Vestments: history and meaning

[Paidiske]

Now if this thread's going to turn into a discussion of weaponry in church (or at all), I'll bow out and leave you to it.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Now if this thread's going to turn into a discussion of weaponry in church (or at all), I'll bow out and leave you to it.

No, not in Church. This is Canada; it's only for recreation LOL.

I think the closest we ever came to a weapon as vestment in the Judaeo-Christian tradition would be the breast plate worn by the temple priests.

 

[Paidiske]

Did the military orders - knights templar etc - carry weapons in church? I honestly don't know, although I rather imagine not.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Good question; they often are holding swords in their effigies on their tombs; St. Michael is always well armed; and is St. Paul not often depicted holding a sword?

 

[Arcangl86]

I think they might for certain occasions. Though the only real order around any more is the Order of Malta and I have no idea what their practice is.

 

[teresa]

@paidiski you would be so cute in this (just kidding, lol!)

wonder what the meaning of this type of vestment?

 

[teresa]

what did the Knights Templar wear and do they still have practicing members?

is there a Knights of the round table?

 

[teresa]

Anyone ever wonder why pants took so long to be invented?

 

[Arcangl86]

@paidiski you would be so cute in this (just kidding, lol!)

wonder what the meaning of this type of vestment?
View attachment 243113

That's the before mentioned biretta. It's technically not a vestment in that it is actually street wear, though sometimes worn for large part of the liturgy. It used to be a Roman Catholic vestment, but has fallen mostly out of use even among them.

what did the Knights Templar wear and do they still have practicing members?
is there a Knights of the round table?

So the Knights Knights Templar as a religious order no longer exist. When they did exist though they were known for wearing a white mantle and surcoat.

 

[Paidiske]

Good question; they often are holding swords in their effigies on their tombs; St. Michael is always well armed; and is St. Paul not often depicted holding a sword?

Martyrs are typically depicted with the instrument of their martyrdom. So St. Paul with a sword, St. Faith (patron of my parish) with the heated brazier on which she was cooked to death, etc.

 

[seeking.IAM]

That's the before mentioned biretta...It used to be a Roman Catholic vestment, but has fallen mostly out of use even among them.

Out of style? My priest wore a biretta only last Sunday. Maybe Aussie priests are short on style?

 

[Arcangl86]

Out of style? My priest wore a biretta only last Sunday. Maybe Aussie priests are short on style?

I did say mostly. I've only seen them once or twice in my life, and those were in nosebleed High Church Episcopal Churches.

 

[Paidiske]

Oy! We're not short on style. But yes, like Arcangl, I'd consider them to be something I'd see in a stratospherically high-church context.

 

[Arcangl86]

Also, most of this only applies to Western Christians. Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox have similar garments with very similar roles but very very different forms.

 

[teresa]

Martyrs are typically depicted with the instrument of their martyrdom. So St. Paul with a sword, St. Faith (patron of my parish) with the heated brazier on which she was cooked to death, etc.

st faith was cooked to death in her brazier?

 

[teresa]

This has to be the most over the top clerical collar ever:

Apparrently, Lutheran clergy in Denmark and Greenland wear this type of collar still.

what does wearing the collar represent? I mean there is no cross in the collar, it is just round and looks very tight

 

[Paidiske]

st faith was cooked to death in her brazier?

On a brazier, yes. Imperial Rome not being known for its kindness to those who refused to engage in the imperial cult.

what does wearing the collar represent? I mean there is no cross in the collar, it is just round and looks very tight

The collar was invented by a Presbyterian, and it's really just a way - especially for those of us who no longer wear a cassock as our basic street dress - to be identifiable. I can't remember if I said this in this thread or not (I know I've said it somewhere), but if I walk down the street in my collar, people can ask me to pray with them, ask me to help them... and they do. If I walk down the street without the collar, I become invisible and thus, unavailable to the people I'm meant to be there to serve.

 

[FireDragon76]

The big ruffled collar is just a fashion from the 17th century, as far as I know. It's the usual clerical collar for clergy in the state church of Denmark and former Danish colonies.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

The big ruffled collar is just a fashion from the 17th century, as far as I know. It's the usual clerical collar for clergy in the state church of Denmark and former Danish colonies.

It has ties to Danish royalty, who at some point, granted them the right to wear the ruff collar. It was worn in Norway into the 80's and some of the more traditional clergy still do. I'm not sure why some clergy of SELK in Germany wear it also; but they do.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

This is a Greek Orthodox chanter cassock (anteri)