Vaccinations

[ShirChadash]

Shalom

What does Judaism say about vaccinations? Do Jews commonly have concerns and avoid some or all of the routine vaccinations, many of which are cultured in filthy substances, some of which use aborted fetal tissue, some of which have far more mercury than seafoods pregnant women are warned to avoid due to the high mercury contamination (and I assume those seafoods are -- many of them -- unkosher)? Just curious.

Todah

 

[visionary]

I am curious too...would love to see what decisions and opinions are on the subject.

 

[Nossa-the-Lame]

The idea behind vaccinations is not a bad thing, I would assume its oky doky in the torah. Its just what they use to give the vaccination, or the methods used to get it. So vaccines used from aborted tissues is not good, also vaccines with non-kosher products is a no no! So yeah, I would say if its kosher, go ahead and get it, but its not, then find an alternative.

 

[ShirChadash]

Actually, when one considers the frankly undeniable (by those who don't have a hand in the pot, despite the protests of those who do have a hand in the pot) link between various vaccines and the rise in autism, multiple sclerosis, juvenile lukemia, and a host of other chronic ailments and diseases... and when one looks into the issue of what is *in* vaccinations AND how they are cultured... one can easily see many reasons why one might choose not to receive them. G-d created our bodies to develop immunity to the diseases we encounter and very few people are truly in need of most of the various vaccinations (indeed, some are in need of some).

It is widely known (though not often admitted) in medical circles that debilitating and deadly diseases were on the decrease in this country and elsewhere once better hygeine practices became the norm and even before popular vaccines were introduced, the incidences of many of those diseases, such as polio, were already sharply declining. I am also aware that in many pagan third-world countries, their very pagan practices and self-serving governments keep them from having the clean living-conditions and good-nutrition needed to increase the health of their people. Vaccines may simply be a panacea, but in that case I am not saying they are unwarranted.

And the process of vaccination entirely bypasses the natural, G-d-given defenses the body has to protect against nearly all types of substances that one is vaccinating against -- most types of illness against which one vaccinates are illnesses that enter the body through mucous membranes/respiratory system, but vaccinations are often (not always -- often) injected directly into the bloodstream, giving it direct access to our vital organs and every area of our bodies... the genetic makeup of the virus attaches itself to our very DNA and replicates itself becoming a part of our genetic "blueprint".

My Dh and I decided a long while ago that if we or our children (being in a relatively low-risk lifestyle and not travelling much ourselves) incur a debilitating or deadly disease in the course of everyday-living, then that's a G-d thing no different from a car-accident or other "happeneing"and He will see us through it. But at this point in life, we personally won't be allowing anyone to give vaccinations to our children that may be the very direct cause for them to incur a debilitating disease or damage any part of their bodies, which is happening all too often today and should at least be considered as part and parcel of the rise in a great many ailments as well as behavioral problems among children. However, our children feel a strong call to missions as well and we have told them that when they are of an age to read and consider the data, and determine for themselves whether they want to receive vaccinations, they may do so if they choose to. We are teaching them the type of foods one can eat to boost immunity -- and which foods compromise their immunity and their bodies' ability to fight disease. We are equipping them to make wise choices in living, and our three younger children who have not been vaccinated, handle the (rare) colds and flus we manage to get far better than my elder three who were fully vaccinated through age 5 or so.

There is validity to be found on both sides of the fence on this, though usually people entrenched on either side cannot admit that about the other. I wasn't intending to get into debate about vaccinations -- I am asking if anyone knows whether this is an issue in Jewish communities or whether, like most people, folks just happily believe they should go along with the norm. Are those who are more likely to live according to kosher standards also more concerned over vaccinations as well? I would expect that, like other things people have mentioned, perhaps the Orthodox would be more concerned and those who are nominal Jews (who might be less concerned with issues of kosher) might have little-to-no uncommon concern as people go... but just speculating and curious, as I said.

 

[muffler dragon]

I am not for vaccinations. I have not had any since before college. My wife and I have decided that our daughter will not receive shots. I have researched the topic enough to come to a very informed decision on the matter. Considering the carrier agents are toxic enough in themselves, I feel at peace in not having them done. Besides, every time I got a flu shot, it made me sick.

One thing that people don't realize is that right around the time that people decided to give a rip about their hygiene (1950s and so) is when diseases started to go the way of the dodo. Coincidence? I don't think so.

m.d.

 

[muffler dragon]

I went to Germany and was not checked for vaccinations. At the time, there was a small polio scare going through.

If you (anyone reading) happens to do the research, then you will find a number of interesting things.

Such as: transmittance of diseases now comes more from freshly vaccinated children then those who are not, the majority of childhood diseases (if contracted when young) can actually help with natural defenses against diseases at a later age.

 

[Nossa-the-Lame]

I am not sure how many vaccinations I have gotten, I know I got the tetenus shot, and maybe some when I was a kid. I couldn't recieve many because they gave them in certain products I was alergic too, now its a little late to recieve them, nor would I really. I am allowed to get the flu vaccine every winter, but I don't. And I haven;t gotten the flu in almst 10 years, I think, maybe even longer. For now, the best way to avoid disease/sickness is wash your hands! WAsh them before every meal, don't touch your face, stay away from anyone who sneezes/coughs or may be sick, no matter what the ailment! I know all about illness prevention, I mean I did at one point have to wear a medical mask when I had to leave my house!

 

[muffler dragon]

Good pieces of advice. I will keep it in mind.

Another thing to point out is this: should my daughter desire to do anything that is structured around the necessity of having shots; then that is her consideration to deal with. Naturally, I am thinking once she is an intelligent adult that can think for her own. However, in the interim, my daughter's best interests are in mind (as they are for any child). Alayna was born naturally, and yes, this was my wife's idea just as much as mine. She has not had shots and she is growing like a weed. She gets illnesses, but nothing life threatening. Now, that she is 2 1/2 her immune system is quite strong.

My wife is 23. She has never had chicken pox, even though she was exposed many times on purpose by her parents. I just think that the body is naturally made to be repellent to certain things. For those that we do contract, if it isn't life-threatening; it can only make the immune system stronger.

 

[ShirChadash]

Said it already and I'll say it again -- I am not saying there are never legitimate circumstances in which some might choose vaccination. If my children choose to go on missions' trips, they will have to have them by law -- I realize this, and they can make that choice when they are old enough to.

*hoping someone who knows the answer to my OP will come along and make this not a thread that is a debate about vaccinations*

 

[Sephania]

Found this, was like I thought, not injestable so.............



ARE VACCINATIONS KOSHER?







Question:

News reports say that Israel is considering giving smallpox vaccinations to all of its citizens. How can they do this when the smallpox vaccination contains rat blood, monkey brains, and human fetal tissue? Don’t they know that these things are treif?





Answer:

While we have not heard about a smallpox vaccine with rat blood in it, the vaccine does contain monkey kidney cells and human fetal tissue as stabilizers. These are both non-kosher. However, the smallpox vaccine is not taken orally. Rather it is an inoculation. There is no prohibition to use these specific non-kosher substances, so long as they are not eaten.



An interesting halachic opinion by Rabbi Chaim Ozer Grodzenski states that if a man is fed through a tube directly into his stomach, then he is allowed to be fed non-kosher foods[1]. Similarly, a diabetic can use insulin, even though it contains substances derived from pigs, since it is injected and not taken orally[2].



There is no prohibition in using medicines which contain forbidden ingredients if they are administered by injection, suppository, enema, medicated bandage, and the like, since they are not eaten.



However, if the medicated bandage contained milk and meat, then it would be prohibited, even if it is not administered orally, because substances containing milk and meat together are not only forbidden to be eaten, but a person is not to receive any enjoyment from them whatsoever[3]. For instance, one is not allowed to eat the flesh of a pig, but a Jew could make a football from its skin. However, a football made by compacting meat and milk would be prohibited.



Medicines containing ingredients that are prohibited to be eaten, that must be taken orally, should preferably be replaced with medicines comprised of permitted ingredients, as long as they are equally effective.



Of course, if a person’s life depends on receiving an oral medicine that contains non-kosher ingredients, he is certainly allowed to have it. Even if there is no danger to a person’s life, and a non-kosher medicine is prescribed, there are a few instances where its usage would be allowed. For instance, if the medicine has no nutritional value and is not considered fit for human consumption, nor for that of a dog, then it is allowed. Medicines in capsules or medicines which have a bitter taste are examples. Even if an otherwise bitter medicine is coated with sugar, this does not transform it into food and most halachic authorities consider these medicines unfit for a dog[4]. Also, if the forbidden ingredients were altered chemically, or if they have completely dried out, then the medicine is permitted, even if the patient’s life in not in danger[5].



Since capsules often contain gelatine made from non-kosher ingredients, some halachic authorities prohibit their use. Other authorities permit them[6]. If it is possible to obtain the same medicine, not in capsule form, then it is advisable to obtain it.





It is important to point out the deeper moral aspect of these questions. Once a mother brought her son to the famed Rabbi Akiva Eiger. She complained that the boy wasn’t able to comprehend the Talmudic discussions known as the Tosefot. The rabbi asked if the boy had ever eaten anything not kosher, explaining that non-kosher foods contaminate the brain and damage intellectual reasoning.



May the New Year bring health to all people as it says in the Prophets, “Then the eyes of the blind will be opened, and the ears of the deaf will hear; then the lame will leap like a ram, and the tongue of the deaf will sing”[7].





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



1. Responsa, Achiezer, Vol. 3:61.

2. Encyclopedia of Medicine and Jewish Law, Vol. 3, Pg. 271, edited by Dr. Avraham Steinberg.

3. See Pesachim 24B.

4. Shmirat Shabbat K’ Hilchata, Pg. 460.

5. Responsa, Tzitz Eliezer, Vol 6:16.

6. Ibid, Vol. 10:25, sub-section 2.

7. Isaiah, 35:6.

 

[Sephania]

This is also interesting

Certainly, vaccinations are not Kosher (Leviticus). Some Catholic leaders in the US are finally supportive of Catholics opposed to vaccines including those containing aborted human fetuses. [See the Catholic religious exemption letter at: www.cogforlife.org] There are also clear Biblical proscriptions against mixing animal and human blood (Ezekiel). Lastly, many Buddhists and Hindus do not eat meat. When an animal is slaughtered for food, the pain and suffering and fright experienced by the animal remain in the meat in the form of negative energy. Many religious groups find it undesirable to take this kind of energy into the body. Therefore, the animal parts from a tortured animal would be that much worse. In the case of vaccinations, we are not just eating the meat we are injecting it directly into the bloodstream.

 

[ShirChadash]

I was not debating... I was having an intellectual discussion with fellow Messianics.
I just have a different viewpoint and I very much enjoy engaging in civil discussion with others who see things differently. It helps me learn more.

I hope you can respect my opinions as I respect all of yours.

Nope, just saying I hope it doesn't turn into a hot thread before someone can come and answer the OP -- I've seen vacc threads go very, very badly on numerous online boards and then get dumped into the trash without the OP answered, whatever it might have been. Hoping to get an answer... besides curiousity, it is important to me personally. Also if you read my posts I think it should be clear I do respect others' opinions on this and don't expect anyone to hold mine.

 

[Sephania]

So I wonder which ones have which "ingredients".
I know nothing of any vaccines that contain aborted fetuses...
And are there truly vaccines with animal blood in them?
This is all news to me!

Apparently ( see my post above from an Ask the Rabbi site , sorry about it not posting before ). This is all news to me as well, Goes to show though, how we depend on science and put so much faith in it that we let them inject us with unknown stuff because 'they' say we need it and it's good for us. Makes you wonder how that same cattle mentality will do many in, in the future one world to come.

 

[ShirChadash]

Some links:

http://www.informedchoice.info/cocktail.html

http://www.whale.to/vaccines/ingredients1.html

Hepatitis vaccines, Measles/mumps/rubella, and others often use aborted fetal cells in the culturing.

I don't have many links anymore, but lots come up right away on google.

Here's one I have read before:

http://www.thinktwice.com/


And from one of the sites Zayit linked:

http://www.cogforlife.org/

 

[muffler dragon]

http://www.cdc.gov/

That may be of help as well.

I have to admit, I find the CDC some what biased. But that is simply my opinion.

 

[Katydid]

From what I have read, the increase in autism is due to the mercury in the vaccines. They have not put mercury in vaccines for children since 1999. I just read that somewhere so don't quote me. Anyway, we don't have much choice but to vaccinate. I mean we could choose not to, for the kids, and myself, but my husband has no choice. And of course that opens up problems. If he gets vaccinated for something then we need to be protected as well, considering he is bringing that into the house. As someone else said, the spread starts partially due to vaccinated people. Now my husband lucked out of the small pox vaccine because I was pregnant and then because our daughter was under 1. They can't let you get it if you have a pregnant woman or infant living in the household. The scary thing about that one, is that if someone touches the site of the vaccine, then they can actually contract smallpox. Now to me that is really scary.

 

[ShirChadash]

From what I have read, the increase in autism is due to the mercury in the vaccines. They have not put mercury in vaccines for children since 1999. I just read that somewhere so don't quote me.

I'm gonna quote you anyway (cuz you know I love ya )

But anyway, I wanted to let you know that, while that is true that the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) directed the vaccine manufacturers to take mercury out of all childhood vaccines, there was no mandate that the existing vaccines which contain mercury be destroyed rather than given out, and it was only a "recommendation" which could be (and apparently some companies have) ignored. There are still some vaccines with mercury being administered to this day, if I recall correctly. And vaccines for adults have no such recommendation, I believe. The flu vaccines can have anywhere from a trace of mercury, about 0.3 microgram of mercury, up to 25 micrograms of mercury (which would be about 80 times more mercury then those with trace amounts). These amounts of mercury are many times higher than the mercury in fish that pregnant women are counselled to avoid due to the risks to their unborn child.

But, also wanted to say I realize that in the military there isn't really any other option given. We've BTDT to small degree ourselves.

 

[Katydid]

Thanks for that input, I wonder if there is anyway to find out which batches have mercury and which don't. That would be a good thing. Of course, it's not like the Army is going to tell me which batch they have. But, it would be nice.

 

[ShirChadash]

Thanks for that input, I wonder if there is anyway to find out which batches have mercury and which don't. That would be a good thing. Of course, it's not like the Army is going to tell me which batch they have. But, it would be nice.

I'm sure you can ask for no-added-mercury vaccines... Seems to me that certain of the companies make them and others don't... off to google...



Erm, well, I would definitely ask, and read your consent forms before signing them so you can know... there might also be measures you can take to ensure that your children react minimally, Kat -- definitely follow the conventional wisdom and don't vax when they are already sniffling or showing any signs of illness, make sure their nutrition is good (refined sugar and flours, lots of sweets, refined foods in general really, are all known to compromise immunity for a time).

Read up on every single vaccine they are going to be getting and even though it means a lot more trips to the doctor for you (and they may give you guff about it, too, but you have to remember it's your and your child's lifelong issue -- not the doctors') try to get them to give only one vaccine to your child at a time, rather than multiples in one visit. Spacing the vax's out gives your child time to fight each one and get over the compromise to his immune system before getting hit with another weak or dead-virus vax.

Just my .62

 

[Katydid]

I heard about that. I heard that you can request a different schedule for your child to be put on. You go in, something like, every two months for two years, and they end up with all of them, but spaced out a bit. I thought about that, but for some reason, I get scared to talk about things with these docs. And, don't tell her I said this, but the vaccination nurse at our clinic is mean. I mean very very mean. I saw her training a new guy to take over the job and she was berating him. She scares me.