Vengeful God? Why? Why go through all the trouble?

Confuzed001

New Member
Aug 29, 2016
1
0
43
USA
✟7,611.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Private
First and foremost, I don't consider myself to be christian. At one time, when I was younger, this all made sense to me. But I got older and started to question everything. And I apologize for the disjointed thoughts...its been a long day.

I've been recently been reading the bible (mainly new testament) and some of the things I am reading is bugging me. I've read a lot of things about "the end of times" and watching global news I guess you could say I am "seeing the signs". However, I have a question....the answer eludes me.

Reading a lot of things in Revelations and all other books dealing with the end of time.....Why does God go through such an elaborate process before he just "ends it"? Am I interpreting it wrong? The way I am reading it, it seems like

God does this...people die
God does that...people die
If you don't love and follow God....you will die (over and over for eternity but not really dying).

This whole thing goes on and on. I can't even begin to try and put a time period to it all.

I guess what I am getting at is this. Out of all the "End of time" prophecies....is God doing all this horrible things or is he just showing the prophets of what us people cause? I wish I knew more of the bible by memory to show some scripture about what I'm talking about. Take the part in revelations where it talks about the Mark of the Beast. If I don't take the mark, I won't be able to buy/sell things. If I do take the mark, I will burn in hell for all eternity.

I have a family that I am responsible for. I would, not for a second, make my children or family starve for anything. Am I literally supposed to simply "have faith" and potentially watch my family starve to death?

That's just the tip of the iceberg for me too. If God is doing all this just to prove a point....why? Why doesn't he just end it all? Why are we supposed to suffer before his return?
 

Serving Zion

Seek First His Kingdom & Righteousness
May 7, 2016
2,335
900
Revelation 21:2
✟223,022.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
First and foremost, I don't consider myself to be christian. At one time, when I was younger, this all made sense to me. But I got older and started to question everything. And I apologize for the disjointed thoughts...its been a long day.

I've been recently been reading the bible (mainly new testament) and some of the things I am reading is bugging me. I've read a lot of things about "the end of times" and watching global news I guess you could say I am "seeing the signs". However, I have a question....the answer eludes me.

Reading a lot of things in Revelations and all other books dealing with the end of time.....Why does God go through such an elaborate process before he just "ends it"? Am I interpreting it wrong? The way I am reading it, it seems like

God does this...people die
God does that...people die
If you don't love and follow God....you will die (over and over for eternity but not really dying).

This whole thing goes on and on. I can't even begin to try and put a time period to it all.

I guess what I am getting at is this. Out of all the "End of time" prophecies....is God doing all this horrible things or is he just showing the prophets of what us people cause? I wish I knew more of the bible by memory to show some scripture about what I'm talking about. Take the part in revelations where it talks about the Mark of the Beast. If I don't take the mark, I won't be able to buy/sell things. If I do take the mark, I will burn in hell for all eternity.

I have a family that I am responsible for. I would, not for a second, make my children or family starve for anything. Am I literally supposed to simply "have faith" and potentially watch my family starve to death?

That's just the tip of the iceberg for me too. If God is doing all this just to prove a point....why? Why doesn't he just end it all? Why are we supposed to suffer before his return?
Hi there, I just wanted to reflect to you upon the heart of posters below, to also extend to you a warm welcome to the forum! I am certain that you will be able to find the loving, supporting community here, to assist you on the right path.

I actually have slept on your problem since my response yesterday, and wanted to write a lot of useful information for you. But it just seems to me that your problem is much greater than this little bit that you have described here, and what you really need is to discover the true gospel, to really understand the heart of God properly.

It is a tricky world these days to find the truth, amidst the throng of contending voices.

Instead of simply offering an answer to you, please permit me to offer a prayer on your behalf, because I really feel that you need God to develop in you, a change of thought more than a simple answer.

Dear Heavenly Father, you are gracious, merciful, patient, good, fair, loving, kind, always able to speak to us when we need to hear your voice - and yet it is your voice that we often contend to listen to. We are grateful though, that up to this day, you have kept both me and our brother here in good condition, so that we can receive your instructions, your reproof, to be trained for your good purposes. I offer to you with that thankful heart, a request concerning our brother, who as you know full well, has come to a state of confusion yet still having a heart that longs for your love. Heavenly Father, I offer to you, a request that you will speak into this man's mind so clearly that he will have a sudden change of heart, to understand that the world is full of perilous false teachings, but that there is such a thing as absolute truth and that it can be known. I ask you to really open this man's mind to that reality, so that he can receive a new hope that motivates him to firmly grasp his salvation with all his might, honing his sight on the goal: that is to seek out the absolute truth, and having confidence, courage that you support him in this endeavour, so that he can firmly dismiss any ideas that seek to sway him from that goal, without being shaken from the path, and all the while having ears and eyes open and receptive to the truth whichever way it may come. We know Lord God, that all things are possible for you, so we ask that you will indeed choose to bring this man to salvation, and while you shape him for that character of faith, give him peace and hope by letting him see more and more of your true nature and the nature of the world we are in. Let him see that you are involved in his life, and that you have plans for him that are good. Plant in his mind these ideas that what he has dismissed as luck or self-achievement, actually have been your divine provision, then nurture those ideas as he goes, so that events and words throughout his day will reinforce to him that you have the greatest possible love - and that you want him to be able to fully receive that love. Heavenly Father, although these are requests for our selves, we also request for the sake of your kingdom and glory, subsequently the sake of the world to follow, please do continue to forgive us so graciously for our daily shortcomings, help us to understand and forgive others too for their shortcomings, seeing as we know the world is becoming excessively difficult toward us for that purpose, we also ask that you will strengthen our character, to make us more resilient and graceful, so that we may overcome our weaknesses before forgiveness need be sought. We pray of course with our hearts seeking your rightful place to be acknowledged as the sovereign king, so all the world will honour you, choosing to cooperate in making the world the delightful place you desire it to be. We pray in Jesus' name, because we acknowledge Him your anointed one, the rightful king. Amen.

I certainly do hope that you will seriously think your issue through, and begin a more thorough topic to try and get to the bottom of it. Surely we all know that truth is consistent and it does add up, so there must be something specifically about your beliefs that needs to be put right. It seems to me that essentially, your struggle is with the character of God - a logical inconsistency in your perception of facts vs. claims that He is holy, righteous, good, just, loving.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Chriliman

Everything I need to be joyful is right here
May 22, 2015
5,895
569
✟163,501.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
First and foremost, I don't consider myself to be christian. At one time, when I was younger, this all made sense to me. But I got older and started to question everything. And I apologize for the disjointed thoughts...its been a long day.

I've been recently been reading the bible (mainly new testament) and some of the things I am reading is bugging me. I've read a lot of things about "the end of times" and watching global news I guess you could say I am "seeing the signs". However, I have a question....the answer eludes me.

Reading a lot of things in Revelations and all other books dealing with the end of time.....Why does God go through such an elaborate process before he just "ends it"? Am I interpreting it wrong? The way I am reading it, it seems like

God does this...people die
God does that...people die
If you don't love and follow God....you will die (over and over for eternity but not really dying).

This whole thing goes on and on. I can't even begin to try and put a time period to it all.

I guess what I am getting at is this. Out of all the "End of time" prophecies....is God doing all this horrible things or is he just showing the prophets of what us people cause? I wish I knew more of the bible by memory to show some scripture about what I'm talking about. Take the part in revelations where it talks about the Mark of the Beast. If I don't take the mark, I won't be able to buy/sell things. If I do take the mark, I will burn in hell for all eternity.

I have a family that I am responsible for. I would, not for a second, make my children or family starve for anything. Am I literally supposed to simply "have faith" and potentially watch my family starve to death?

That's just the tip of the iceberg for me too. If God is doing all this just to prove a point....why? Why doesn't he just end it all? Why are we supposed to suffer before his return?

God uses time(ages) to teach us all truth and prepare us for His coming Kingdom. Right now we are in an age of grace where the Holy Spirit convicts us of our sin and encourages us to repent and follow Christ and gain true rewards in the coming Kingdom. So the best way to gain understanding is to ask for the Holy Spirit. You may begin being convicted, which leads to repentance and then God can teach you all truth through the Spirit.
 
Upvote 0

redleghunter

Thank You Jesus!
Supporter
Mar 18, 2014
38,116
34,054
Texas
✟176,076.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Thank you for being open to this forum.

Where to start?

From Isaiah

Isaiah 33:22 King James Version (KJV)
22 For the Lord is our judge, the Lord is our lawgiver, the Lord is our king; he will save us.


Can we start with the above?
 
Upvote 0

Greg J.

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Mar 2, 2016
3,841
1,907
Southeast Michigan
✟233,164.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Reading a lot of things in Revelations and all other books dealing with the end of time.....Why does God go through such an elaborate process before he just "ends it"? Am I interpreting it wrong? The way I am reading it, it seems like

God does this...people die
God does that...people die
If you don't love and follow God....you will die (over and over for eternity but not really dying).

This whole thing goes on and on. I can't even begin to try and put a time period to it all.

I guess what I am getting at is this. Out of all the "End of time" prophecies....is God doing all this horrible things or is he just showing the prophets of what us people cause? I wish I knew more of the bible by memory to show some scripture about what I'm talking about. Take the part in revelations where it talks about the Mark of the Beast. If I don't take the mark, I won't be able to buy/sell things. If I do take the mark, I will burn in hell for all eternity.
God is overseer of all things. It's like he is the independently wealthy owner and CEO of a company, but everyone in his company has been doing their own thing instead of doing what he said. Everything the CEO told people to do was for their benefit and not even a little bit for his own benefit.

What you see in Revelation is the actual company functioning, not the company that the CEO tried to make. The reason he let it get to that point is because intervening would have killed some employees who were trying to turn to his cohesive way of running the company and were actually helping the company overall. Instead he chose to try to talk to them to get them to change their ways because they were hurting each other. And it worked for some people, but the vast majority told him to get lost and behaved like they were the CEO of the company, each doing his own thing. Some of them even made a point of defacing the CEO's office, spreading lies about him, and even killed the CEO's son.

By not doing what the CEO wanted, now the company has gotten to the point that the employees are murdering each other on an ever-increasing scale. What should the CEO do at this point?
 
Upvote 0

Hawkins

Member
Supporter
Apr 27, 2005
2,559
394
Canada
✟235,114.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
First and foremost, I don't consider myself to be christian. At one time, when I was younger, this all made sense to me. But I got older and started to question everything. And I apologize for the disjointed thoughts...its been a long day.

I've been recently been reading the bible (mainly new testament) and some of the things I am reading is bugging me. I've read a lot of things about "the end of times" and watching global news I guess you could say I am "seeing the signs". However, I have a question....the answer eludes me.

Reading a lot of things in Revelations and all other books dealing with the end of time.....Why does God go through such an elaborate process before he just "ends it"? Am I interpreting it wrong? The way I am reading it, it seems like

God does this...people die
God does that...people die
If you don't love and follow God....you will die (over and over for eternity but not really dying).

This whole thing goes on and on. I can't even begin to try and put a time period to it all.

I guess what I am getting at is this. Out of all the "End of time" prophecies....is God doing all this horrible things or is he just showing the prophets of what us people cause? I wish I knew more of the bible by memory to show some scripture about what I'm talking about. Take the part in revelations where it talks about the Mark of the Beast. If I don't take the mark, I won't be able to buy/sell things. If I do take the mark, I will burn in hell for all eternity.

I have a family that I am responsible for. I would, not for a second, make my children or family starve for anything. Am I literally supposed to simply "have faith" and potentially watch my family starve to death?

That's just the tip of the iceberg for me too. If God is doing all this just to prove a point....why? Why doesn't he just end it all? Why are we supposed to suffer before his return?

You suffer because God gives everyone a free life time to expose who he is. That's the way how God eradicates evil once and for all. Earth is the 120 years for anything to show who he is thus for the 'good' ones to live an eternity. God's job is to eradicate evil in this process such that no one can bring his crap into the future heaven.

You suffer because humans are evil enough not to help. That's why the Bible says that no humans can stand before God to claim to be righteous. We all need Jesus Christ to be redeemed. We are forgiven by God and be considered righteous not because we can stand the Judgment of His Law, it's because have the faith to choose and abide by a Covenant His granted us through the blood of Jesus Christ.
 
Upvote 0

paul1149

that your faith might rest in the power of God
Supporter
Mar 22, 2011
8,460
5,268
NY
✟674,364.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Why does God go through such an elaborate process before he just "ends it"?

God could have ended it immediately after Adam fell. Or at least, within one generation of that event, the length it would have taken for Christ to appear and make atonement. But He didn't, because in His wisdom:
  • He wants as many possible to be saved.
  • He wants to raise us up into maturity and godliness. This is accomplished not only by saving us forensically, but by sanctifying us in practical fact and making us colaborers in the ministry of reconciliation. In this way we enter into true spiritual communion with Him.
  • He also wants the root issue - the slander against Him made in the Garden, that He rules over us selfishly - to be resolved, and He wants a people who are committed with Him to disproving that slander. That comes by us being faithful in an adverse world, even unto death.
Without the sanctification and the resolution of the root issue, there would be no basis for stability in the new Kingdom.
 
Upvote 0

Sketcher

Born Imperishable
Feb 23, 2004
38,978
9,399
✟378,031.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
They're all signs, I suppose. But I really don't think God has shown that efficiency is really a priority when dealing with us. Otherwise, why have two comings of the Messiah? Why not take care of all the prophesies in one go? Why wait hundreds of years after the promise to David to have Messiah come? Or hundreds more years after Moses? Why wait hundreds of years to send Moses when Israel was in slavery? Why not clean out the Canaanites and be done with it? Heck, why would he go through the trouble of preserving Noah and his family on a boat when he could have started over from scratch? For that matter, why plant the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden in the first place, to avoid this mess? Or why create humanity at all? Or the planet Earth or the solar system or the Universe? Or the angels? God is self-sufficient after all. Why create lesser beings when he knows they will turn away from his will and when he knows the destruction they will wreak on each other? That's certainly not efficient.

God's priorities are his own. Nothing we can really do about that, our role is to be forgiven by him, be in fellowship with him, and do what he would have us do. The first two come through Christ, the last is through the Holy Spirit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CrystalDragon
Upvote 0

aiki

Regular Member
Feb 16, 2007
10,874
4,348
Winnipeg
✟236,528.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
I guess what I am getting at is this. Out of all the "End of time" prophecies....is God doing all this horrible things or is he just showing the prophets of what us people cause?

God is our Creator and, to some, a loving Heavenly Father, and to the rest a wrathful and terrible Judge. But we can be reconciled to God and adopted into His family by receiving the gift of salvation He offers to us all in Jesus Christ. The horrible judgments of God upon a vile, sin-darkened World are a testament to the depth of the World's wickedness and to the perfectness of God's holy, righteous purity and justice.

If God were truly a capricious, evil God, He wouldn't have done what He did through His Son on the cross of Calvary. He would not be extending forgiveness and reconciliation to Himself to us, but only cruelty, horror, torment and death.

I have a family that I am responsible for. I would, not for a second, make my children or family starve for anything. Am I literally supposed to simply "have faith" and potentially watch my family starve to death?

Who gave you your family in the first place? Is keeping them fed always more important than refraining from doing what God has said is evil? Would you murder to feed your family? Would you make others starve that your family might be fed? Are there not some things that are so evil you would not do them even to save your family?

God sees you and your family. He knows exactly what each of you are experiencing at every moment. Is He not capable of providing for you even when you cannot see how? And if He does not provide, could He not have a higher purpose, one you cannot see, that He is pursuing in doing so? God has not made us merely for time, but for eternity. His perspective takes in all that comes after the relatively brief moments we spend on this globe and He is operating as much (or more) with a view to our eternity as to our present, temporal circumstances. He knows eternity is the main event, the big show, and He hopes we'll see things the same way. If we do, we will not be as concerned about our present condition because we know it is a fleeting, ephemeral thing in the context of the eternity to follow. This is why we read in the Bible:

Colossians 3:2
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

Matthew 6:19-21
19 "Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal;
20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal.
21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.


Selah.
 
Upvote 0

graceandpeace

Episcopalian
Sep 12, 2013
2,985
573
✟22,175.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
First and foremost, I don't consider myself to be christian. At one time, when I was younger, this all made sense to me. But I got older and started to question everything. And I apologize for the disjointed thoughts...its been a long day.

I've been recently been reading the bible (mainly new testament) and some of the things I am reading is bugging me. I've read a lot of things about "the end of times" and watching global news I guess you could say I am "seeing the signs". However, I have a question....the answer eludes me.

Reading a lot of things in Revelations and all other books dealing with the end of time.....Why does God go through such an elaborate process before he just "ends it"? Am I interpreting it wrong? The way I am reading it, it seems like

God does this...people die
God does that...people die
If you don't love and follow God....you will die (over and over for eternity but not really dying).

This whole thing goes on and on. I can't even begin to try and put a time period to it all.

I guess what I am getting at is this. Out of all the "End of time" prophecies....is God doing all this horrible things or is he just showing the prophets of what us people cause? I wish I knew more of the bible by memory to show some scripture about what I'm talking about. Take the part in revelations where it talks about the Mark of the Beast. If I don't take the mark, I won't be able to buy/sell things. If I do take the mark, I will burn in hell for all eternity.

I have a family that I am responsible for. I would, not for a second, make my children or family starve for anything. Am I literally supposed to simply "have faith" and potentially watch my family starve to death?

That's just the tip of the iceberg for me too. If God is doing all this just to prove a point....why? Why doesn't he just end it all? Why are we supposed to suffer before his return?

Hello.

First, the book of Revelation is an apocalyptic text that was written to give hope to early Christians who were suffering. Jesus was gone, Jerusalem (& the Second Temple) had been destroyed, the Apostles had died, persecution was beginning. It is within this context that Revelation is written - to tell Christians that one day God will set all things right. Tears, pain, & death will cease. Jesus is with them now & will, indeed, return. The fullness of the Kingdom of God will be realized at his coming.

All of that in mind, Revelation is not meant to make anyone afraid, even though some of the imagery is frightening. There is no secret code to crack, nor should people be taking paranoid ideas from the book. The text was primarily meant to give early Christians hope for the coming of Christ.

Second, I don't believe God causes anyone to die. For Christians, Jesus is the one who shows us what God is like. The Resurrection tells us that God defeats death & God raises people to life. There are certainly difficult passages in the Bible to deal with here, but if we read them with Jesus's example in mind, it can challenge how we think about them.

Third, not all Christians believe in "eternal torment." I don't. I do think Jesus believed in a possible exclusion from the Kingdom of God - but what that looks like or how long it would last could be debated.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

doomsayer2

But in a good way...
Sep 7, 2013
105
12
Atlanta,Ga.
✟16,093.00
Country
United States
Faith
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
...I wish I knew more of the bible by memory to show some scripture about what I'm talking about. Take the part in revelations where it talks about the Mark of the Beast. If I don't take the mark, I won't be able to buy/sell things. If I do take the mark, I will burn in hell for all eternity.

That's just the tip of the iceberg for me too. If God is doing all this just to prove a point....why? Why doesn't he just end it all? Why are we supposed to suffer before his return?

First off, the Mark of the Beast is the real test that finally separates the pretenders from the true followers or "Elect" chosen from the foundation of creation. I think it's real purpose is to remove the false believers from the rest,just as those 5 foolish virgins were cast out and 5 wise ones entered the Kingdom. Also it could just be something that has to be done to keep the half-hearted believers from stumbling into eternity unprepared to face their Maker. And the "Mark" I believe will make a whole lot of us prepared in a very short span of time.
But still,i must admit it all sounds a bit overdone and overkill, given the 2000 years we already have had to learn and become more like Christ...but then there lies the answer, in us as the "Church" still not being near that level.

My biggest problem from the perspective of someone who is probably not fully committed to that "Elect" group mentioned earlier,is WHY the suffering of so many with no relief,in this PRESENT age. There are people bedridden in hospitals and the like in constant pain without any real answer from any man(doctors) or God as to why.
And for any Atheist,this would certainly not encourage them to believe in a loving God. When all you look forward to after a near lifetime of pain, is suddenly to be in heaven and the first thing you do is bow at the feet of Christ,as if showing gratitude for your life of misery?? I know that sounds unfair to a God who basically gave Himself when He gave His Son,but that is not how the secular worldview sees it. And I believe when Anti-Christ finally arrives,he very well could provide all the answers they have been seeking,and much more than that! Apparently so, given that the majority of peoples from every corner of the globe will worship him. (I guess that officially counts out TRUMP!)
So then if we are having problems with finding the pleasures of our modern culture tempting, how much trouble will we be in when what is soon to come, suddenly arrives?!
 
Upvote 0

juvenissun

... and God saw that it was good.
Apr 5, 2007
25,446
803
71
Chicago
✟121,700.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Reading a lot of things in Revelations and all other books dealing with the end of time.....Why does God go through such an elaborate process before he just "ends it"? Am I interpreting it wrong? The way I am reading it, it seems like

Because God wants YOU. It takes time, if possible, to have YOU believe in Him.
The process is elaborated and long, because we, are very slow learners. It takes thousands of years to have enough people understand, and believe.

For example, you may not believe in your life time. But your son may become a believer. It takes some time.
 
Upvote 0

doomsayer2

But in a good way...
Sep 7, 2013
105
12
Atlanta,Ga.
✟16,093.00
Country
United States
Faith
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
But remember also that Satan WANTS YOU as well,and is more than willing to prove it when he shows up as Anti-Christ in the flesh. That's right,Satan IS Anti-Christ just as God was Christ in the flesh. And he will perform similar "miracles" that Christ did,such as causing fire to come down from heaven.(Revelation-13:13)
He will also most likely attempt to show as much "love" as Christ did towards ALL peoples,and will leave no one feeling excluded or left out. Of course warnings such as this will most likely be long forgotten once these things begin to take place,but those led astray will nonetheless be held accountable for not heeding them. It is all up to YOU...period.
 
Upvote 0