US Supreme Court/Petition Consideration/Bakery/Same-Sex Wedding

[Mrs.PGL]

(Ambassador hat on)
FYI (because I see you don't have a lot of posts and haven't been a member long): It is the against the rules of this website to state or imply that a Christian member is not a Christian as it considered flaming. Please edit your post, thank you!
(Ambassador hat off)

Thank you.

 

[Mrs.PGL]

So you reject Christ. I see. Well then, may God bless you. I pray you will one day have a relationship with Him.

so you are ignoring 3999 abominations.

Where?

People who commit homosexuality are also idolators.
Revelation 21:8 ESV

But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”
Revelation 22: 14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
The following really identifies them - idolators, homosexuals, sexually immoral....
1 Corinthians 6:9-11English Standard Version (ESV)
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Christ said that He would forgive and cleanse us of our sin, should we repent.

 

[SilverBear]

People who commit homosexuality are also idolators.
Revelation 21:8 ESV

But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”
Revelation 22: 14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
The following really identifies them - idolators, homosexuals, sexually immoral....
1 Corinthians 6:9-11English Standard Version (ESV)
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Christ said that He would forgive and cleanse us of our sin, should we repent.

are you trying to say that Rev 22:14 says something it doesn't say based on 1 Cor 6:9?

 

[Mrs.PGL]

are you trying to say that Rev 22:14 says something it doesn't say based on 1 Cor 6:9?

What I am saying is that 1 Corinthians and Revelation complement each other.

 

[SilverBear]

But nothing has made them a minority. They are just a group of sinners with a God defying behaviour.

Homosexuals are a minority because they are a culturally distinct group that has a shared collective identity, community, which coexists with but is subordinate to a more dominant group.

 

[Mrs.PGL]

Homosexuals are a minority because they are a culturally distinct group that has a shared collective identity, community, which coexists with but is subordinate to a more dominant group.

No. Nice hopes on your part, but they are just plain sinners - sinners in need of a saviour.

 

[SilverBear]

No. Nice hopes on your part, but they are just plain sinners - sinners in need of a saviour.

Not hopes just simple facts.

 

[Mrs.PGL]

Not hopes just simple facts.

Leviticus 18:22 - 22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 – If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.

 

[JackRT]

Leviticus 18:22 - 22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 – If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.

When scripture is read in its full context we can gain new understandings.
The acts cited above were considered as "abominations" for several reasons. The Hebrew prescientific understanding was that male sperm contained the whole of nascent life. With no knowledge of eggs and ovulation, it was assumed that the woman provided only the incubating space. Hence the spilling of sperm for any non-procreative purpose -- in coitus interruptus (Gen 38:1-11), male homosexual acts or male masturbation -- was considered tantamount to abortion or murder. Female homosexual acts and masturbation were consequently not so seriously regarded.

In addition, when a man acted like a woman sexually, male dignity was compromised. It was a degradation, not only in regard to himself, but for every other male. The patriarchalism of Hebrew culture shows its hand in the very formulation of the commandment, since no similar stricture was formulated to forbid homosexual acts between females. And the repugnance felt toward homosexuality was not just that it was deemed unnatural but also that it was considered unJewish, representing yet one more incursion of pagan civilization into Jewish life.

 

[Mrs.PGL]

When scripture is read in its full context we can gain new understandings.
The acts cited above were considered as "abominations" for several reasons. The Hebrew prescientific understanding was that male sperm contained the whole of nascent life. With no knowledge of eggs and ovulation, it was assumed that the woman provided only the incubating space. Hence the spilling of sperm for any non-procreative purpose -- in coitus interruptus (Gen 38:1-11), male homosexual acts or male masturbation -- was considered tantamount to abortion or murder. Female homosexual acts and masturbation were consequently not so seriously regarded.

In addition, when a man acted like a woman sexually, male dignity was compromised. It was a degradation, not only in regard to himself, but for every other male. The patriarchalism of Hebrew culture shows its hand in the very formulation of the commandment, since no similar stricture was formulated to forbid homosexual acts between females. And the repugnance felt toward homosexuality was not just that it was deemed unnatural but also that it was considered unJewish, representing yet one more incursion of pagan civilization into Jewish life.

Baloney. Read Leviticus 18:1 - Christ taught that homosexuality is a sin. You can try to rewrite scripture, or to change the reality of explanation by wishful thinking, but, homosexuality is a sin that the Lord will not allow into Heaven. Christ taught it is a sin. He also said that He would forgive and cleanse us of our sin, should we repent. Please don't hurt any homosexuals more than you probably have with this trash.

 

[SilverBear]

Leviticus 18:22 - 22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 – If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.

Do you adhere to all the laws of Leviticus?

 

[dentonz]

People said the same thing in the 1960s to refuse service to black people.

It's not the same thing. they were refused because of who they are. The current cases of the florist, bakery, catering services discriminating are because of the content of the service. For instance, if a dude with a red bandanna comes into a bakery and wants a cake that says F the police, should the baker be made by law to make it for them? They are not refusing them because of their skin color, but because they don't want to have anything to do with a person that wants that kind of message on their cake. What if a police officer happened to be called to the party due to a noise complaint and saw the cake, he then asks, what bakery made that cake? The baker, even if only in the officer's mind, is now associated with that group of people. The same goes with a Christian baker participating in a gay wedding. There should be no laws in a free society that force you to participate in anything that goes against your constitutionally guaranteed freedom of religion.

 

[Mrs.PGL]

Do you adhere to all the laws of Leviticus?

I don't need to. I'm not Jewish. Christ brought the morality laws into the New Testament though.

 

[SilverBear]

I don't need to. I'm not Jewish. Christ brought the morality laws into the New Testament though.

Leviticus doesn't differentiate or classify its laws.

 

[Mrs.PGL]

Leviticus doesn't differentiate or classify its laws.

No need to. Christ fulfilled the ceremonial laws and the civil laws - with Jews still practice - when He brought the moral laws into the New Testament. Homosexuality is a sin

 

[rjs330]

"The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments to heterosexuals. That doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's just that they seem to need more supervision." ~~~ Lynn Lavner

That's actually incorrect. There are 362 admonishments to EVERYONE. There are six more to homosexuals bring their total to 368.

 

[rjs330]

This is true, however Some state's anti-discrimination laws do include sexual orientation. Colorado, where this bakery is doing business, does include sexual orientation in it's accommodation law.
It would seem to me that the SCOTUS would have to decide that those state's laws are unconstitutional.

Yes which is what the supreme Court does all the time. If it does say the law is unconstitutional then all states with similar laws would be affected too. SCOTUS has interfered with states rights all the time.

 

[rjs330]

Yeah, that's called a comparison. You can't say that your comparison is not a comparison. This is about people that's not going away. You can't dehumanize gay people and think that you can erase our humanity from the discussion. We are people and we are here to stay and guess what? God loves LGBT people. Period.

Yes he does. He died for you as well to save you from ALL your sin, not just your homosexual sin. It's not like the sin of practicing homosexuality is any worse than practicing any sin. ANYONE, who practices sin will not inherit the kingdom of God. If we willfully practice sin of any kind after being redeemed there remains no more sacrifice for our sin and we will be judged and cast into fiery judgement. It doesn't matter what kind of sin it is. I think believers forget that sometimes. Practicing homosexuality is no worse that practicing fornication or lying or drunkenness or hating your brother.

But Jesus righteousness and the power of the Holy Spirit can deliver us from the sin we struggle with. It's not easy and some sins are far more difficult to overcome. It seems to.me that practicing homosexuality would be among the most difficult.

 

[rjs330]

Really? Selling a cake is persecution? That is such a disparaging remark to the millions of people around the world, Christians, Yazidi, Zoroastrians, Sufi Muslims, LGBT, and others who are actually persecuted and killed in some countries!

You make a really good point. There are levels of persecution just as their are levels of poor. The poorest of Americans would be considered wealthy in many countries of the world. Yet we still call them poor because they are by American standards. American bakers are persecuted according to American standards because they could lose their livlihood if they don't conform because of the fines and penalties assessed to them. But when you look at the rest if the world that pales in comparison to the chance of death or torture or imprisonment that believers are under in those places.

 

[rjs330]

Do you adhere to all the laws of Leviticus?

No he doesn't and that is why merely quoting Leviticus is not enough. There are some if the levitical "sins" if you will that are still maintained today and affirmed by Christ and the Apostles. While the mixing of materials is not one of them practicing homosexuality is. As is lying and stealing etc. There are even some different ones added. So merely pointing out Leviticus as the only source misses the broader picture of the New Covenant. While you are correct to challenge Leviticus as a sole source it is not the sole source. It is reaffirmed in the New Covenant. Now that being said practicing homosexuality is no more sinful than practicing ANY other sin. It's sinful but no more sinful than anything else mentioned in the NT including hating your brother.

If I hate homosexuals I am sinning just as badly as they are.