here, you're chanting".

 

[Arcangl86]

Yes, I'm a psalti / chanter. I got recruited immediately after joining the Orthodox church. I arrived early to a service and the priest said, "You're the only one here, you're chanting".

I'm glad to see some things cross denominations.

 

[FireDragon76]

That's the before mentioned biretta. It's technically not a vestment in that it is actually street wear, though sometimes worn for large part of the liturgy. It used to be a Roman Catholic vestment, but has fallen mostly out of use even among them.


So the Knights Knights Templar as a religious order no longer exist. When they did exist though they were known for wearing a white mantle and surcoat.

Episcopalians used to call the upper midwest the "Biretta Belt" because it had so many Anglo-Catholics, who at one time typically wore birettas.

 

[Arcangl86]

Episcopalians used to call the upper midwest the "Biretta Belt" because it had so many Anglo-Catholics, who at one time typically wore birettas.

It's still called that. And while there are still many Anglo-Catholics that wear birettas, it's not the near universal marker of churchmanship it used to be.

 

[thecolorsblend]

I, seriously, always thought the wearing of ANYTHING special was so that the head person would stand out. Otherwise, they might look no different than any other person, and neither they nor the congregation wanted that.
I mean isn't that concept the whole reason to address them with a title even though Jesus told us not to desire that?

I rather like the symbolism of vestments.

By way of comparison, I attended a Southern Baptist ecclesial community for many years. The lead pastor there was in his lower 50's and typically dressed in jeans and button-up shirts. Obviously we all wear different clothes every day and he was no exception. He left the community some years back and he's been replaced by a different lead pastor who has his own fashion sense. Eventually, this new pastor will be replaced by someone else who also has their own style, etc.

In the Catholic Church though, that's not what happens. My priest wears vestments and the collar. But someday, God will call him home. And my priest will be replaced by a different man, but one who also wears vestments and collar.

These priests come and go, live and die. But their mission, their ordination and their vestments are basically the same and they're done in service to the same God. To me, that's far more beautiful symbolism than the dressed-down, come as you are because we do too approach of that Southern Baptist ecclesial community. And I think it symbolizes the eternal, permanent nature of the Church.

 

[Arcangl86]

So to bump this thread, I have a question involving the stole in western position. What is the proper manner to wear a stole?

 

[Paidiske]

A deacon wears it draped over the left shoulder and fastened at the right hip. A priest wears it draped so that both ends of the stole hang in front.

Deaconwise:

Preistwise:

 

[Arcangl86]

A deacon wears it draped over the left shoulder and fastened at the right hip. A priest wears it draped so that both ends of the stole hang in front.

Deaconwise:

View attachment 247286
Preistwise:

View attachment 247287

I realized after I posted, I wasn't quite clear. Does a stole go over or under a chausable/dalmatic. I'm asking because if it is the symbol of that particular office, does it matter if it can't be seen?

 

[Paidiske]

Under the chasuble or dalmatic.

I do find it interesting that when priests are taking the liturgical role of a deacon, I know some who still wear their stoles priestwise under the dalmatic, but some wear it deaconwise; saying that after all they never stopped being deacons when they were ordained priests!

 

[Mhiriam]

I belong to a evangelical low-church Anglican - the priests who do the communion service at 7:45, Andrew and Vijay, wear the black cassock, white robe over the top and the black scarf thing (what's it called?), but not for the other services, because we don't think it's very important, just tradition. If Andrew had to wear the eucharist robes you picture, I would never be able stop laughing, so good thing. Anyway, Andrew and Vijay tend to leave their robes strewn all over the office when they yank them off for the 9am, so not really a lot of reverence there! We believe there is a place for tradition, but when ritual takes over the Gospel message and becomes more important, that's a bad thing.

 

[Mhiriam]

(At Holy Trinity, we believe that all Christians are a royal priesthood, we're not different from each other.)

 

[Paidiske]

I belong to a evangelical low-church Anglican - the priests who do the communion service at 7:45, Andrew and Vijay, wear the black cassock, white robe over the top and the black scarf thing (what's it called?),

The black scarf thing is a tippet or preaching scarf.

I came from a very evangelical church where robes didn't feature much; but I always remember the wisdom of one of my training vicars, who told me, "I'll wear whatever they want, as long as they let me preach the gospel."