Vanity Fair Cover: Caitlyn (Bruce) Jenner

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StephanieSomer

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Nobody is born into the wrong anything. If you need to take hormones to change your physical state, clearly there is something not natural about it. I think the reason the media is sensationalizing a famous athlete's decision to pretend to be a woman and call it normal is simply a continuation of what has been happening in the past decade (or longer) and that is America's rapid decline into wickedness.

I've seen and read huge amounts of data that conflict with your assertion. What data can you provide a link to which will offer some support for your position?
 
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StephanieSomer

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Just found this ironic story: Man’s Post About Caitlyn Jenner and ‘True Bravery’ Goes Viral — Then He Learned of ‘Ironic Twist’ | The Blaze

In an ironic twist, I have discovered that the photo is part of a documentary created by a man who was beaten nearly to death outside of a bar in 2000. After spending 9 days in a coma, suffering severe brain damage and being unable to walk or talk for a year, he chose to try and cope with his pain from the tragic event, by creating a world of stories and characters and photos set in WWII. The image I chose, was one of those created for an upcoming documentary. Why was he nearly beaten to death by 5 strangers?

Because he was a cross-dresser.

A transsexual is not a cross-dresser. Nothing you posted has any relevancy.
 
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katerinah1947

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Was anapanasati specifically tried?

In any case, I'd like to clarify that I have no personal opposition against people who decide to undertake surgery, etc. It's their individual choice. And, no, I do not believe it is a "sin".

I am merely pointing out that, in my opinion, things like surgery does not address the root cause, but only superficialities.

Not that I'm aware of, but I cannot definitively say no. I am not aware of any studies on whether it would work for trans people either, which is why I asked you about that as well.



Thanks for that. That is always appreciated. I was actually getting a different sense from how you started in this topic, which caused me to probably treat you more rudely than I should have, so my apologies.



The current belief among researchers, far as I know, is that gender dysphoria is caused by a developmental mismatch between brain and body. They have not suggested any way of literally switching the brain over in that sense.

If I may say, though, it sounds like your suggested treatment doesn't address the root cause, instead separating it from the person's daily experience so that it could be more effectively ignored.

Hi,
Anapanasati, ( http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anapanasati ) is a practice someone I know uses. It is meditation in general. All meditation seems to have a goal. This one is mindfulness.
Although this will take some time to delve into what is meant here, the idea that gender is not seen to exist in the after life, (not discussed in the article), is a belief system entirely opposite of say Peter Kreefts idea of gender in souls. http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics/sex-in-heaven.htm
So, it would seem that meditation would seem a normal tool to use, like avoidance, if LGBTI issues arise to Budhists. It is a tool they use anyway, it seems.
I do have someone I know who is a meditation person, and their efforts have been pretty much a failure on alcoholism for that person, despite protestations that meditation can cure any illness.
A friend of mine has a similar experience with another acquaintance on health and medition. Sorry, I don't know that person's stance on health and meditation.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .
 
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katerinah1947

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IMO, for the vast majority of people, the consciousness is intimately entangled with the brain/mind and with the inputs to the brain/mind (five senses). This is the result of childhood training - whether advertently or inadvertently. With that said, the consciousness often passively allows the mind to control the whole being (and delusionally identifies with the mind), like an owner (consciousness) who allows himself to be dragged along all over the place on a leash with an untrained, wild dog (the mind). Consciousness-entanglement with the material prevents the full power of the consciousness from being realized.

Consciousness possesses no gender; when one approaches high levels of meditation where the consciousness "disconnects" from the mind, one loses gender identity. This corresponds with both Christian and Buddhist teachings (no gender in the heavens).

I'm not saying gender isn't "real," because it is. It is real on the material plane of existence, which is discarded upon death (or realized before death, through the meditative process). All I am considering is that it is - to me - unskillful to focus on changing the body instead of taking the opportunity to train the mind and elevate the consciousness.

Hi,
I was not aware of no gender in heaven as a Christian idea. In our books we have the first thing God ever created in all of what is called Creation to Christians. She is female. She does not have a body. And, all people who interact with her, know her as female, a woman.
I have seen her through others. It is something that was granted to me. I have felt her off my left shoulder, it is something that was granted to me.
As you might see this, yes it is a high gift in Chrisitianity. Few have this, few have been granted this, and for whatever really nice reason, I have had this at times also.
Christian meditation exists and does not exist, as the words get really confusing. For, me only , I refuse becsause of Christian prohibitions to do anything resembling getting in touch with the spirits of the dead. That, almost forbids all forms of meditation, like you have mentioned. However, I do have from time to time, things given to me of a intellectual nature to maybe you, and that merely happens when I don't try, but am working on a possible solution to a Biblical or Spiritual problem.
For me, the most information comes, when I am helping someone else. It also happens only when I am helping someone else.
I have sensed the feminine, a very beautiful woman, who is there in moments when I am helping to solve a problem for others, technically.
Christians do have statements that talk about no marriage or being given in marriage in heaven. That does not imply, no gender. It is neutral on the subject.
Peter Kreeft, things souls do have a gender. http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics/sex-in-heaven.htm
Also for you only, when I have dealt with The God, He seems very masculine. I know of one man historically who has dealt with Jesus, and he has said that even though he found himself falling in love (a romantic prhase for a male) twice, he is totally heterosexual. He also said, upon first meeting Jesus as a person and as a Spritual person that to Christians is also God, by virtue of Him being part of The Trinity as Chriistians call that concept, that He is the most masculine entity he has ever encountered.
Believing there is no gender in the after life for lack of a better set of words between us, would cause one to think meditation can cure the root of the problem, it seems to me.
However, I am told gender and angels is a presentation item to humans, and they are neither male nor female. We though are said to be not angels in the after life, but like angels, and gender is mentioned nowhere yet, in our presentation after this life, even though we have the risen Jesus example, The Wisdom example, and I have my interactions with Mary now, and God, in which they interface with me, in the genders they were presented to the world Biblically as.
So, in Christianity, and for me, gender may indeed exist, in the afterlife.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .
 
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katerinah1947

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Just found this ironic story: Man’s Post About Caitlyn Jenner and ‘True Bravery’ Goes Viral — Then He Learned of ‘Ironic Twist’ | The Blaze

In an ironic twist, I have discovered that the photo is part of a documentary created by a man who was beaten nearly to death outside of a bar in 2000. After spending 9 days in a coma, suffering severe brain damage and being unable to walk or talk for a year, he chose to try and cope with his pain from the tragic event, by creating a world of stories and characters and photos set in WWII. The image I chose, was one of those created for an upcoming documentary. Why was he nearly beaten to death by 5 strangers?

Because he was a cross-dresser.

Hi,
I do share this part of my life. I have PTSD, and some of it is from items similar to, but not as intense as that picture.
In civilian combat scenarios, where I can be killed, or others killed, I wonder if part of the reason I am so calm in those situations, is similar to the cross dresser in that photo?
I am stunned at times. I even have to ask myself, why do I fall apart in some situations and not in others?
Usually when a life is at stake, I don't fall apart till later, and in a situation like that cross dresser in that WWII photo, I never recover totally ever. I do however cover up that side of me in public, but it took me 18 months the last time in order to be what I call semi-human, again.
Yes, I wondered why you posted that article, and why you objected to Stephanie's response. I think I know now. Your point was a little hard, even for me, and I am transgendered.
I wondered what it meant. And, I think I can totally identify with the possible reasons that man is so giving. It might be this. He chose love over every other emotion, for his being a cross dresser. I say that I understand your point, that this is just a lighter form only of being transgendered, but still very much the exact same phenomenon.
So, she, is still me in that way, and I am her.
Yes, I know everyone will want to use the male pronouns on her, and I will too if that honors courage, the courage in that person to always pick and use love, over ever other reaction, even in WWII combat, and now later in life, after almost unspeakable horrors were inflicted upon him/her, later in life.
For you dear, all of us LGBTI, worry about being beaten, just like that man/woman. And many of us are.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .
 
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katerinah1947

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That shows a deploring lack of understanding about the posted article. I'll await your apology after you read the article.

Hi,
I still have trouble with your point. Yes, it is ironic a man posts real courage as compared to Caitlyn, then find out that in maybe all ways that are important, his friend is also Caitlyn also. But I fail to see the irony, as courage takes many forms and strong individuals actually are tender and mild inside and do choose love over ever other emotion.
I am sorry, if I am slow. What is the irony? Is it that, in putting down Caitlyn he failed, and learned something, that you can be both? And, yes I am the last person to understand everything it seems. So, if you can allow me to be what I am here also, and help me to see why this is ironic.
Oh! It's because the person, he chose to be more courageous than Caitlyn, is actually trangendered also. Oh. I think I undersand.
Do I?
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .
 
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ananda

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Hi,
Anapanasati, ( http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anapanasati ) is a practice someone I know uses. It is meditation in general. All meditation seems to have a goal. This one is mindfulness.
Although this will take some time to delve into what is meant here, the idea that gender is not seen to exist in the after life, (not discussed in the article), is a belief system entirely opposite of say Peter Kreefts idea of gender in souls. http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics/sex-in-heaven.htm
So, it would seem that meditation would seem a normal tool to use, like avoidance, if LGBTI issues arise to Budhists. It is a tool they use anyway, it seems.
I do have someone I know who is a meditation person, and their efforts have been pretty much a failure on alcoholism for that person, despite protestations that meditation can cure any illness.
A friend of mine has a similar experience with another acquaintance on health and medition. Sorry, I don't know that person's stance on health and meditation.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .
Actually, anapanasati is a specific type of meditation; there are many types out there. IMO most meditative practices do have a goal of achieving mindfulness and usually ends there, but anapanasati goes far beyond that. Anapanasati starts with the practice of sati (mindfulness), which in turn is used as a tool to reach samadhi (meditative absorption) through jhanic (meditative states) samatha (cooling the mind), and thereafter vipassana (investigative wisdom) towards nibbana (enlightenment). It is not avoidance, however. It takes great, persistent training to reach jhana, much less vipassana.
 
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ananda

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Hi,
I was not aware of no gender in heaven as a Christian idea. In our books we have the first thing God ever created in all of what is called Creation to Christians. She is female. She does not have a body. And, all people who interact with her, know her as female, a woman.
I have seen her through others. It is something that was granted to me. I have felt her off my left shoulder, it is something that was granted to me.
As you might see this, yes it is a high gift in Chrisitianity. Few have this, few have been granted this, and for whatever really nice reason, I have had this at times also.
Christian meditation exists and does not exist, as the words get really confusing. For, me only , I refuse becsause of Christian prohibitions to do anything resembling getting in touch with the spirits of the dead. That, almost forbids all forms of meditation, like you have mentioned. However, I do have from time to time, things given to me of a intellectual nature to maybe you, and that merely happens when I don't try, but am working on a possible solution to a Biblical or Spiritual problem.
For me, the most information comes, when I am helping someone else. It also happens only when I am helping someone else.
I have sensed the feminine, a very beautiful woman, who is there in moments when I am helping to solve a problem for others, technically.
Christians do have statements that talk about no marriage or being given in marriage in heaven. That does not imply, no gender. It is neutral on the subject.
Peter Kreeft, things souls do have a gender. http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics/sex-in-heaven.htm
Also for you only, when I have dealt with The God, He seems very masculine. I know of one man historically who has dealt with Jesus, and he has said that even though he found himself falling in love (a romantic prhase for a male) twice, he is totally heterosexual. He also said, upon first meeting Jesus as a person and as a Spritual person that to Christians is also God, by virtue of Him being part of The Trinity as Chriistians call that concept, that He is the most masculine entity he has ever encountered.
Believing there is no gender in the after life for lack of a better set of words between us, would cause one to think meditation can cure the root of the problem, it seems to me.
However, I am told gender and angels is a presentation item to humans, and they are neither male nor female. We though are said to be not angels in the after life, but like angels, and gender is mentioned nowhere yet, in our presentation after this life, even though we have the risen Jesus example, The Wisdom example, and I have my interactions with Mary now, and God, in which they interface with me, in the genders they were presented to the world Biblically as.
So, in Christianity, and for me, gender may indeed exist, in the afterlife.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .
Thanks for sharing. :oldthumbsup:

I should have clarify that some sects of Christianity (gnostics included) believe that there is no gender in heaven. There is gender in the lower heavens in Buddhist cosmology. In the middle and higher heavens, there is no gender.
 
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Smidlee

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Babies are born with bad things wrong with them, so if a baby can have something wrong with them, so could Jenner. Also I don't see this being evil.
You are right we are born as sinners. Psalms 14


Just found this ironic story: Man’s Post About Caitlyn Jenner and ‘True Bravery’ Goes Viral — Then He Learned of ‘Ironic Twist’ | The Blaze

In an ironic twist, I have discovered that the photo is part of a documentary created by a man who was beaten nearly to death outside of a bar in 2000. After spending 9 days in a coma, suffering severe brain damage and being unable to walk or talk for a year, he chose to try and cope with his pain from the tragic event, by creating a world of stories and characters and photos set in WWII. The image I chose, was one of those created for an upcoming documentary. Why was he nearly beaten to death by 5 strangers?

Because he was a cross-dresser.
In another words the picture was meant a little misleading. Most people would assume "this is a picture of bravery" was not referring to the one who was taking the picture. To me getting beat up for whatever the reason is not the same as you risking your own life to save another. This picture could have easily come from a car where the person was killed by a drunk driver.
Someone who going to make millions (and fame) just by changing his sex is no where near the same as someone who risking his life to save another.
 
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katerinah1947

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Actually, anapanasati is a specific type of meditation; there are many types out there. IMO most meditative practices do have a goal of achieving mindfulness and usually ends there, but anapanasati goes far beyond that. Anapanasati starts with the practice of sati (mindfulness), which in turn is used as a tool to reach samadhi (meditative absorption) through jhanic (meditative states) samatha (cooling the mind), and thereafter vipassana (investigative wisdom) towards nibbana (enlightenment). It is not avoidance, however. It takes great, persistent training to reach jhana, much less vipassana.

Hi,
I jumped. Let me tell you why first. I was treated to The Essence of God one day. The female that is known as The Virgin Mary to Christians is the one who treated me to this. The next day, I was treated to the core personality of Jesus The Christ. And on the next day, I was treated to seeing this Virgin Mary, as she existed on earth when she was 49 years old, immediately before she died, here on earth. The year was 2006. The month was January. It was the middle of January.
Off the point, an entity that I had dealt with for years, approaches me and has a question asked to me. I am to make a decision. That decision changed my life, and for eternity. It cannot be undone.
Back on the point, Nirvanna, the other word for nibanna in your article, I think I experienced in that January 2006, encounter, though in the section just involving a Command from the one The Christians call The Holy Spirit and then engaging with the one The Christians call Jesus The Christ.
It took my third attempt at matching the one called Jesus to do this. On the second attempt, something similar to nibanna happened. It took till the third and final and totally succesful attempt, to reach what you may call, nibanna. For the peace that came over me, defies human words. It is still here. I have no more questions about earth, or the universe, or even the parts of the universe that we as humans cannot see yet, FOR I HAVE SEEN. I have felt. I have touched.
Even the envelope, and now for you, the envelope that encloses the known and unknown universe, this I have seen, this my hands have touched. I know where the earth is. I know where it's place is, in that envelope.
I am a scientist of sorts. No, longer do some things interest me, as I know.
I also care not to be here.
I also lament being on earth.
I also love as that is all that I am now.
I wonder what Buddha meant?
And, outside of what exists, there is nothing. Inside is all that we know. I have seen those that are like the angels. I have seen all of them, I think. I have seen those that are not with the angels, like is stated by those who have reached nibanna/Nirvanna in the things written by those who have reached that state.
Why am I telling you all of this. I do not know yet. Maybe it is because, I who know God and what God is, and what God does, and how He did creation in terms of matter and energy but not spirit yet, would like you to know of one, who might have reached your nibanna, but also am Christian.
This year, I have been working with angels, and those called saints, in the departed from this earth form, to Chrisitians. I just thought you should know.
Also, do not try and pray for me. It doesn't work. You can do it, but none of your efforts go to me. Instead they go to others, or back to you.
I know what that means. Also, do not think of me as anything, great, rather think of me if you can, as one smaller than anyone or anything in existence. As that too, is a difficult thing for people to understand.
As your lesser, I can love you. As your lesser, I can work for you. And as horrible as this might sound to Christians, I can serve anyone there is.
For you Christians, my being able to serve anyone, is by an allowance, otherwise I could not do my job, the one I accepted when I said 'YES!' one day. It just seemed appropriate, for that new job.
The point might be, if what you say is true, and my life is also true, maybe there is something here for you to think about.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .
 
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mmksparbud

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Nobody is born into the wrong anything. If you need to take hormones to change your physical state, clearly there is something not natural about it. I think the reason the media is sensationalizing a famous athlete's decision to pretend to be a woman and call it normal is simply a continuation of what has been happening in the past decade (or longer) and that is America's rapid decline into wickedness.

There are literally millions of people who have to take hormones for all sorts of reasons!!! Including menopause--which can be brought on by the removal of your uterus--my mother died of cancer because she thought the surgery would mean she was no longer the woman God made her! She refused the surgery that would have saved her life, and died at 42. At 40 I had a total hysterectomy and had both uterus and ovaries removed. People get no end of ideas of what is in God's mind. Do you know there are many men who have had to have their genitals removed due to cancer?? And the elderly can start morphing slightly into the opposite sex when their hormones decline too far. Yep, descended into unnatural wickedness??
I've been on thyroid since 22. My friend has to take estrogen as otherwise her testosterone levels go to high and she starts getting masculine, not to mention a little aggressive and hairy.
 
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ananda

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Hi,
I jumped. Let me tell you why first. I was treated to The Essence of God one day. The female that is known as The Virgin Mary to Christians is the one who treated me to this. The next day, I was treated to the core personality of Jesus The Christ. And on the next day, I was treated to seeing this Virgin Mary, as she existed on earth when she was 49 years old, immediately before she died, here on earth. The year was 2006. The month was January. It was the middle of January.
Off the point, an entity that I had dealt with for years, approaches me and has a question asked to me. I am to make a decision. That decision changed my life, and for eternity. It cannot be undone.
Back on the point, Nirvanna, the other word for nibanna in your article, I think I experienced in that January 2006, encounter, though in the section just involving a Command from the one The Christians call The Holy Spirit and then engaging with the one The Christians call Jesus The Christ.
It took my third attempt at matching the one called Jesus to do this. On the second attempt, something similar to nibanna happened. It took till the third and final and totally succesful attempt, to reach what you may call, nibanna. For the peace that came over me, defies human words. It is still here. I have no more questions about earth, or the universe, or even the parts of the universe that we as humans cannot see yet, FOR I HAVE SEEN. I have felt. I have touched.
Even the envelope, and now for you, the envelope that encloses the known and unknown universe, this I have seen, this my hands have touched. I know where the earth is. I know where it's place is, in that envelope.
I am a scientist of sorts. No, longer do some things interest me, as I know.
I also care not to be here.
I also lament being on earth.
I also love as that is all that I am now.
I wonder what Buddha meant?
And, outside of what exists, there is nothing. Inside is all that we know. I have seen those that are like the angels. I have seen all of them, I think. I have seen those that are not with the angels, like is stated by those who have reached nibanna/Nirvanna in the things written by those who have reached that state.
Why am I telling you all of this. I do not know yet. Maybe it is because, I who know God and what God is, and what God does, and how He did creation in terms of matter and energy but not spirit yet, would like you to know of one, who might have reached your nibanna, but also am Christian.
This year, I have been working with angels, and those called saints, in the departed from this earth form, to Chrisitians. I just thought you should know.
Also, do not try and pray for me. It doesn't work. You can do it, but none of your efforts go to me. Instead they go to others, or back to you.
I know what that means. Also, do not think of me as anything, great, rather think of me if you can, as one smaller than anyone or anything in existence. As that too, is a difficult thing for people to understand.
As your lesser, I can love you. As your lesser, I can work for you. And as horrible as this might sound to Christians, I can serve anyone there is.
For you Christians, my being able to serve anyone, is by an allowance, otherwise I could not do my job, the one I accepted when I said 'YES!' one day. It just seemed appropriate, for that new job.
The point might be, if what you say is true, and my life is also true, maybe there is something here for you to think about.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .
Thanks for sharing your experiences! It is indeed a rare opportunity to directly experience some of the heavens, and Nibbana!
 
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Kirsten

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There are literally millions of people who have to take hormones for all sorts of reasons!!! Including menopause--which can be brought on by the removal of your uterus--my mother died of cancer because she thought the surgery would mean she was no longer the woman God made her! She refused the surgery that would have saved her life, and died at 42. At 40 I had a total hysterectomy and had both uterus and ovaries removed. People get no end of ideas of what is in God's mind. Do you know there are many men who have had to have their genitals removed due to cancer?? And the elderly can start morphing slightly into the opposite sex when their hormones decline too far. Yep, descended into unnatural wickedness??
I've been on thyroid since 22. My friend has to take estrogen as otherwise her testosterone levels go to high and she starts getting masculine, not to mention a little aggressive and hairy.
And?
 
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katerinah1947

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Thanks for sharing your experiences! It is indeed a rare opportunity to directly experience some of the heavens, and Nibbana!

Hi,
Your statement of ...., and Nibbana! ,,, surprised me. I am happy actually to think that at least one person says that may have happened. Let me tell you why now. I will tell you my way, and with help.

"Bridges"
"What doe that mean", I just asked this man.
"I don't know. I have always thought homosexuals were okay."
"And", I asked him. He never answered me.
"Where did you get that from? Who told you that?" He never answered me.

The point of this is, that I have never known what 'bridges meant'

The man I am speaking of, is one who can see auras. He is also Christian. He is also Pentacostal, I think. I never did quite get that all straight. He also always acted weird around me being in places and finding me and acting like he knew God, in those days, when I did not.

On the 'bridges' day, which may mean nothing more than I have enough in me, to understand all people and all religions, I aleady Knew, not believed, but Knew God is Real, and I had already met Him and been asked that question by Him. The one I responded YES! to. I responded by the way with my yes, in YES! form, on the third day. This was no easy decision, involving eternity and a person, other than mine's happiness. It was for that person, whom I worried and distressed over, as I did not know if I could do, what was being asked of me. I will give you more on that if you need it.
So months or weeks after being asked that question and responding, I meet this man again. We are alone. I have no idea, why I detained him then. I did though, if I remember. We talked.
For some reason, I asked him this question and this is the one that got him an early death on earth I think, and yes I am assured he is quite happy and that is family is well taken care of, in all ways. "Can you see my aura?" He responds. I instantly respond. My head is down. Words have departed from my mouth. He heard all of them. I was disturbed and hurt. Somehow I thought then and maybe now, no one is supposed to know for real. Maybe they are all just supposed to wonder, right now. Here, I had told this man, from my needs to know something, the total truth about me, and He Did understand.
The only other person who also knew, and by a different method, as I am struggling to handle being on this earth still, and then one by one everyone heard, she too died an untimely death. She too was very close to the Chrisitian God.
So, I am afraid to say what I said, as what if, when people Know for sure, they all get an early trip to see God? Why will people not think of me as evil, if that is actually true, rather than just being the case in those two people's cases?
However, 'bridges' whatever it means, may mean I can relate to you also, as I have in your mind reached Nibbana!. I don't know about those other heavens though.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .
 
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Archaeopteryx

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I find it questionable that if a person thinks they're a woman when they're actually a man that it's easier to transform the body than simply transforming their mind.
You think "transforming the mind" is simple? Transform your mind, right now. Become more tolerant of trans people.
 
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katerinah1947

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Thanks for sharing your experiences! It is indeed a rare opportunity to directly experience some of the heavens, and Nibbana!

Hi,
Would you mind watching this. I know this is about an artist. Let me know what you think of his words, as if I am really am Bridges, then there is something here for you also.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .
 
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CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

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You are right we are born as sinners. Psalms 14
But babies are born deformed, with other medical problem. These aren't sins. Also their no proof Caitlyn wasn't born as a woman in her brain. That would be a medical problem. Not a sin.
 
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