Veiling, a Christian custom for almost 2000 years, until modern feminist pride said "no"...

[Ohorseman]

Veiling, a Christian practice based upon scripture for almost 2000 years, until modern feminist pride said "no" to those scriptures, and OTHERS.

The Holy Spirit through Paul instructs Christian women to wear a head covering in church when they pray and prophesy (1 Corinthians 11). Before you say that was only for the church in Corinth, read it again. Paul tells us that all the churches had the practice. Also, one reason for women covering her head relates to the Angels. Certainly that feature makes it a timeless fixture that does not pass away, like some fashion trend. So we should hold to this Christian tradition, just as we do Communion. Some faith traditions obey in love and hold to this beautiful practice of worship. Many dismiss it.

To say that not veiling is a sin may or may not be correct. But it is correct to say that when we ignore certain instructions in the Bible that we fall into sin. To satisfy feminist pride, we have set aside so many scriptures. Where does that stop? This deconstruction and / or ignoring of scripture, it has not stopped. And, now it is a fact that there are people that call themselves Christian that do not even know if gay sex is a sin or not.

In these times, we dress casually for church. In the past, we dressed up for church. It's telling that we dress up for important things, like weddings, anniversaries, & funerals, but not church. Going to church is no longer a serious matter, nor is understanding and obeying the scriptures. We are casual with our dress, only wearing what we like. We are causal with the scriptures, only applying what we like. And parts of the Bible are just ignored. Veiling. Authority of a man. Submission. Marriage & sex between man and woman. There has been a cascading effect, and these scriptures are all too often ignored:

1 Corinthians 11, Corinthians 14:31-38, 1 Timothy 2:11–15, 1 Timothy 3:1-5 , Titus 1:5-9, Titus 2:2-5, Ephesians 5:22-24, Colossians 3:18-20, 1 Peter 3: 1-6, Matthew 19:4-6​

For starters, I think we all should do this: Study your Bible with other Christians. Understand it and apply it according to the long-time and traditional way, and not according to these liberal and modern ways that actually DECONSTRUCT the true meaning of scripture with weird social contexts and dubious / spurious ancient Greek translations, so as to appease some feminist pride and/or gay pride agenda. Read the Church Fathers, that will help too.

Do you think all Christians should go back to the Christian custom of a woman covering her head in church? Men dressing up again might help support and encourage the practice. How can we in good conscience set aside the Holy Spirit's instructions through Paul, while seeing around us all the ripple-effects of our disobedience?

I made this art of my wife wearing a head covering. It is an idealized & artistic depiction of her, from about 20 years ago.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Veiling, a Christian custom for almost 2000 years, until modern feminist pride said "no" and Christian men just watched... like Adam.

The Holy Spirit through Paul instructs Christian women to wear a head covering in church when they pray and prophesy (1 Corinthians 11). Before you say that was only for the church in Corinth, read it again. Paul tells us that all the churches had the practice. Also, one reason for women covering her head relates to the Angels. Certainly that feature makes it a timeless fixture that does not pass away, like some fashion trend. So we should hold to this Christian tradition, just as we do Communion. Some faith traditions are obedient and hold to this beautiful practice of worship. Many dismiss it.

To say that not veiling is a sin may or may not be correct. But it is correct to say that when we ignore certain instructions in the Bible that we fall into sin. To satisfy feminist pride, we have set aside so many scriptures. Where does that stop? It hasn't stopped. It won't stop. And, now it is a fact that there are people that call themselves Christian that do not even know if gay sex is a sin or not.

In these times, we dress casually for church. In the past, we dressed up for church. It's telling that we dress up for important things, like weddings, anniversaries, & funerals, but not church. Going to church is no longer a serious matter, nor is understanding and obeying the scriptures. We are casual with our dress, only wearing what we like. We are causal with the scriptures, only applying what we like. And parts of the Bible are just ignored. Veiling. Authority of a man. Submission. Marriage & sex between man and woman. There has been a cascading effect, and these scriptures are all too often ignored:

1 Corinthians 11, Corinthians 14:31-38, 1 Timothy 2:11–15, 1 Timothy 3:1-5 , Titus 1:5-9, Titus 2:2-5, Ephesians 5:22-24, Colossians 3:18-20, 1 Peter 3: 1-6, Matthew 19:4-6​

For starters, I think we all should do this: Study your Bible. Understand it and apply it according to the long-time and traditional way, and not according to these liberal and modern ways that actually DECONSTRUCT the true meaning of scripture with weird social contexts and dubious / spurious ancient Greek translations, so as to appease some feminist pride and/or gay pride agenda. Read the Church Fathers, that will help too.

Do you think we should go back to the custom of dressing up for church and women wearing veils? How can we in good conscience set aside the Holy Spirit's instructions through Paul, while seeing around us all the ripple-effects of our disobedience?

View attachment 316466​

I made this art of my wife wearing a head covering. It is an idealized & artistic depiction of her, from about 20 years ago.

I see a few veiled women in church. Two, maybe three or four. A small minority.

 

[HTacianas]

Veiling, a Christian custom for almost 2000 years, until modern feminist pride said "no" and Christian men just watched... like Adam.

The Holy Spirit through Paul instructs Christian women to wear a head covering in church when they pray and prophesy (1 Corinthians 11). Before you say that was only for the church in Corinth, read it again. Paul tells us that all the churches had the practice. Also, one reason for women covering her head relates to the Angels. Certainly that feature makes it a timeless fixture that does not pass away, like some fashion trend. So we should hold to this Christian tradition, just as we do Communion. Some faith traditions are obedient and hold to this beautiful practice of worship. Many dismiss it.

To say that not veiling is a sin may or may not be correct. But it is correct to say that when we ignore certain instructions in the Bible that we fall into sin. To satisfy feminist pride, we have set aside so many scriptures. Where does that stop? It hasn't stopped. It won't stop. And, now it is a fact that there are people that call themselves Christian that do not even know if gay sex is a sin or not.

In these times, we dress casually for church. In the past, we dressed up for church. It's telling that we dress up for important things, like weddings, anniversaries, & funerals, but not church. Going to church is no longer a serious matter, nor is understanding and obeying the scriptures. We are casual with our dress, only wearing what we like. We are causal with the scriptures, only applying what we like. And parts of the Bible are just ignored. Veiling. Authority of a man. Submission. Marriage & sex between man and woman. There has been a cascading effect, and these scriptures are all too often ignored:

1 Corinthians 11, Corinthians 14:31-38, 1 Timothy 2:11–15, 1 Timothy 3:1-5 , Titus 1:5-9, Titus 2:2-5, Ephesians 5:22-24, Colossians 3:18-20, 1 Peter 3: 1-6, Matthew 19:4-6​

For starters, I think we all should do this: Study your Bible. Understand it and apply it according to the long-time and traditional way, and not according to these liberal and modern ways that actually DECONSTRUCT the true meaning of scripture with weird social contexts and dubious / spurious ancient Greek translations, so as to appease some feminist pride and/or gay pride agenda. Read the Church Fathers, that will help too.

Do you think we should go back to the custom of dressing up for church and women wearing veils? How can we in good conscience set aside the Holy Spirit's instructions through Paul, while seeing around us all the ripple-effects of our disobedience?

View attachment 316466​

I made this art of my wife wearing a head covering. It is an idealized & artistic depiction of her, from about 20 years ago.

This is an Orthodox Church in modern times.

 

[PloverWing]

Clothing customs, including hats, vary widely from one place to another. Paul's churches were all within the Roman Empire, and probably followed customs of dress that were similar to each other. What advice Paul would have given to churches in, say, the Amazon Basin or southern Africa or the Pacific Islands or modern Canada, we cannot know. Perhaps he would have offered advice similar to Romans 14.

If dressing up (whatever "dressing up" means in your local culture) in worship is something you do as an offering to God, then do it. And similarly, if wearing a veil helps you to honor God, then go ahead and wear a veil.

 

[Ohorseman]

This is an Orthodox Church in modern times.

Beautiful. I wonder why most other Christian faith traditions fail to obey this scripture. Why? It is so straight forward, so plain. Our Eastern Orthodox brothers and sisters set the good example in this matter. I was not born into an Easter Orthodox context, but maybe one day the Lord will open a door to there.

This about man and woman, it is a root, a core issue. If we miss this then sin unravels us all, individually and as a collective... and we come to the place that we are now, a place of gender and sexuality confusion.

 

[Ohorseman]

Clothing customs, including hats, vary widely from one place to another. Paul's churches were all within the Roman Empire, and probably followed customs of dress that were similar to each other.

Cop-out. Disobedience. As stated in holy scripture, one feature of a woman covering her head is for the Angels. This makes it a universality, just like our Communion that is written about in the following scriptures. The Holy Spirit's instruction, not advice, is general in that it uses the wording " head covering". Each and every culture can accomplish this in a way that suits them culturally, and did for centuries. Modern women can wear a hat if the veil does not suit them. Amazonian women could wear a head dress that suits them. So could the Africans. And on and on.

What advice Paul would have given to churches in, say, the Amazon Basin or southern Africa or the Pacific Islands or modern Canada, we cannot know. Perhaps he would have offered advice similar to Romans 14.

Come now. If the Holy Spirit through Paul wanted to advise Christians concerning head coverings in a way similar to Romans 14, as you suggest, then he would have written something similar to Romans 14. But that was NOT written.

There is no justifiable reason to DECONSTUCT the scripture here. That road leads to gender confusion. Sexuality confusion. And soon we have gay priests, gay couple blessings and weddings, things like that. It is that exact same "logic" that allows gay pride to say they can have gay marriages... because when Jesus Christ said that marriage is between man and woman, He was only talking to the Jews in that time and place. Maybe such logic is a slippery slope to hell.

If dressing up (whatever "dressing up" means in your local culture) in worship is something you do as an offering to God, then do it. And similarly, if wearing a veil helps you to honor God, then go ahead and wear a veil.

Of course. Thanks for being amiable. But why do others deconstruct or ignore this instruction? I think your use of the word "advice" is out of place in this matter. But if you see it that way, it is advice that should be followed by all Christians... seeing how such advice comes from holy scripture.

Most of us getting away from head coverings, it coincides with the feminist movement. I like the movement - equal pay, treatment, opportunity, etc. But we can have those things while women cover their heads in church as instructed by the Holy Spirit through Paul's writings. All of us. Everywhere. After all, Angels are everywhere, and not just those areas of the ancient Roman Empire in times gone by.

 

[Kermos]

Veiling, a Christian practice based upon scripture for almost 2000 years, until modern feminist pride said "no" and Christian men just watched... like Adam.

The Holy Spirit through Paul instructs Christian women to wear a head covering in church when they pray and prophesy (1 Corinthians 11). Before you say that was only for the church in Corinth, read it again. Paul tells us that all the churches had the practice. Also, one reason for women covering her head relates to the Angels. Certainly that feature makes it a timeless fixture that does not pass away, like some fashion trend. So we should hold to this Christian tradition, just as we do Communion. Some faith traditions are obedient and hold to this beautiful practice of worship. Many dismiss it.

To say that not veiling is a sin may or may not be correct. But it is correct to say that when we ignore certain instructions in the Bible that we fall into sin. To satisfy feminist pride, we have set aside so many scriptures. Where does that stop? It hasn't stopped. It won't stop. And, now it is a fact that there are people that call themselves Christian that do not even know if gay sex is a sin or not.

In these times, we dress casually for church. In the past, we dressed up for church. It's telling that we dress up for important things, like weddings, anniversaries, & funerals, but not church. Going to church is no longer a serious matter, nor is understanding and obeying the scriptures. We are casual with our dress, only wearing what we like. We are causal with the scriptures, only applying what we like. And parts of the Bible are just ignored. Veiling. Authority of a man. Submission. Marriage & sex between man and woman. There has been a cascading effect, and these scriptures are all too often ignored:

1 Corinthians 11, Corinthians 14:31-38, 1 Timothy 2:11–15, 1 Timothy 3:1-5 , Titus 1:5-9, Titus 2:2-5, Ephesians 5:22-24, Colossians 3:18-20, 1 Peter 3: 1-6, Matthew 19:4-6

For starters, I think we all should do this: Study your Bible. Understand it and apply it according to the long-time and traditional way, and not according to these liberal and modern ways that actually DECONSTRUCT the true meaning of scripture with weird social contexts and dubious / spurious ancient Greek translations, so as to appease some feminist pride and/or gay pride agenda. Read the Church Fathers, that will help too.

Do you think we should go back to the custom of dressing up for church and women wearing veils? How can we in good conscience set aside the Holy Spirit's instructions through Paul, while seeing around us all the ripple-effects of our disobedience?

ATTACH=full316466/ATTACH

I made this art of my wife wearing a head covering. It is an idealized & artistic depiction of her, from about 20 years ago.

Godly modesty and humility are blessed gifts of the Holy Spirit of God upon the children of God (Galatians 5:22-23)!

The Apostle Paul sweetly culminates with “if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering” (1 Corinthians 11:15 KJV) followed by verse 16 which contains “we have no such custom” of the periscope you mentioned.

Paul wrote that we have no such women's veiling custom (1 Corinthians 11:16); moreover, Paul wrote that the assemblies of God have no such a women's veiling custom (1 Corinthians 11:16).

The woman’s long hair is a glory to her given as a covering; therefore, glory of head covering does not correpsond to dishonor. By definition, glory is not dishonor. This particularly refers back to verse 5.

Notice how Paul sweetly culminates as he progresses through the passage, let’s look at verse 12 of 1 Corinthians 11:1-16 “For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God” we find “all things of God” – wonderfully beautiful!

Additionally, Paul concords with Lord Jesus, Who tells us believers not to worry about what we wear (Matthew 6:24-34).

The Lord Jesus was asked by one of His disciples how to pray. The Lord’s instruction did not include “men shave your hair off” nor “men cut your long hair first” nor “women make certain your veil is properly fastened” nor “you women without veils, put your veils on first”. None of that. Lord Jesus taught “When you pray, say: ‘Father, hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come'” (Luke 11:2, but here is the more complete passage Luke 11:1-4).

Lord Jesus repeatedly said it’s about the inside – the outside shows the fruit of the Spirit inside – He said good works seen by others glorify God, for example with “Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven” (Matthew 5:16) and “If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also” (Matthew 5:40). Behold that Lord Jesus expresses the interpersonal communication component here, too. Powerful!

The deeds of the flesh by people who are not heirs of the kingdom of God (Galatians 5:19-21) include idolatry of the body (immodesty) as well as fleshy church pastors imposing man-made rules upon other people.

 

[Ohorseman]

Godly modesty and humility are blessed gifts of the Holy Spirit of God upon the children of God (Galatians 5:22-23)!

The Apostle Paul sweetly culminates with “if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering” (1 Corinthians 11:15 KJV) followed by verse 16 which contains “we have no such custom” of the periscope you mentioned.

Paul wrote that we have no such women's veiling custom (1 Corinthians 11:16); moreover, Paul wrote that the assemblies of God have no such a women's veiling custom (1 Corinthians 11:16).

The woman’s long hair is a glory to her given as a covering; therefore, glory of head covering does not correpsond to dishonor. By definition, glory is not dishonor. This particularly refers back to verse 5.

Notice how Paul sweetly culminates as he progresses through the passage, let’s look at verse 12 of 1 Corinthians 11:1-16 “For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God” we find “all things of God” – wonderfully beautiful!

Additionally, Paul concords with Lord Jesus, Who tells us believers not to worry about what we wear (Matthew 6:24-34).

The Lord Jesus was asked by one of His disciples how to pray. The Lord’s instruction did not include “men shave your hair off” nor “men cut your long hair first” nor “women make certain your veil is properly fastened” nor “you women without veils, put your veils on first”. None of that. Lord Jesus taught “When you pray, say: ‘Father, hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come'” (Luke 11:2, but here is the more complete passage Luke 11:1-4).

Lord Jesus repeatedly said it’s about the inside – the outside shows the fruit of the Spirit inside – He said good works seen by others glorify God, for example with “Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven” (Matthew 5:16) and “If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also” (Matthew 5:40). Behold that Lord Jesus expresses the interpersonal communication component here, too. Powerful!

The deeds of the flesh by people who are not heirs of the kingdom of God (Galatians 5:19-21) include idolatry of the body (immodesty) as well as fleshy church pastors imposing man-made rules upon other people.

Thank you , brother, for your thoughtful contribution. So much of what you say is good and right. HOWEVER, on the key issue and its related scriptures you have made a mistake in your interpretation. Since you indicate that you used the KJV, I will do likewise for a look at 1 Corinthians 11.

​

13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?
14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.​

From what is written in holy scriptures, the churches of God did NOT have the custom of a woman praying with her head uncovered. In other words, women cover their heads. A large body of early church writings and art also show this.

So, you write something factually incorrect. Then write many things that are true. In this, you are putting forward something false and covering it up with true things. Though it may be accidental. Your incorrect understanding is actually OPPOSITE of what the scriptures actually say.

So, my brother in Christ, if we really believe God is the potter and we are the clay, then women will cover their heads, as it is written.

 

[ViaCrucis]

The point is having a spirit of humility and modesty, not divinely instituted dress codes. St. Paul, as a Jew, would have spent his life covering his head during prayer, as was expected of Jewish men. Historically, only Jewish men covered their heads as a sign of respect and honor to God.

Paul, speaking to a predominantly Greek congregation uses Greek dress customs to make his point. Greek social norms were that men had (relatively) short hair while women had (relatively) long hair. Paul also speaks against dressing in ways that are flashy for the sake of modesty.

These things are culturally encoded. It does not, for example, mean that women have to literally wear a veil, or that women have to have hair of a certain length (or that men can't have theirs at a certain length).

Further, Paul's statement, "If anyone is inclined to be contentious, we have no such practice, nor do the churches of God" seems to suggest that such things are NOT Christian or church practice.

The Apostle is concerning himself with the unity of the Faithful, especially in their gathered worship. It's the thread that is holding 1 Corinthians together, that the Corinthian Christians need to stop being divided and bickering and come together in peace. That's why the Apostle brings up the Lord's Supper and the trouble of abuses of the Table--it was such a disorganized mess that people were getting drunk before everyone was even there, the Sacrament of the Table was being so disrespected that Paul even says that people are getting sick and some have even died. He continues this concern in chapter 12 where he speaks of the diversity of gifts but the unity of the Holy Spirit, he speaks of the central importance of love as the preeminent gift and virtue, "these three remain, faith, hope, and love; and the greatest of these is love". Paul continues his call to order and unity in chapter 14.

It doesn't really matter what someone wears, what matters is that when we gather we do so with the reverence and the love and the respect such deserves: we meet together in peace around Christ's Holy Table, to hear Christ's word, to be trained up and edified, to receive God's gifts, and are sent out in the love of God and the power of the Holy Spirit to inhabit our vocations as Jesus' disciples in the world.

Lest we forget "God is no respecter of persons", there is no partiality with God; and if we judge the outward appearance we ourselves shall be judged as transgressors of the Law (James 2:1-13).

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Ohorseman]

Further, Paul's statement, "If anyone is inclined to be contentious, we have no such practice, nor do the churches of God" seems to suggest that such things are NOT Christian or church practice.

No, brother. You too are getting it backwards. Read it more carefully.

Above I have the KJV of the related scriptures. This time I will use the NASB for the related verses from 1 Corinthians 11.

13 Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14 Does even nature itself not teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him, 15 but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? For her hair is given to her as a covering. 16 But if anyone is inclined to be contentious, we have no such practice, nor have the churches of God.​

Surely you see that means that no church had the practice of a woman praying with her head "uncovered". You are literally saying the opposite of what the Bible says. Literally.

Seriously, ya'll. Are you guys joking around here, LOL ???

​

 

[Kermos]

Thank you , brother, for your thoughtful contribution. So much of what you say is good and right. HOWEVER, on the key issue and its related scriptures you have made a mistake in your interpretation. Since you indicate that you used the KJV, I will do likewise for a look at 1 Corinthians 11.

13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?
14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.
From what is written in holy scriptures, the churches of God did NOT have the custom of a woman praying with her head uncovered. In other words, women cover their heads. A large body of early church writings and art also show this.

So, you write something factually incorrect. Then write many things that are true. In this, you are putting forward something false and covering it up with true things. Though it may be accidental. Your incorrect understanding is actually OPPOSITE of what the scriptures actually say.

So, my brother in Christ, if we really believe God is the potter and we are the clay, then women will cover their heads, as it is written.

I do not interpret scripture, for I am utterly dependent upon the Hoy Spirit to give me revelation (2 Peter 1:20-21).

I prefer the NASB, but let's look at the YLT:

13 In your own selves judge ye; is it seemly for a woman uncovered to pray to God?
14 doth not even nature itself teach you, that if a man indeed have long hair, a dishonour it is to him?
15 and a woman, if she have long hair, a glory it is to her, because the hair instead of a covering hath been given to her;
16 and if any one doth think to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the assemblies of God.

From the Apostle Paul's writing, the assemblies of God did NOT have the custom of women covering their head while praying (see verse 16).

Paul wrote of "nature", see verse 14.

Women's default nature is to have hair (in the vast majority of cases).

The default state for females is not to have their head covered by a veil because females are born naturally in the flesh without a veil.

There can only be one of two conditions with respect the "custom" in verse 16:

1. women can pray with the female hair.
2. women can pray with the female head covered by a veil.

Since women have hair (vast majority), then it's natural for women to have hair.

It is not "custom" for women to have hair (see verses 14 and 15).

A "custom" is specifically the custom of women covering their head with a veil, even a veil in addition to the female hair.

Truly, you misinterpreted Paul because more accurately you have Paul writing "we have no such custom for women to have hair".

Your incorrect understanding is actually OPPOSITE of what the scriptures actually say.

Truly, Paul wrote that we have no such women's veiling custom (1 Corinthians 11:16); moreover, Paul wrote that the assemblies of God have no such a women's veiling custom (1 Corinthians 11:16).

AND YOU COMPLETELY DISREGARDED THAT PAUL IS IN ACCORD WITH LORD JESUS WHO TELLS US BELIEVERS NOT TO WORRY ABOUT WHAT WE WEAR (MATTHEW 6:24-34).

The Lord Jesus was asked by one of His disciples how to pray. The Lord’s instruction did not include “men shave your hair off” nor “men cut your long hair first” nor “women make certain your veil is properly fastened” nor “you women without veils, put your veils on first”. None of that. Lord Jesus taught “When you pray, say: ‘Father, hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come'” (Luke 11:2, but here is the more complete passage Luke 11:1-4).

Lord Jesus repeatedly says it’s about the inside – the outside shows the fruit of the Spirit inside – He said good works seen by others glorify God, for example with “Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven” (Matthew 5:16) and “If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also” (Matthew 5:40). Behold that Lord Jesus expresses the interpersonal communication component here, too. Powerful!

Godly modesty and humility are blessed gifts of the Holy Spirit of God upon the children of God (Galatians 5:22-23)!

The deeds of the flesh by people who are not heirs of the kingdom of God (Galatians 5:19-21) include idolatry of the body (immodesty) as well as fleshy church pastors imposing man-made rules upon other people such as female veiling.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I do not interpret scripture, for I am utterly dependent upon the Hoy Spirit to give me revelation (2 Peter 1:20-21).


From the Apostle Paul's writing, the assemblies of God did NOT have the custom of women covering their head while praying (see verse 16).

Paul wrote of "nature", see verse 14.

Women's default nature is to have hair (in the vast majority of cases).

The default state for females is not to have their head covered by a veil because females are born naturally in the flesh without a veil.

There can only be one of two conditions with respect the "custom" in verse 16:

1. women can pray with the female hair.
2. women can pray with the female head covered by a veil.

Since women have hair (vast majority), then it's natural for women to have hair.

It is not "custom" for women to have hair (see verses 14 and 15).

A "custom" is specifically the custom of women covering their head with a veil, even a veil in addition to the female hair.

Truly, you misinterpreted Paul because more accurately you have Paul writing "we have no such custom for women to have hair".

Your incorrect understanding is actually OPPOSITE of what the scriptures actually say.

Truly, Paul wrote that we have no such women's veiling custom (1 Corinthians 11:16); moreover, Paul wrote that the assemblies of God have no such a women's veiling custom (1 Corinthians 11:16).

AND YOU COMPLETELY DISREGARDED THAT PAUL IS IN ACCORD WITH LORD JESUS WHO TELLS US BELIEVERS NOT TO WORRY ABOUT WHAT WE WEAR (MATTHEW 6:24-34).

The Lord Jesus was asked by one of His disciples how to pray. The Lord’s instruction did not include “men shave your hair off” nor “men cut your long hair first” nor “women make certain your veil is properly fastened” nor “you women without veils, put your veils on first”. None of that. Lord Jesus taught “When you pray, say: ‘Father, hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come'” (Luke 11:2, but here is the more complete passage Luke 11:1-4).

Lord Jesus repeatedly says it’s about the inside – the outside shows the fruit of the Spirit inside – He said good works seen by others glorify God, for example with “Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven” (Matthew 5:16) and “If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also” (Matthew 5:40). Behold that Lord Jesus expresses the interpersonal communication component here, too. Powerful!

Godly modesty and humility are blessed gifts of the Holy Spirit of God upon the children of God (Galatians 5:22-23)!

The deeds of the flesh by people who are not heirs of the kingdom of God (Galatians 5:19-21) include idolatry of the body (immodesty) as well as fleshy church pastors imposing man-made rules upon other people such as female veiling.

I love Sola Scriptura. Because of it I get to read novel interpretations all the time.

You say you do not interpret Scripture. That you get it straight from the Holy Spirit. But your interpretation is actually backwards. There is no custom among Christians of Paul's time for women NOT having their heads covered at prayer. But you say this information comes direct from the Holy Spirit. Considering you got it backwards, are you still claiming the Spirit of Truth told you this? I know, I know, Sola Scriptura means never having to admit a mistake, but in this case I think everyone else can see it.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Veiling, a Christian practice based upon scripture for almost 2000 years, until modern feminist pride said "no" to those scriptures, and OTHERS.

The Holy Spirit through Paul instructs Christian women to wear a head covering in church when they pray and prophesy (1 Corinthians 11). Before you say that was only for the church in Corinth, read it again. Paul tells us that all the churches had the practice. Also, one reason for women covering her head relates to the Angels. Certainly that feature makes it a timeless fixture that does not pass away, like some fashion trend. So we should hold to this Christian tradition, just as we do Communion. Some faith traditions obey in love and hold to this beautiful practice of worship. Many dismiss it.

To say that not veiling is a sin may or may not be correct. But it is correct to say that when we ignore certain instructions in the Bible that we fall into sin. To satisfy feminist pride, we have set aside so many scriptures. Where does that stop? This deconstruction and / or ignoring of scripture, it has not stopped. And, now it is a fact that there are people that call themselves Christian that do not even know if gay sex is a sin or not.

In these times, we dress casually for church. In the past, we dressed up for church. It's telling that we dress up for important things, like weddings, anniversaries, & funerals, but not church. Going to church is no longer a serious matter, nor is understanding and obeying the scriptures. We are casual with our dress, only wearing what we like. We are causal with the scriptures, only applying what we like. And parts of the Bible are just ignored. Veiling. Authority of a man. Submission. Marriage & sex between man and woman. There has been a cascading effect, and these scriptures are all too often ignored:

1 Corinthians 11, Corinthians 14:31-38, 1 Timothy 2:11–15, 1 Timothy 3:1-5 , Titus 1:5-9, Titus 2:2-5, Ephesians 5:22-24, Colossians 3:18-20, 1 Peter 3: 1-6, Matthew 19:4-6​

For starters, I think we all should do this: Study your Bible with other Christians. Understand it and apply it according to the long-time and traditional way, and not according to these liberal and modern ways that actually DECONSTRUCT the true meaning of scripture with weird social contexts and dubious / spurious ancient Greek translations, so as to appease some feminist pride and/or gay pride agenda. Read the Church Fathers, that will help too.

Do you think all Christians should go back to the Christian custom of a woman covering her head in church? Men dressing up again might help support and encourage the practice. How can we in good conscience set aside the Holy Spirit's instructions through Paul, while seeing around us all the ripple-effects of our disobedience?

View attachment 316466​

I made this art of my wife wearing a head covering. It is an idealized & artistic depiction of her, from about 20 years ago.

So I had an idea. You know how making something optional usually makes a practice disappear? How about having women going without a veil be optional. That way the no veil practice would eventually disappear. Announce in your assemblies that it is acceptable to wear a veil, totally optional, allowed now, no requirements to have to do it, permitted for those who want to, oh, and Paul thought it was normal.

 

[Tigger45]

This is an Orthodox Church in modern times.

This is also an (Antiochian) Orthodox parish in modern U.S.A and women covering their heads during prayer and or worship is totally optional.View attachment 316537

 

[Tigger45]

This is also an (Antiochian) Orthodox parish in modern U.S.A and women covering their heads during prayer and or worship is totally optional.

 

[Ohorseman]

I do not interpret scripture, for I am utterly dependent upon the Hoy Spirit to give me revelation (2 Peter 1:20-21).

I prefer the NASB, but let's look at the YLT:

13 In your own selves judge ye; is it seemly for a woman uncovered to pray to God?
14 doth not even nature itself teach you, that if a man indeed have long hair, a dishonour it is to him?
15 and a woman, if she have long hair, a glory it is to her, because the hair instead of a covering hath been given to her;
16 and if any one doth think to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the assemblies of God.

From the Apostle Paul's writing, the assemblies of God did NOT have the custom of women covering their head while praying (see verse 16).

Paul wrote of "nature", see verse 14.

Women's default nature is to have hair (in the vast majority of cases).

The default state for females is not to have their head covered by a veil because females are born naturally in the flesh without a veil.

There can only be one of two conditions with respect the "custom" in verse 16:

1. women can pray with the female hair.
2. women can pray with the female head covered by a veil.

Since women have hair (vast majority), then it's natural for women to have hair.

It is not "custom" for women to have hair (see verses 14 and 15).

A "custom" is specifically the custom of women covering their head with a veil, even a veil in addition to the female hair.

Truly, you misinterpreted Paul because more accurately you have Paul writing "we have no such custom for women to have hair".

Your incorrect understanding is actually OPPOSITE of what the scriptures actually say.

Truly, Paul wrote that we have no such women's veiling custom (1 Corinthians 11:16); moreover, Paul wrote that the assemblies of God have no such a women's veiling custom (1 Corinthians 11:16).

AND YOU COMPLETELY DISREGARDED THAT PAUL IS IN ACCORD WITH LORD JESUS WHO TELLS US BELIEVERS NOT TO WORRY ABOUT WHAT WE WEAR (MATTHEW 6:24-34).

The Lord Jesus was asked by one of His disciples how to pray. The Lord’s instruction did not include “men shave your hair off” nor “men cut your long hair first” nor “women make certain your veil is properly fastened” nor “you women without veils, put your veils on first”. None of that. Lord Jesus taught “When you pray, say: ‘Father, hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come'” (Luke 11:2, but here is the more complete passage Luke 11:1-4).

Lord Jesus repeatedly says it’s about the inside – the outside shows the fruit of the Spirit inside – He said good works seen by others glorify God, for example with “Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven” (Matthew 5:16) and “If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also” (Matthew 5:40). Behold that Lord Jesus expresses the interpersonal communication component here, too. Powerful!

Godly modesty and humility are blessed gifts of the Holy Spirit of God upon the children of God (Galatians 5:22-23)!

The deeds of the flesh by people who are not heirs of the kingdom of God (Galatians 5:19-21) include idolatry of the body (immodesty) as well as fleshy church pastors imposing man-made rules upon other people such as female veiling.

What you are writing about a woman covering her head is indeed the opposite of what is written in the Bible . You repeating it and claiming to have help from the Holy Spirit does not change that you got it backwards.

 

[1watchman]

Yes, God has told us to be taking "...all the counsel of God" and "rightly dividing the Word of Truth", but mankind like to have their own ideas (called "carnality" in the Bible; i.e. worldliness). It seems Christianity is getting further from Scripture every few years, with many churchy ideas.
Let us remember there will be a "Judgment Seat of Christ" in Heaven for true saints (as John 3:16), to be rewarded or not, called "the great white throne"; and rewards given to Christians as either: "gold, silver, precious stones"; or "wood; hay; stubble" as our reward as to faithfulness in honoring and obeying God, or living carnally and dishonoring our Creator-God --see book of Revelation.

Religious people and carnal Christians like to innovate in all things, and this has been going on since after the advancement of the Gospel by such as Martin Luther and other faithful preachers; and the raising up of denominated sects, after the Gospel was recoverd from the RC religion in the 1500 AD period which was exposed of their tyranny.

There was a movement to recover Church Truth in 1800 AD in Ireland thereafter to recognize the 'priesthood' of all saints (called the 'Brethren Movement'); though it also had some exremists later who separated from 'Bible-only' to have their own way and add denominated leaders and very loose and carnal assemblies. One can learn about all this history at Bible Truth Publishers, Addison, IL -USA; where one can get much readings on Church history, and studies by Bible scholars; beside many writings and material for Christian studies. I value that resource!

Customs must not be our source of Christian walk, but ALWAYS honoring and obeying God by our Holy Bible --would you say?

 

[RDKirk]

Thank you , brother, for your thoughtful contribution. So much of what you say is good and right. HOWEVER, on the key issue and its related scriptures you have made a mistake in your interpretation. Since you indicate that you used the KJV, I will do likewise for a look at 1 Corinthians 11.

​

13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?
14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.​

From what is written in holy scriptures, the churches of God did NOT have the custom of a woman praying with her head uncovered. In other words, women cover their heads. A large body of early church writings and art also show this.

So, you write something factually incorrect. Then write many things that are true. In this, you are putting forward something false and covering it up with true things. Though it may be accidental. Your incorrect understanding is actually OPPOSITE of what the scriptures actually say.

So, my brother in Christ, if we really believe God is the potter and we are the clay, then women will cover their heads, as it is written.

So what of the millions of African women whose hair will not grow long?

 

[ViaCrucis]

I love Sola Scriptura. Because of it I get to read novel interpretations all the time.

You say you do not interpret Scripture. That you get it straight from the Holy Spirit. But your interpretation is actually backwards. There is no custom among Christians of Paul's time for women NOT having their heads covered at prayer. But you say this information comes direct from the Holy Spirit. Considering you got it backwards, are you still claiming the Spirit of Truth told you this? I know, I know, Sola Scriptura means never having to admit a mistake, but in this case I think everyone else can see it.

That's Nuda Scriptura, not Sola Scriptura.

Sola Scriptura recognizes the importance of historic Christian teaching and tradition.

Nuda Scriptura is nonsense.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[chevyontheriver]

That's Nuda Scriptura, not Sola Scriptura.

Sola Scriptura recognizes the importance of historic Christian teaching and tradition.

Nuda Scriptura is nonsense.

-CryptoLutheran

While I agree with you I think the distinction goes miles over the heads of most Sola Scriptura adherents. I think the caricature IS the most common belief, sadly.