US to force gay diplomats to marry

[hedrick]

Given that Trump's constituency tends to oppose gay marriage it seems a bit odd that we're forcing gay diplomats to get married:

US will only grant diplomatic visas to married couples, not domestic partnerships - CNNPolitics

The world isn't surprised when the US tries to force its own policies on the world, but gay marriage isn't something I expected Trump's folks to try and force on the world. Of course for people outside the 25 countries where gay marriage is legal this can present difficulties.

 

[Dan the deacon]

I doubt if Trump decided this with gays in mind.

 

[hedrick]

I doubt if Trump decided this with gays in mind.

Huh? The change in policy affects only gays. Previously the US had accepted non-married gay partnerships, treating them as equivalent to heterosexual marriage. Because gay marriage is now legal, we've stopped doing so, and will accept only actual marriage, both for US diplomats and most foreign diplomats in the US. The change affects only gays, so it's hard to see how it wasn't decided with gays in mind.

They've given diplomats who are in gay relationships a deadline to get married. There are some exceptions, but for most gays this applies.

 

[Dan the deacon]

Huh? The change in policy affects only gays. Previously the US had accepted non-married gay partnerships, treating them as equivalent to heterosexual marriage. Because gay marriage is now legal, we've stopped doing so, and will accept only actual marriage, both for US diplomats and most foreign diplomats in the US. The change affects only gays, so it's hard to see how it wasn't decided with gays in mind.

They've given diplomats who are in gay relationships a deadline to get married. There are some exceptions, but for most gays this applies.

I have never heard of a law that applies to gays and not heterosexuals. Are you sure about this?

 

[Mountainmanbob]

CNN) — Under new State Department requirements, the United States will only recognize marriages -- not same-sex partnerships -- when granting diplomatic visas to partners.

According to the Bible that would be correct.
M-Bob

 

[hedrick]

I have never heard of a law that applies to gays and not heterosexuals. Are you sure about this?

Yes. Previously we had allowed same sex partnerships that weren't marriage. Remember that until recently that's all many States had. and it's all many countries still have, so we were making allowance for gays because many legal systems treated them differently. In the US that's no longer true, so we're dropping that. As of now it's the same for gays and non-gays. The new policy is cleaner from the US standpoint, but is inconsistent with laws in many countries that send us representatives.

The difficulty is that only about 10% of countries have gay marriage, so we're imposing our standards of recognizing gay marriage on others. However I can't tell how significant this is. Some can simply get married. One couple has already done that. The concern is for people from countries where getting in a gay marriage could put them at risk in their home countries. There are certainly many countries like that. But what's hard to know is whether people from those countries would have officially declared gay partners under the old policy.

The US also says we may make allowance for representatives from countries that don't have gay marriage. But they also say that people at the UN don't qualify, as they aren't representing a country. That represents about half of the diplomats. So for US diplomats and UN people at least, we are going to be forcing gay couples to get married, and others will be case by case negotiation with a bureaucracy.

 

[Albion]

Artful wording can make the issue seem other than it is. But the fact of the matter is that gays fought hard to achieve a certain equality of marriage. Even now, the term 'marriage equality' gets use a lot, and that is long after the Supreme Court decided the issue in favor of same-sex marriage. Remember??

So the question really is this: Does the girlfriend of a person admitted to the USA from another country automatically get to come also? The answer is No.

But should they?

If not, why should gays who are unmarried get special privileges? What is the argument AGAINST equality now?

(That thing about other countries not being fair, ergo we are required to right their wrongs for them isn't one.)

 

[Kaon]

Given that Trump's constituency tends to oppose gay marriage it seems a bit odd that we're forcing gay diplomats to get married:

US will only grant diplomatic visas to married couples, not domestic partnerships - CNNPolitics

The world isn't surprised when the US tries to force its own policies on the world, but gay marriage isn't something I expected Trump's folks to try and force on the world. Of course for people outside the 25 countries where gay marriage is legal this can present difficulties.

I am not being snarky or glib when I say this, but this is because the US doesn't realize it is already global in every way, and ultimately answers to global pressures (whether you want to say there is already a world Empire including the States, or that the States buckle under the scrutiny of a world organisation).

Global legislation ("treaties" and trade agreements), politics, economics and culture are slowly being grafted into the world nations.

 

[hedrick]

According to the Bible that would be correct.
M-Bob

Seriously? You're saying that the Bible supports gay marriage. I'm pleasantly surprised.

 

[hedrick]

So the question really is this: Does the girlfriend of a person admitted to the USA from another country automatically get to come also? The answer is No.

But should they?

If not, why should gays who are unmarried get special treatment?

Because in much of the world they're treated differently, and the US diplomatic service is dealing with the world, not the US.

 

[FireDragon76]

That doesn't sound like a good move, even if it makes sense in theory. The situation at the moment for gay people internationally is too complicated to be forcing a choice like that on people.

 

[Albion]

Because in much of the world they're treated differently, and the US diplomatic service is dealing with the world, not the US.

When dealing with the rest of the world IN the rest of the world perhaps. Otherwise we are dealing in sophistry with this argument..

We do not change our drug laws in order to make them the same as in India or let all Arabic immigrants and visitors abide by Sharia law while they are here instead of US law, and so on.

 

[FireDragon76]

When dealing with the rest of the world IN the rest of the world perhaps. Otherwise we are dealing in sophistry with this argument..

We do not change our drug laws in order to make them the same as in India or let all Arabic immigrants and visitors abide by Sharia law while they are here instead of US law, and so on.

Isn't that more than a little undiplomatic?

 

[FireDragon76]

Domestic partnerships are still perfectly legal in many jurisdictions in the US, so this seems like a strange move.

 

[eleos1954]

Given that Trump's constituency tends to oppose gay marriage it seems a bit odd that we're forcing gay diplomats to get married:

US will only grant diplomatic visas to married couples, not domestic partnerships - CNNPolitics

The world isn't surprised when the US tries to force its own policies on the world, but gay marriage isn't something I expected Trump's folks to try and force on the world. Of course for people outside the 25 countries where gay marriage is legal this can present difficulties.

"Given that Trump's constituency tends to oppose gay marriage it seems a bit odd that we're forcing gay diplomats to get married"

Notice it also excludes domestic partnerships, that could or not include gay relationships.

Married or not married. What's their current marital status? They choose to be married or not .... nobody is or can force anybody to get married gay or otherwise.

 

[Newtheran]

so we're imposing our standards of recognizing gay marriage on others.

Actually, we're not imposing our standards on anyone. This only applies to people who want to come to the United States. Here, we get to make our own rules. Don't like them? Don't come. As far as what happens overseas? Not our circus, not our monkeys.

 

[The Barbarian]

Is there someone in the WH whose job it is to come up with innovative ideas for ways to embarrass the United States?

 

[Richard T]

Lots of other countries recognize domestic partnerships between man and women too. I personally have seen foreigners use this to their advantage to get visas in the EU. The U.S. is seeking to stop this by forbidding both hetero and gay domestic partnerships from receiving diplomatic visas. This is about tightening up immigration. Too easy to have spies posing as domestic partners and gaining entrance to the USA.

 

[The Barbarian]

Too easy to have spies posing as domestic partners and gaining entrance to the USA.

Because everyone knows that our enemies would never have a sham marriage to slip a spy into the United States.

 

[Richard T]

Because everyone knows that our enemies would never have a sham marriage to slip a spy into the United States.

Yes, one could use a sham marriage but it would leave a paper trail and multiple marriages would be questionable. Far easier for non-contractual domestic partners to be fluid and deceptive.