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Verses that say that the Bible is infallible, and perfect?

Discussion in 'Bibliology & Hermeneutics' started by Athlon4all, Jul 29, 2002.

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  1. Ioustinos

    Ioustinos Veteran

    +148
    Eastern Orthodox
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    US-Libertarian

    Are you wanting to know which translation is the "final authority"?

    Or do you want to know which is more "reliable", the translations or the Greek and Hebrew texts?

    Or do you want to know which manuscripts are "better" than the other(s)?

    Please specify?
     
  2. Julie

    Julie ONLY JESUS CHRIST SAVES

    +4
    Christian
    Which one do you "prefer" and obey as the words of God?
     
  3. Mike Etemadi

    Mike Etemadi New Member

    48
    +0
    Julie,

    Before the New Testament came to exist, the Old Testament was the authority. Yet, the expert interpreters, commentators, followers and whoever else who was versed in the Old Testament failed to understand the message of Our Lord and denied His Mission. To this date, they read the Old Testament and fail to understand its meaning. As Paul states beautifully:

    2 Corinthians 3:14-16 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

    (you can aslo see how beautifully the meaning of the veil on Moses' face is explained. Even if you read the Exodus a thousand times one cannot discover this meaning as explained by Paul.)

    You see that the understanding of the Old Testament is subject to acceptance of the New Testament and acceptance of Christ.

    In like manner, no matter how wonderful the translation or how authoritative the orgininal texts are, yet they are subject to the understanding that the Lord upon His return gives us. Any fair-minded person would readily admit that if the Word was easily understood, one would not have all these contentious arguements and disagreements who have plagued the cause of our Lord for so many centuries.

    The disturbing fact is that we claim to have understood the Word and have already placed conditions on how the Lord is supposed to return. We claim to have understood what signs are to accompany His coming and so on.... Truly, I see a lot of similarities between us and the Jews in that we claim to understand the Word without acknowledging that the ultimate understanding comes from the Giver of the Word and He alone can determine what it truly means.

    So I wonder how we are going to treat Him when He returns and does not satisfy our version of the understanding of the Word of God.
     
  4. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild Sheep in Wolf's clothing

    +1
    Non-Denom
    In fact the manuscripts used as originals for the purpose of translation do contain errors.

    The AKJV corrects one of these errors, altering a reference in one passage, from Goliath being killed (as the originals have it) to the brother of Goliath being killed, thus bringing it into line with the later passage referring to the same event (and leaving David as the one who killed Goliath.)

    The NIV and NES act to correct another error in the originals, with the heights of the pillars Jachin and Boaz being altered from 35 cubits to a combined length of 35 cubits in the NIV and to 18 cubits in the NES.
    Yes, there are verses which state that scripture is inspired by God - the problem being that the Bible includes passages which are not scripture. That is, the Bible is not simply the sum of scriptures, but - the sum of extant copies of scripture, plus eye witness testimony, plus personal opinions (and sundry other bits and pieces.) However, one point is repeatedly stated - every fact is affirmed upon the testimony of two or more reliable witnesses. If we are to accept the Bible as authoritative, it is necessary to at least pay lip service its own fundamental definition of how to determine what is fact. One author is one witness - at best, a matter stated by only one author is unverified.
     
  5. Mike Etemadi

    Mike Etemadi New Member

    48
    +0
    Thunderchild,

    Would you kindly read my alst comment in this thread and share your thoughts with me?
     
  6. Ioustinos

    Ioustinos Veteran

    +148
    Eastern Orthodox
    Private
    US-Libertarian

    Personally I prefer the NASB, but I also like the NKJV.

    When studying and preparing for a sermon I use the NASB, NKJV, ASV, WEB, a Literal Translation and KJV as well I have an Interlinear Bible that I refer to and use with my Strong's Concordance. I also have a few lexicons. Recently I have purchased a copy of the Tanach to use in my studies of the OT. :)
     
  7. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild Sheep in Wolf's clothing

    +1
    Non-Denom
    Jesaiah> Wot? No concordant version? Well I never. (though the list you provide is very good.)

    Mike> It would seem that I am not a fair minded person.
    It seems to me that, far from being difficult to *understand, the Bible is fairly sensible to (what should be) the average reader. Difficulties mostly seem to arise from people who insist on creating God according to the image of their own liking.


    *(I checked it with Microsoft Word's facility - even the AKJV, for the most part, only needs a 12 year old's capacity for reading comprehension).

    Ah - you wanted comment re your final paragraph in that prior post. From what I have seen, most people will be eager to find bits of wood and pass out the nails.
     
  8. Mike Etemadi

    Mike Etemadi New Member

    48
    +0
    "most people will be eager to find bits of wood and pass out the nails."

    I don't understand the expression. Please elaborate.

    "Difficulties mostly seem to arise from people who insist on creating God according to the image of their own liking."

    I do agree with you and think that the leaders of religion fall squarely into this category.
     
  9. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild Sheep in Wolf's clothing

    +1
    Non-Denom
    Is a reference to crucifixion, Mike.

    I don't think Jesus would meet with any better reception from the corrupted church members than he did from the corrupted members of the Sanhedrin. Nor would he meet with a worse reception from the upright church members than he did from the righteous members of the Sanhedrin.
     
  10. Migloth

    Migloth New Member

    35
    +0
    I don't know Greek. 

    I don't know Hebrew. 

    Saying that I need to study Greek and Hebrew to help discern the 'inerrant' and 'infallible' nature of scripture does me no good. 

    I do know this.  The anointing, the Holy Spirit, will teach me what is true.   It is important to remember that God is not limited to speaking to us through Scripture.  God is the final authority for faith and life, and He will speak to us through whatever medium He so chooses.  He speaks through nature.  He speaks through writings that are not considered Scripture.  He even speaks through calamity, misfortune and evil. 

    I put my faith in God, not in Scripture.  Scripture is simply a medium through which God speaks to me.  So, if in the future, some genius or other discovers errors in Scripture, I will not suffer distress.
     
  11. Ioustinos

    Ioustinos Veteran

    +148
    Eastern Orthodox
    Private
    US-Libertarian

    How do you rationalize this statement? If it were not for Scripture then how do you know of/about God? :scratch:
     
  12. Migloth

    Migloth New Member

    35
    +0
    How did the Patriarchs know of God.  They had no Scriptures yet they believed in God and trusted in God to the point of appearing foolish to those around them.  They walked with God.  God is evident in nature and he is in the very breath by which we are alive.  I do not mean to say that I disbelieve Scripture, but to me, God is above all, even the Holy Scriptures.  God is the real Word existing before the Scriptures.
     
  13. Job_38

    Job_38 <font size="1"> In perfect orbit they have circled

    +1
    Because it says God revealed himself to them. But yes, the scriptures are how God reveals himself to us. But there will be no one who can point out errors in Gods Word, because it is just that, His Work.
     
  14. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild Sheep in Wolf's clothing

    +1
    Non-Denom
    With that, I find a problem. God did not reveal himself to me through the scriptures, but through demonstration of the Holy Spirit's power.
     
  15. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild Sheep in Wolf's clothing

    +1
    Non-Denom
    Has anyone ever been able to produce proof texts to show that everything in the Bible is scripture? No.
     
  16. Julie

    Julie ONLY JESUS CHRIST SAVES

    +4
    Christian
    Ps 100:5 For the LORD is good; his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations.

    Ps 119:89 For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.

    Ps 119:152 Concerning thy testimonies, I have known of old that thou hast founded them for ever.

    Ps 119:160 Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.

    Isa 40:8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

    1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

    1Pe 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

    &nbsp;

    2 Timothy 3:16
    All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:


    &nbsp;

    But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.&nbsp; Matt 4:4
     
  17. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild Sheep in Wolf's clothing

    +1
    Non-Denom
    Yes yes. We are fully aware of the nature of scripture. Where does it say everything in the Bible is scripture? Or to make it easier, where does it say that a holy man of God is infallible, or produces written works only by inspiration of the Holy Spirit?
     
  18. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild Sheep in Wolf's clothing

    +1
    Non-Denom
    Or to make it easier yet - where does it say that men will only call a writing scripture by the inspiration of God? Could men mistakenly consider a writing to be scriptural?
     
  19. Julie

    Julie ONLY JESUS CHRIST SAVES

    +4
    Christian
    John 17:17
    Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.


    1.&nbsp; His word nourishes the soul (scripture).
    2.&nbsp; His word has no copyright privileges (scripture).
    3.&nbsp; His word quickens (scripture).
    4.&nbsp; His word is a lamp (scripture).
    5.&nbsp; His word is right (scripture).
    6.&nbsp; His word keeps you from sin (scripture).
    7.&nbsp; His word is true (scripture).
    8.&nbsp; His word is a joy and rejoicing to the heart (scripture).
    9.&nbsp; His word is a shield (scripture).
    10.&nbsp; His word is upright, and truth (scripture).
    11.&nbsp; His word stands (scripture)."


    God's words are magnified, gracious, sound, profitable, for our learning, holy, cleansing, faithful, able to save, sure, incorruptible, and alive. faithful, able to save, sure, incorruptible, and alive.
     
  20. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild Sheep in Wolf's clothing

    +1
    Non-Denom
    Would be nice to have some attempt made to address the question that was asked.
     
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