Vestments: history and meaning

[Paidiske]

Spin off from this thread: How gendered clothing makes more problems for all of us

I'm starting this thread hoping we can share about and discuss the history and meaning of vestments, without debating who is right or wrong or whether they should be worn.

In my tradition, there are three kinds of clerical wear; what you would wear day-to-day as you go about life, what you would wear for church services without communion ("choir habit"), and what you would wear for communion (Eucharistic vestments). Is that basic division common to most traditions where vestments are the norm?

 

[teresa]

what do you wear day to day, paidiski? can you wear pants and a tee shirt, or must you wear the collar around your neck all day long even when not on duty?

What, if any one knows, is the significance of wearing a little collar around the neck?

Why not just wear a cross over the shirt?

Do you ever feel hot in the mad heat of aussie summers, and how can you get any relief wearing a high collar like that?

 

[teresa]

what do you wear for Eucharistic vestments and why do you think you need to wear one that is different than for a regular service?

Is it a special material made to not get wine stains on it?

Who washes and irons your vestments?

 

[teresa]

can you wear whatever you want on your own time or do you always have to be clothed as if on duty?

what can you wear to the beach with your little one?

 

[Paidiske]

what do you wear day to day, paidiski? can you wear pants and a tee shirt, or must you wear the collar around your neck all day long even when not on duty?

What, if any one knows, is the significance of wearing a little collar around the neck?

Why now just wear a cross over the shirt?

Do you ever feel hot in the mad heat of aussie summers, and how can you get any relief wearing a high collar like that?

The clerical collar was a Presbyterian invention which has been taken up, at first by many Protestants and then also by Catholics. You can read up a bit on that here: Clerical collar - Wikipedia

I definitely don't wear the collar when I'm not working.

Day to day, for work, I make a judgement call depending what I'm doing. If, for example, I'm doing hospital visits, I definitely wear the collar because it means the nurses don't argue with me about being allowed to be there! If I'm having a day of admin and sermon writing, I might be in jeans and a t-shirt. Basically I judge it on how much I'm going to be interacting with people, and how formal that interaction will be. If I'm not being very formal I might wear a large cross necklace and skip the clerical collar.

I'm fortunate in that I don't mind the heat too much (and it does get very hot here); but what I have that I find a good option in summer is a couple of ladies' dresses with clerical collar built in. (This will give you some idea of what I mean: Cross Designs- Tailor made Clergy Wear - Ladies Dresses ). Something like that is really not too oppressive.

 

[Paidiske]

what do you wear for Eucharistic vestments and why do you think you need to wear one that is different than for a regular service?

Is it a special material made to not get wine stains on it?

Who washes and irons your vestments?

To preside at the Eucharist, I would typically wear alb, stole and chasuble. Something like this:

The alb is the white robe, the stole is the scarf-like thing around his neck, and the chasuble the over-robe.

Historically, this is not what Anglican ministers wore; they wore something more like this (which is what I called choir habit):

In the 19th century there was a move in part of the church to become more Catholic, and that's when the sort of thing in the first picture re-entered Anglican practice. So it's that thing of having special vestments especially for the Eucharist, and wanting to move back towards what was seen as the historic practice of the Church, rather than embracing an aesthetic based more in the Reformation.

(Do ask me to clarify if I'm talking about stuff you don't know about; I forget how much particularly Anglican obsessions aren't shared by everybody!)

I get most of my vestments dry cleaned; in theory I could wash my own albs but they're a pain to iron.

can you wear whatever you want on your own time or do you always have to be clothed as if on duty?

what can you wear to the beach with your little one?

Nobody minds what I wear when I'm not working. At the beach I'm just another mum.

 

[Arcangl86]

So I have a foot in both the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America and the Episcopal Church. In the ELCA, there are both street clothes and vestments. There is a history of choir dress in the ELCA, but it has mostly fallen by the wayside. Like I would occasionally wear a cassock and surplice in seminary while leading services and people would stare at me like I had two heads. Choir dress still exist in the Episcopal Church, but I suspect it's worn less in then in Australia. Part of that is that non-Eucharistic services are not terribly common. I can count on one hand the amount of times I've seen choir dress (cassock, surplice, tippet).

 

[Paidiske]

Choir dress is worn less in Australian Anglicanism than in times gone by, largely because evangelical churches (which retained it rather than moving to Eucharistic vestments) are now largely abandoning vestments altogether.

The main place there's still a strong tradition of choir dress is the Cathedral in my diocese, which retains a daily service of evensong.

 

[Arcangl86]

So here's a question for you. I sort of know the answer, but there are different vestments for different orders of ministry right? Also, this is a real question I don't know the answer to. Are laity allowed to wear a tippet?

 

[Willie T]

I, seriously, always thought the wearing of ANYTHING special was so that the head person would stand out. Otherwise, they might look no different than any other person, and neither they nor the congregation wanted that.
I mean isn't that concept the whole reason to address them with a title even though Jesus told us not to desire that?

 

[Paidiske]

So here's a question for you. I sort of know the answer, but there are different vestments for different orders of ministry right? Also, this is a real question I don't know the answer to. Are laity allowed to wear a tippet?

Different Eucharistic vestments, yes.

Here's a picture of me vested as a deacon:



That is a dalmatic, and (it's hard to tell in the picture) it actually has sleeves, and is of a more boxy square cut than the chasuble. The deacon's stole is also worn over one shoulder and fastened at the side, thusly:



A lay person may wear a tippet but it will typically not be black.

 

[truefiction1]

I, seriously, always thought the wearing of ANYTHING special was so that the head person would stand out. Otherwise, they might look no different than any other person, and neither they nor the congregation wanted that.
I mean isn't that concept the whole reason to address them with a title even though Jesus told us not to desire that?

It has more to do with Liturgical beauty through presentations of Biblical metaphorical imagery of the Heavenly Kingdom. For the celebrants, the wearing of vestments can oftentimes be a form of physical torture, because when it's very hot in Church, it's extremely hot (and sweaty) inside of the vestments, and difficult to bear. The celebrants bear such discomfort for the sake of the faithful who come to worship God in a place that brings God and His Kingdom into their minds, and their hearts, through all of their physical and spiritual senses.

 

[teresa]

This will give you some idea of what I mean: Cross Designs- Tailor made Clergy Wear - Ladies Dresses ).

I like the cross dress option too/ Must you wear hose with that or do they allow you to wear no hose under that? How light weight is it to wear and can you chose a light and summery material for it to be hand sewn?

Are you allowed to wear this dress as a solid color only or could you have the cross dress made with little flowers printed or embroidered on?

 

[teresa]

I love this dress with the empire waist, plus it flares out and away from the body so that it free falls loosely and allows for more "swing" with movements and therefore air flow. Can you wear one this short? (to the knee?)

 

[teresa]

Oh I found the fabric samples and they are so nice. Do you enjoy being able to wear a pretty dress with the cross built in so you are still priestly, yet also "girly"?

Here are some of the fabric patterns they post:

LINK: Cross Designs - Tailor made Clerical wear - Fabric Samples

 

[teresa]

would it ever be cold enough to wear jersey or fleece material in one of these dresses?

Who sews them for you?

I see they want you to submit your measurements here, so I take it they tailor or sew it all for you:

 

[teresa]

which fabric design is your personal favorite and what is your favorite color?

 

[teresa]

I found this fascinating to learn about the collars:

 

[teresa]

Are the collars soft satin or silk so as to not be scratchy on the neck?

 

[teresa]

this over garment is so richly designed. is this the chasuble?

who makes them for you or for your church and do you share these items with other priests, even male ones?